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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Fry

Arcane
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
1,922
You know, it's strange though. Nintendo, despite not really being an RPG developer, has a ton of passionate developers who put in tons of effort. It's not a perfect company, but the strikeouts are massively outweighed by the slam dunks. Why the fuck can't RPG people get their shit together?

Err... what types of RPGs are you comparing Nintendo first-party games to? AAA Sony first-party like Horizon ZD? Independent AAA like Witcher 3? Smaller independents like PoE?

I guess mostly just Obsidian, Bioware and Bethesda.

Buggy games, endless dumbing down, SJW cancer..

Nintendo has a huge amount of cash, puts out relatively few games, and rarely attempts to tackle anything of the scope of a modern RPG. Breath of the Wild is the closest they've come, and they poured a ton of resources into it.

http://nintendotoday.com/breath-of-the-wild-development/
 

Jenkem

その目、だれの目?
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
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Messages
8,892
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An oasis of love and friendship.
Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
You know, it's strange though. Nintendo, despite not really being an RPG developer, has a ton of passionate developers who put in tons of effort. It's not a perfect company, but the strikeouts are massively outweighed by the slam dunks. Why the fuck can't RPG people get their shit together?

Nintendo makes the best JRPGs tho

(xeno series)
 

Fry

Arcane
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
1,922
You know, it's strange though. Nintendo, despite not really being an RPG developer, has a ton of passionate developers who put in tons of effort. It's not a perfect company, but the strikeouts are massively outweighed by the slam dunks. Why the fuck can't RPG people get their shit together?

Nintendo makes the best JRPGs tho

(xeno series)

They do? They might publish some JRPGs, but they don't develop them.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,165
Location
Bulgaria
Chris Avellone said:
I didn’t get anything when I left Obsidian. There were no share payouts, no equity, and this was in addition to the other logistical problems around the departure – the sudden cancellation of my health insurance, problems with my 401K, errors in Obsidian’s accounting, and several existing independent contracts they refused to uphold.
Chris Avellone said:
Realizing my family issues and the debts therein, however, they did make an attempt to leverage that into a far more confining separation agreement that would remove my right to work on RPGs, and my silence on all issues that could pertain to Obsidian or any other company they were involved with or the CEO had a % in (Fig, Zero Radius, Dark Rock Industries, etc.). This included an inability to critique games I’d worked on – much of my critiques on my own games tend to be blunt, and not being able to speak to them felt unnatural to me.

The company involvement silence worried me more, however, as it meant that if anything illegal happened with any of those companies (these could include serious charges like accounting issues, silence on harassment issues with regards to employees, perjury related to company documents and payments), I couldn’t speak about the issue, even if I felt strongly against what was being revealed.

While all this is good for Obsidian's upper management and is what is sometimes considered "good business," I did feel it showed a lack of ethics.

Still, that attempt at leverage did cause me to re-evaluate aspects of my life. Realizing debt was affecting my decision, I instead focused on working as hard as possible to make up for the amount Obsidian tried to use as leverage to force a signature – and succeeded.

When that happened, I realized I was free of the situation – completely free, for the first time. Feargus and the owners had no hold on my voice, my time, and my creativity any longer. And it was great.

When they made me an offer to contract me to write for Tyranny (which might seem to be an olive branch, but it turned out to be something they needed for contractual reasons with Paradox, but no one had ever communicated it to me), these were the reasons I refused – I didn’t wish to be part of Obsidian’s upper level development process and their pipelines any longer, as these processes were coming from a bad place, and it showed.

Also, realizing there was no restitution for the issues mentioned, I made a promise to myself that nothing I would do would ever cause Feargus and the owners any further financial gain. If my silence was that important to them, then there's no need to be silent because that right hadn't been signed away. Simply put, I like the developers at Obsidian very much, I work and correspond with many of those who are there or have left, and I would work with the developers again. I do feel upper management at Obsidian has serious flaws that need to be addressed, and I stand by that statement.
Just remember guys. Obsidian wanted Avellone to be banned from cRPGs for life and used the cancer of his mother as a leverage to silence him. That's the type of studio you are supporting with your money.
I laugh in your face dear sir.
200.gif
 

Fry

Arcane
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
1,922
>300 developers

Okay, so it's a budget thing?

That's obviously part of it, but not entirely. It's a Japanese company, so very low turnover compared to western devs. Lots of experienced people with a long history on Nintendo products, a coherent company vision, and consistent leadership.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
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Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Just remember guys. Obsidian wanted Avellone to be banned from cRPGs for life and used the cancer of his mother as a leverage to silence him. That's the type of studio you are supporting with your money.

Wake me up when you find a game studio with more than a hundred employees that treats those employees like human beings. Fucking over founders who leave the company is the oldest trick in the silicon valley playbook. There's nothing uniquely horrible about this. Obsidian offered Chris some kind of payday in exchange for signing a noncompete agreement; he chose not to take the deal. Should Obsidian have just given him some money with no strings purely in the interest of fairness? THAT would be unusual behavior. Businesses rarely reward people for leaving unless they're contractually required to.

tl;dr It's silly to return Deadfire over this. nearly every double or triple A studio is run by a scumbag like Feargus. If you don't want to reward bad CEO behavior, you're going to be stuck playing RPG Maker titles for the rest of your life.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
1,301
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Obsidian offered Chris some kind of payday in exchange for signing a noncompete agreement; he chose not to take the deal. Should Obsidian have just given him some money with no strings purely in the interest of fairness? THAT would be unusual behavior. Businesses rarely reward people for leaving unless they're contractually required to.
You mean, they were using his name on public to sell a product while fucking him at the same time, and using the cancer of his mother as leverage to force on him a noncompete for life? Since when noncompete are perpetual? All this with one of the best developers and writers in the genre? Of course not. Why should I care. That's completely irrelevant.

tl;dr It's silly to return Deadfire over this. nearly every double or triple A studio is run by a scumbag like Feargus. If you don't want to reward bad CEO behavior, you're going to be stuck playing RPG Maker titles for the rest of your life.
There was never any reason to waste money on this bad BG clone to begin with, even less reason to spend time criticising this garbage. The idea that the only alternatives to these studios are RPG maker games suggests that you are either ignorant or disohnest, probably both. You joined 2017, after all. I won't waste my time with an ignorant dumbfuck like you.
 

Fry

Arcane
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
1,922
I lived in Japan for awhile - turnover is high in shitty/poorly run places. The idea that you go work at a firm and there for lifeu is nonsense. I just emailed one of my Japanese friends, he's telling me Nintendo is generally well known for good pensions, and little-to-no crunch time.

Fair. The company-man-for-life thing hasn't been universally true in Japan for awhile, but turnover is still much lower than American companies. And it's true that the top development guys at Nintendo have been there for decades.

No surprise they don't do much crunch. Lots of money and a commitment to releasing games when they're done. The only large western game dev I can think of with a similar culture is Blizzard, which is pretty impressive considering they're owned by Activision these days.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
You mean, they were using his name on public to sell a product while fucking him at the same time, and using the cancer of his mother as leverage to force on him a noncompete for life? Since when noncompete are perpetual? All this with one of the best developers and writers in the genre? Of course not. Why should I care. That's completely irrelevant.

There was never any reason to waste money on this bad BG clone to begin with, even less reason to spend time criticising this garbage. The idea that the only alternatives to these studios are RPG maker games suggests that you are either ignorant or disohnest, probably both. You joined 2017, after all. I won't waste my time with an ignorant dumbfuck like you.
Ah, calling someone ignorant at same time while degrading man's opinion for joining in 2017 (not to mention of your registration data on this account, Jan 18 2018, lol). Look, I have no clue what you both argue about right now, but you just lost your internet "fight" by using "age argument". It's just shows that your opinion have no basis and irrelevant. And don't start childish "you too joined in 2017 too" conspiracy, put you tin toil hat down and admit, that you used bad argument.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
294
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Obsidian offered Chris some kind of payday in exchange for signing a noncompete agreement; he chose not to take the deal. Should Obsidian have just given him some money with no strings purely in the interest of fairness? THAT would be unusual behavior. Businesses rarely reward people for leaving unless they're contractually required to.
You mean, they were using his name on public to sell a product while fucking him at the same time, and using the cancer of his mother as leverage to force on him a noncompete for life? Since when noncompete are perpetual? All this with one of the best developers and writers in the genre? Of course not. Why should I care. That's completely irrelevant.

tl;dr It's silly to return Deadfire over this. nearly every double or triple A studio is run by a scumbag like Feargus. If you don't want to reward bad CEO behavior, you're going to be stuck playing RPG Maker titles for the rest of your life.
There was never any reason to waste money on this bad BG clone to begin with, even less reason to spend time criticising this garbage. The idea that the only alternatives to these studios are RPG maker games suggests that you are either ignorant or disohnest, probably both. You joined 2017, after all. I won't waste my time with an ignorant dumbfuck like you.

Try a little less harder and maybe a little bit more of a fuck will be given...maybe.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
Just remember guys. Obsidian wanted Avellone to be banned from cRPGs for life and used the cancer of his mother as a leverage to silence him. That's the type of studio you are supporting with your money.

Wake me up when you find a game studio with more than a hundred employees that treats those employees like human beings. Fucking over founders who leave the company is the oldest trick in the silicon valley playbook. There's nothing uniquely horrible about this. Obsidian offered Chris some kind of payday in exchange for signing a noncompete agreement; he chose not to take the deal. Should Obsidian have just given him some money with no strings purely in the interest of fairness? THAT would be unusual behavior. Businesses rarely reward people for leaving unless they're contractually required to.

tl;dr It's silly to return Deadfire over this. nearly every double or triple A studio is run by a scumbag like Feargus. If you don't want to reward bad CEO behavior, you're going to be stuck playing RPG Maker titles for the rest of your life.

So basically our choices are "big money capitalist assholes" or "sjw millenials who will be outed as rapists within the next 5 years"
Look, maybe I asking too much, but why in your eyes indie developers = sjw? I mean it's logically for sjw to infiltrate big companies, since they can spread their ideology everywhere. Not another way around.

That was a merger, and while I;m fully aware that "merger" can mean "we just fucking ate you" like what happened with CCP
I don't know what you mean "happened with CCP", but I wanted to clear some things to you:
1) Not CCP, but USSR in English
2) USSR (CCCP) was fallen by internal reasons, by MANY internal reasons. This have nothing to do with "merger".
3) "We are fucking ate you" situation happens shortly after some fail on market, while Blizzard managed to sell one game for years.

am I the only one that can't see shit? Need a bigger pic
Trust me, you didn't miss anything. At least anything worth to broke your eyes in attempts to see it.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
1,301
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Ah, calling someone ignorant at same time while degrading man's opinion for joining in 2017 (not to mention of your registration data on this account, Jan 18 2018, lol).
This is my second account. I actually joined in Jan 21, 2015, child. If we were talking about other contexts I would ignore membership period as an ad hominem fallacy, but it makes a big difference in this case. The reason is simple: the more time you spend here, the more you will be exposed to cRPG analysis and its intricacies, the roles of developers and their contributions, etc. Posters here care about cRPGs to such extremes of autism that you will never find in the internet. There are a lot of connoisseurs here. Things that seem obvious to you in the first month will become impossible to sustain after a period. You will see. I'm not really one of experts of this place by a mile and I still have a lot to learn, but that doesn't make my ignorance bad as yours.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
294
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Ah, calling someone ignorant at same time while degrading man's opinion for joining in 2017 (not to mention of your registration data on this account, Jan 18 2018, lol).
This is my second account. I actually joined in Jan 21, 2015, child. If we were talking about other contexts I would ignore membership period as an ad hominem fallacy, but it makes a big difference in this case. The reason is simple: the more time you spend here, the more you will be exposed to cRPG analysis and its intricacies, the roles of developers and their contributions, etc. Posters here care about cRPGs to such extremes of autism that you will never find in the internet. There are a lot of connoisseurs here. Things that seem obvious to you in the first month will become impossible to sustain after a period. You will see. I'm not really one of experts of this place by a mile and I still have a lot to learn, but that doesn't make my ignorance bad as yours.

Dude, go outside, have a drink with some friends, break a couple of laws, and hook up with a barely decent-looking girl. You taking this internets shit a little too seriously.
 

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