RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Average Manatee]

https://brisbaneacfe.org/library/occupational-fraud/ghost-employees-frauds-payroll-frauds/

WHAT ARE GHOST EMPLOYEE FRAUDS?
A ghost employee is someone recorded on the payroll system, but who does not work for the business. The ghost can be a real person who knowingly or not is placed on the payroll, or a fictitious person invented by the dishonest employee. The fraud attacks the payroll system with false employees.

The aim of the fraud is to have a wage paid to the ghost and collected by the dishonest employee. This is done by entering the ghost employee into the payroll system. The fraud does not require an accomplice but, depending on how wages are paid, an accomplice may make the fraud easier to conduct as it will eliminate any need to convert the payment from the ghost to the dishonest employee.

This applies if he hired a fake person and collected the paycheck himself, or if he hired a real person without them knowing and collected their paycheck himself. Him hiring a real person to do a real job, no matter how ridiculous or minuscule, and then paying that person normally is legal.

TL;DR if he hired his wife to stay at home and smoke weed all day, that would be legal. This is California, no one cares about weed right?

That said sure, tip off the IRS that something is fishy. Any real business should prepare for and survive an audit.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I don't think Chris has asked for, or needs, anyone to act against Obsidian on his behalf. Don't think that was the goal he had in mind when he posted here.

Than that is by far the most naive thing ever.

You think "MCA turns to the Codex for help in accusing Obsidian of fraud" is a better narrative? Wasn't he also saying he wishes all the employees in there the best? I dunno, just seems like a weird move to me. Did he really want (the Codex) to cause a shitstorm in there that could damage regular employees?

 

[Mustawd]

Him hiring a real person to do a real job, no matter how ridiculous or minuscule, and then paying that person normally is legal.

It's not exactly a classic case of ghost employee fraud, but if there are multiple instances of this and the owners find out it can very well fall under fraud IMO.

If you're a shareholder and you find out the CEO is paying ppl to do nothing, and you have no idea of this and there is no real justification then that's pretty much fraud in my book. I mean it's different if all the owners are ok with this. Sure.

EDIT: Also if you read my blurb, it says the person who is the ghost employee can or cannot be aware of it and it's still fraud. I doubt that Feargus officially hired these ppl if ghost fraud is there. He'd likely just put their names on the payroll docs and thas it. If you cna prove they're not actually employees...then well...


Who fucking knows. I don't know anything. But it's still a possibility is what I'm saying.

 

[Imoens pet]

I don't think Chris has asked for, or needs, anyone to act against Obsidian on his behalf. Don't think that was the goal he had in mind when he posted here.

Than that is by far the most naive thing ever.

You think "MCA turns to the Codex for help in accusing Obsidian of fraud" is a better narrative? Wasn't he also saying he wishes all the employees in there the best? I dunno, just seems like a weird move to me. Did he really want (the Codex) to cause a shitstorm in there that could damage regular employees?

My point, was that it is naive to spill the beans on a past employer and not expect any consequences. If not some random guy on Codex, then someone else will have taken notice.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

As (allegedly) seen on Obsidian.

Tell me the evil wife story.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

Been lurking since page ten and made an account just because of this thread.

Speaking as someone who's not only been gratuitously fucked by previous employers and who still holds Avellone's work in high regard, I'm hoping everything works out for the better.

And hey, what better way to come out as an alt-right euronazi than post here, right friends?

 

[ColonelTeacup]

This is going to the IRS today:

don't forget to tell them about Infinitron's biased reporting

Wait, does Feargus, his wife, or both of them go to prison?

 

[Average Manatee]

Him hiring a real person to do a real job, no matter how ridiculous or minuscule, and then paying that person normally is legal.

It's not exactly a classic case of ghost employee fraud, but if there are multiple instances of this and the owners find out it can very well fall under fraud IMO.

Doubtful. You can totally get hired by a company and do nothing at all. That's literally what politicians do, it's basically a legal bribe. Why do you think there are all these senators and governors sitting on the board of directors of major companies? You think they do work? Their work consists of cashing the check they get.

This is doubly so considering that Obsidian is not a public company where shareholders put some restrictions on you. Feargus can probably do whatever he likes. He forcibly de-ownered Chris, flat out swiping some millions of dollars his share of the company would be worth, just because a piece of paper typed up by him said he could do so. The only way I could see something is if Feargus accidentally did something illegal while trying to hide the salary of these, uh, "shadow employees" from the rest of the owners.

 

[Mustawd]

This is going to the IRS today:

don't forget to tell them about Infinitron's biased reporting

Wait, does Feargus, his wife, or both of them go to prison?

There's no evidence of anything. Who fucking knows at this point.

 

[Goral]

Not sure how IRS works in USA but I doubt they can just arrest someone without proof.

Oh ffs. The ignorance.

https://www.delawareonline.com/stor...mployee-mubarak-pleads-guilty-theft/74799128/

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Ghost-Temp-Workers-at-Hospital-Arrested-for-Fraud-129399478.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_c86066f5-96a4-57b8-bac6-693861d01bd3.html

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...s-jailed-in-ghost-employee-scheme-1727615.php

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdpa/pr/upmc-claims-manager-admits-paying-846k-two-ghost-employees

https://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/0...ce-ghost-employee-convicted-on-fraud-charges/

https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/...ested-for-alleged-fraud-and-money-laundering/

http://fox43.com/2016/02/03/woman-creates-ghost-employees-to-steal-700000/

https://www.greeleytribune.com/news...ore-than-200000-according-to-arrest-warrants/


I kind of feel bad. Because I'm literally not even trying. It's like seriously playing basketball against 2 yr olds.

These are totally different situations like working in some fake school or some hospital. Read the shit you're posting instead of googling "ghost employee frauds" and dumping first results.

You think the writing happens in notepad? There's version control with dates and accounts, there are task management systems where tasks are assigned, discussed and turned in, with dates, accounts, various notes left for colleagues, there's various internal messaging, and the list goes on. Collaborative work is not done in a vacuum.

Since FU never hid the fact that his wife is on a payroll (since it's public information and every Obsidian employee knows about it apparently) he must have paper trail that would protect him from IRS. If he went the "purple prose" route you can be sure he would have all the documents needed.
And yes, his wife could have been paid for writing and write it much later and because no one besides CEO would see it there would be no way to prove it was done after the fact.

(other employees have spotted this as well and brought it up to me after I left since they saw her on spreadsheets

 

[Imoens pet]

Honestly you guys' should be upset at Chris for coming here and airing their dirty laundry like that. Not at some guy doing his civic duty by reporting this shit. It is what it is, but since this is the internet, this shit is entertaining.

 

[Mustawd]

Doubtful. You can totally get hired by a company and do nothing at all. That's literally what politicians do, it's basically a legal bribe. Why do you think there are all these senators sitting on the board of directors of major companies?

You keep saying hired. Being on someone's payroll is not the same as being hired. Are there other hiring docs? Is there an offer letter? Does the person have a company email? Do they have a building security card code? Is there ANY evidence that this person is part of obsidian beyond being on the payroll?

 

[Mustawd]

Since FU never hid the fact that his wife is on a payroll

Um what? Show me where this is said. People noticed it because her name was on an excel spreadsheet. Doesn't seem Feargus is a fucking genius CFO at this point. So it's not a stretch that he just oops and fucked up and included her because it was a report dump from the payroll system.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

I'm saying, that if it were true, would both go to prison, or just one? Or I wonder if they'd offer one a plea deal to help take down the other. Would hurt to be betrayed by your wife/husband. I wonder if one would offer to take a plea deal, before even being asked.

 

[Mustawd]

There's no proof anything happened. I'm just saying it's in the realm of possibilities of all parallel universes. I dunno. I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Imoens pet]

There's no proof anything happened. I'm just saying it's in the real of possibilities of all parallel universes. I dunno. I'm not a lawyer.

Nice way of covering your ass

 

[Average Manatee]

Doubtful. You can totally get hired by a company and do nothing at all. That's literally what politicians do, it's basically a legal bribe. Why do you think there are all these senators sitting on the board of directors of major companies?

You keep saying hired. Being on someone's payroll is not the same as being hired. Are there other hiring docs? Is there an offer letter? Does the person have a company email? Do they have a building security card code? Is there ANY evidence that this person is part of obsidian beyond being on the payroll?

Why do you think any of that is needed? You think the government polices whether you get a company email or not? Unless they weren't reporting income to the IRS it don't matter.

The law isn't an open book of vague words you can throw at people till something sticks. Things have a very specific meaning. Ghost employee fraud is something where employees defraud the business. Feargus can't defraud the business, he is the business. The government only starts caring if Feargus is defrauding the government.

 

[Septaryeth]

I don't think Chris has asked for, or needs, anyone to act against Obsidian on his behalf. Don't think that was the goal he had in mind when he posted here.

Than that is by far the most naive thing ever.

You think "MCA turns to the Codex for help in accusing Obsidian of fraud" is a better narrative? Wasn't he also saying he wishes all the employees in there the best? I dunno, just seems like a weird move to me. Did he really want (the Codex) to cause a shitstorm in there that could damage regular employees?

My point, was that it is naive to spill the beans on a past employer and not expect any consequences. If not some random guy on Codex, then someone else will have taken notice.

Chris seems to be pretty confident with what he's doing. Either he's betting on Obsidian too much of a wuss to even attempt to refute these claims, or that he's certain he got enough resources and evidences to make the claim "recognized" by court. Once in court it'll even do more damage because investors and contractors would consider twice before they throw money at Obsidian.

Either way he get to humuliate the higher ups in Obsidian publicly. Oh sweet sweet revenge.

But I don't know if he count on someone on the codex of taking the initiative for him.
There's always a chance that you got everything ready only have them crashed and burned at the last moment by some gung-ho jumping the gun.

 

[Imoens pet]

I don't think Chris has asked for, or needs, anyone to act against Obsidian on his behalf. Don't think that was the goal he had in mind when he posted here.

Than that is by far the most naive thing ever.

You think "MCA turns to the Codex for help in accusing Obsidian of fraud" is a better narrative? Wasn't he also saying he wishes all the employees in there the best? I dunno, just seems like a weird move to me. Did he really want (the Codex) to cause a shitstorm in there that could damage regular employees?

My point, was that it is naive to spill the beans on a past employer and not expect any consequences. If not some random guy on Codex, then someone else will have taken notice.

Chris seems to be pretty confident with what he's doing. Either he's betting on Obsidian too much of a wuss to even attempt to refute these claims, or that he's certain he got enough resources and evidences to make the claim "recognized" by court. Once in court it'll even do more damage because investors and contractors would consider twice before they throw money at Obsidian.

Either way he get to get back at the higher ups in Obsidian publicly. Oh sweet sweet revenge.

But I don't know if he count on someone on the codex of taking the initiative for him.
There's always a chance that you got everything ready only have them crashed and burned at the last moment by some gung-ho jumping the gun.

Well then, if that is the case, maybe don't come to a public forum and reveal your cards, eh?

 

[Mustawd]

Why do you think any of that is needed? You think the government polices whether you get a company email or not? Unless they weren't reporting income to the IRS it don't matter.

Yes. The government doesn't necessarily police this, but there are actual guidelines on what constitutes an employee and what does not. For instance, if you are using company equipment, primarily use their facilities, and some other guidelines, then you are considered an employee. If not, then you could be classified as an independent contractor. Regardless, there are guidelines on what constitutes employment. Again, read the blurb. A person can be considered a ghost employee even if they're in o the whole thing and it's coordinated. What you're saying means proving a ghost employee exists is impossible because you can always say "b-but she's a chief hug officer".

If you have proof that this isn't the case, I'm all ears bro.

 

[Average Manatee]

Why do you think any of that is needed? You think the government polices whether you get a company email or not? Unless they weren't reporting income to the IRS it don't matter.

Yes. The government doesn't necessarily police this, but there are actual guidelines on what constitutes an employee and what does not. For instance, if you are using company equipment, primarily use their facilities, and some other guidelines, then you are considered an employee. If not, then you could be classified as an independent contractor. Regardless, there are guidelines on what constitutes employment. Again, read the blurb. A person can be considered a ghost employee even if they're in o the whole thing and it's coordinated. What you're saying means proving a ghost employee exists is impossible because you can always say "b-but she's a chief hug officer".

If you have proof that this isn't the case, I'm all ears bro.

My googling is stronger than yours

https://brisbaneacfe.org/library/occupational-fraud/ghost-employees-frauds-payroll-frauds/

Ghost Employees Frauds – Payroll Frauds
What is Occupational Fraud?

Occupational fraud is fraud committed by an employee on an employer in the course of their employment. They are more common and cause more financial loss to businesses than frauds committed by third parties. As employees will continue to work at the business, they will generally try to hide these frauds permanently, meaning that occupational fraud can be committed over an extended period of time.

What are ghost employee frauds?
A ghost employee is someone recorded on the payroll system, but who does not work for the business. The ghost can be a real person who knowingly or not is placed on the payroll, or a fictitious person invented by the dishonest employee. The fraud attacks the payroll system with false employees.

The aim of the fraud is to have a wage paid to the ghost and collected by the dishonest employee. This is done by entering the ghost employee into the payroll system. The fraud does not require an accomplice but, depending on how wages are paid, an accomplice may make the fraud easier to conduct as it will eliminate any need to convert the payment from the ghost to the dishonest employee.

Feargus is the employer. Can't defraud yourself.

Only possible issue is if Feargus is somehow breaking whatever contract he has with the other owners of Obsidian, but considering how he effortlessly got rid of Chris I'm guessing he's entirely up to snuff on that front and has basically unlimited power.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

Chris: to divert a bit from the drama, has there been any standout gaming stories that have really stuck with you in recent years? How do you feel about the way contemporary gaming handles narratives?

 

[Mustawd]

Feargus is the employer. Can't defraud yourself.

Feargus can defraud his fellow owners though.

But look, that's an extremely good argument you're bringing up. Being CFO/CEO of the company makes it very difficult to prove anything unless he literally hired his entire family and missapropriated funds in a very obvious way.

For me the percentages for anything illegal to actually happen are like .5%. Unethical if wife is on the payroll doing nothing? Sure. Shitty way to run a business? Sure. Illegal? Extremely unlikely. Goral just pissed me off with his stupidity tbh.

 

[Latro]

Only possible issue is if Feargus is somehow breaking whatever contract he has with the other owners of Obsidian, but considering how he effortlessly got rid of Chris I'm guessing he's entirely up to snuff on that front and has basically unlimited power.

never sign a business napkin at a cheesecake factory

 

[Goral]

CEO doesn't have to explain his actions to others (at least at Obsidian seeing how Chris Avellone was treated), FU can always say that she worked from home or whatever so others wouldn't know what she was doing anyway.

you fucking retard

But look, that's an extremely good argument you're bringing up. Being CFO/CEO of the company makes it very difficult to prove anything

:D
Never change mustard.