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Total War: Three Kingdoms - the next major historical Total War title set in ancient China

vonAchdorf

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Fantasy Team – pre-production
The Fantasy Team has begun pre-production for their next game, and it’s taking them to some dark, dark places. We fear they may never return – not with minds and souls intact, at least.

We’ll update you with more details when it’s safe to approach them.

So as expected, it's Chaos.
 

Deflowerer

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Those fucks better have Warring Era expansion for Three Kingdoms planned or else...
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
Oh right the blog post: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/three-kingdoms-romanticised-history

The default game will be based on the romanticized version of the history inspired by Romance of the Three Kingdoms (heroes can kill hundreds of soldiers alone, events based on the novel), but there will be Classic Mode for those who prefer a "historically authentic " experience (strategy based on troops, events based on the historical text Records of the Three Kingdoms).

Total War: THREE KINGDOMS – Working with Romanticised History

Total War: THREE KINGDOMS is the next major Total War historical game and is set in the titular period of ancient China. It launches in Spring 2019.

Inspired by Luo Guanzhong’s 14th Century historical novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, this epic strategy game follows the dramatic lives of near-mythical warring lords and their retainers in 2nd to 3rd century China. But true to the series’ legacy, the game will also feature a Classic Mode that offers a much more grounded recreation of the period for players who prefer a historically authentic Total War experience.

Over to Janos Gaspar, game director for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS.


So first thing’s first: why Three Kingdoms China?

Janos: It’s packed with drama! The period is brimming with tales of brotherhood, rivalry, treachery, civil war, and conquest, and that makes it the perfect setting for a historical Total War game. Plus our community have been asking for a Total War set in China for years, so it’s a natural next step. Ultimately though, the clincher is the individual bravado and personalities of the characters involved in this period. There’s just so much we can do with that from a gameplay perspective, to the point where characters are very much the cornerstone of the game: their interactions, friendships, rivalries and personalities drive the campaign game like never before. We’re supporting this with a host of new campaign systems – but more on that soon.

It’s a thrilling period, and its stories have been endlessly told and retold over the centuries. Those retellings are still going strong today and it’s an important part of modern culture in China and the far east even now. The modern interpretation of the Three Kingdoms period is a far more romanticised version of events than you might find in the history books.

How does this popular or romanticised view of events differ from the history books?

Janos: The popular modern view of these events is formed around Asian media, which largely draws on Luo Guanzhong’s 14th century epic. Although based on history, the events of the period in the Romance are pitched in vivid narrative detail and packed with drama, flavour, and explosive deeds of an almost superhuman nature. For a more realistic view of the period, we look to Chen Shou’s 3rd century text, Records of the Three Kingdoms, which offers a much more down-to-earth account of the period with lists of army compositions, tax levies and such.

As a western studio retelling stories of such cultural importance in much of Asia, we have to be sensitive when handling the source material in Total War: THREE KINGDOMS. In many respects, we have to hold ourselves to as high a standard for cultural authenticity as we do for historical accuracy.

Sounds like a challenge…

Janos: It is, but we want to launch a game that’s both historically accurate and culturally authentic. Total War: THREE KINGDOMS will be based on the romanticised history by default, but there’ll also be a Classic Mode option before you start a campaign that makes the experience closer in execution to past Total War historical titles.

How does Classic Mode differ?

Janos: A big difference is how these iconic heroes behave on the battlefield. By default, we adhere to the romanticised view: these characters can hold their own against hundreds of rank-and-file warriors. They’ll appear as single character units and fight like the heroes from Luo Guanzhong’s epic. In Classic Mode, they’ll appear in battle the way you might expect a classic Total War general to do: they’re only human, and will march into battle at the centre of a bodyguard unit.

In short: by default, characters in Total War: THREE KINGDOMS take centre stage in battle, helping to turn the tide with their flamboyant Wushu martial arts or strategic prowess. But Classic Mode focuses more on historical troop manoeuvres, where victory is defined by superior army composition and battle tactics.

Any other big changes?

Janos: We’ve put tons of effort into faithfully recreating the major events of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms: these events can and will occur during the course of a campaign. However, as always with the Total War sandbox, we’re giving the player the power to write their own stories. There’s a rich level of narrative detail that draws from the Romance, but how these events play out depends very much on the choices you make and therefore how your individual story unfolds. In Classic Mode, the historical Records of the Three Kingdoms text will form the basis for these narrative events.

Historical authenticity is clearly important for this title – what steps are you taking you ensure you achieve that?

Janos: We’re working with numerous consultants to ensure both historical and cultural authenticity, one of whom is renowned historian Rafe De Crespigny. He’s helping us ensure all the historical aspects of the game are as authentic as we can make them. He’s the author of many of the go-to academic texts that outline the events of the Three Kingdoms period and was our first choice as a historical consultant. We’re delighted with the amount of accuracy and insight he’s brought to the project. His expertise has provided us with as authentic a view of the events of this period as possible.
 

Deflowerer

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Nice, Rafe de Crespigny is probably one of the most renowned experts on the Three Kingdoms period in the Western academia. I guess Wu will be the strongest state then, since Crespigny is a Wu fanboy. :D

Having both the literary and historical "mode's" is actually really cool, and it's something I've brainstormed about for my own superhypothetical game project, but I hope it's not too superficial in this case. It's not only that the historical characters in ROTK have incredible martial prowess, but personalities and actions attributed to them are different as well, even if in subtle ways.

Hopefully those lazy fucks at KOEI start sweating now.
 
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LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
Previews, in-engine screens, and Cao Cao art:

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lnKZmVd.jpg
OoG1guT.jpg
bn3PISo.jpg
FzjhmVh.jpg

"5 big changes coming to Total War: Three Kingdoms":
https://www.pcgamer.com/5-big-changes-coming-to-total-war-three-kingdoms/

Dean "Jump Dash" Takahashi pursued Lu Bu.

"Total War: Three Kingdoms hands-on — I pursued Lu Bu, and won in single combat":
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/07/...ands-on-epic-battles-and-single-combat-duels/

"Hands on with the romantic battles of Total War: Three Kingdoms":
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-romantic-battles-of-total-war-three-kingdoms

"Total War: Three Kingdoms Brings Together History and Fantasy For a Franchise First":
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/total-war-three-kingdoms-e3-2018-preview

"TOTAL WAR: THREE KINGDOMS E3 2018 PREVIEW":
https://www.cgmagonline.com/2018/06/07/total-war-three-kingdoms-e3-2018-preview/

 

tabacila

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Nov 2, 2011
Messages
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Oy vey there is waaay too much fantasy in this and you can bet your ass the 'romanticized' version of the game is going to receive the most attention from CA.
 

Jugashvili

管官的官
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Codex 2013
It was pretty much inevitable that they'd go with the SGYY rather than the SGZ if only for the popular characters and blatant pro-Shu bias but I was hoping they'd keep it a bit more grounded in reality t b q h. Also the duels look retarded and gimmicky.

lel Sow Sow Loo Boo and CRP
 

Beowulf

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I think that they try to emulate the wuxia movies atmosphere with the duels, so in that context they look ok. Plus, it gives the people responsible for the combat sync animations some field to work in, hopefully not leaking that shit into main battleline combat.

And yeah - "sow sow" ...
 

tabacila

Augur
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Nov 2, 2011
Messages
326
Lol that commentary. I just got some cavalry and the perfect use for them is charging the front of some spearmen hurr durr. FFS, even for the romanticized version this is too much.
Also collisions are shit with spearmen hit by heavy cavalry just swivel in place and infantry hit by other infantry gets thrown 10 meters away.
 

Fedora Master

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You can thank the "Hurr charges don't work like in Med2" crowd for those overly dramatic charges between infantry I'd say.
 

fantadomat

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I don't have problem with the romanticised version of the three kingdoms. Still Lu Bu loosing is far fetched fantasy! The problem with those people is that they never change their retarded systems and just double down on them. It is just that the devs lack any talent.
 

vonAchdorf

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While some in the comments describe it as epic sieg battle, it really looks like a small skirmish. From Chinese warfare, I expect huge armies with hundreds of thousands of troops.
 
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While some in the comments describe it as epic sieg battle, it really looks like a small skirmish. From Chinese warfare, I expect huge armies with hundreds of thousands of troops.

Isn't it pretty much accepted that Chinese have always massively inflated their claims and that armies and battles were roughly 1/5th-1/10th or so of their supposed size?

That said I'd love to see armies of 50k rather than 2k. But that would require reducing the model quality along with improving path finding so that larger units don't behave like shit.
 

Jason Liang

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Think of it like Star Wars.

Wei is the Empire. Cao Cao is Darth Vader, and Yuan Shao is Grand Moff Tarkin. Lubu is Darth Maul (who is defeated by Aanakin/ Cao Cao). Sima Yan is Kylo Ren.

Shu is the Rebellion, lead by three heroes - Liu Bei (Leia/Han), Guan Yu (Luke) and Zhang Fei (Chewbacca). Zhuge Liang is the brains, so he's Admiral Ackbar Thrawn except on the Rebel's side.

And Wu are the Romulans.

Or use the MtG Portal 3 Kingdoms designations:

White - Shu
Blue - Wu
Black - Wei

Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx
 
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LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
"In Total War: Three Kingdoms, Heroes unlock new units to recruit": https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-three-kingdoms/total-war-three-kingdoms-heroes-unit-recruitment

"Here's how Total War: Three Kingdoms mechanises Chinese social philosophy": https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-three-kingdoms/total-war-three-kingdoms-guanxi

'Guanxi' is a concept in Chinese culture that's hard to translate. 'Connections' and 'relationships' just about scratch the surface of what it means: there is an emphasis on implicit mutual obligations, reciprocity, and trust. The concept has roots in Confucianist philosophy, and remains a central idea in Chinese society today.

Total War: Three Kingdoms will reflect this in what sounds like the deepest character system in the series to date. Characters will have personality traits and social connections, all of which will affect their value to you as a leader, and their happiness within your faction.

That's according to lead designer Simon Mann and game director Janos Gaspar, who were speaking with PCGamesN at E3 earlier today.

"One of the things we realised very early on is we can't do the period justice without characters being at the forefront of the game," Mann says. "If you read either The Romance or the Records of the Three Kingdoms, which are two of our core sources, you'll know that it's all about the characters. The Records themselves are a list of people and what they had done, and it just shows how important people are - be they great heroes or evil villains, they're at the core of what makes this period so interesting."

Mann cites the example of the great strategist Cao Cao, who has taken a leading role in the game's marketing so far.

"We want you to know who Cao Cao is. You're in his shoes, and his personality traits will match our reading of him and how he acts in the novel and in the Records. The idea is every character is born with their personality, right? It's kind-of in you at birth, you've got a fate, it's deterministic for you, and you're discovering it as you travel through the great mystery that is life."

That journey will play out in Three Kingdoms as your faction and its characters fight their way across the region. And, as you do so, each of your characters is "discovering people, getting to know them, and they're forming friendships and rivalries with one another," Mann says. "We're calling the system guanxi, which is this core Chinese cultural concept of social interaction and interpersonal relationships."

"According to guanxi there are multiple facets of a relationship," Gaspar says. "You have the feminine relationship, you have the brotherly friendship, you have the master and subject - that is more administrative, it's how you place yourself in the world - you have enemies, people you don't like.

"These form everyone's life, and while in previous Total War games everyone was just a tool in your hand, just a pawn, we thought it would be interesting to have characters' personalities matter. You have to reason with them, you have to understand them to some extent - you have to look who they are, and sometimes make a decision based on what they want or what they can offer you."

"Previously you would hire characters because you'd think: 'ah, this is a good warrior. That's why I'll bring him to my faction'," Gaspar says. "But now, you almost look at the CV of the character when you're hiring: 'this is not a good warrior, but he has good friends, that might be very handy in the future'. So it gives way more layers, way more colour to all the characters and your decisions."

"And this is all happening dynamically," Mann adds. "People are making friends and rivalries throughout the campaign as it's going on. There are some people who will just never get along - Lü Bu and Xiahou Dun, for instance, they're not really friends at any point." That's understandable - Xiahou Dun lost his left eye in battle against Lü Bu, though he reportedly styled it out by pulling out the arrow that had hit his socket and eating the eyeball off it, like a kebab.

So he and Lü Bu will never get along: "Losing an eye would make you a bit irritated!" Mann says. "But that's the cool thing, it's about these dynamics and how they interact, so characters aren't just pawns on a board, they're individuals with needs and desires. And whether they're happy or not in your faction is something you now have to pay attention to, and build upon."

To get a sense of how complex these interpersonal relationships can become, Creative Assembly tells us that there will be "11 iconic warlords" in the finished game, each with their own playable faction - Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Sun Jian have been announced so far. Beneath them will be at least two lesser tiers of character, Heroes and Generals, each of which will presumably tie into the complex social web of guanxi.

You can wishlist Three Kingdoms on Steam. Three Kingdoms was recently delayed out of autumn this year and is now due to release in spring 2019.
 

Aqualung

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To get a sense of how complex these interpersonal relationships can become, Creative Assembly tells us that there will be "11 iconic warlords" in the finished game, each with their own playable faction - Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Sun Jian have been announced so far. Beneath them will be at least two lesser tiers of character, Heroes and Generals, each of which will presumably tie into the complex social web of guanxi.


Sun Quan would be a more sensible choice than his father Sun Jian, IMO. In any case, I want to play it as 赤兔馬, I would feel really oppressed otherwise.
 

fantadomat

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To get a sense of how complex these interpersonal relationships can become, Creative Assembly tells us that there will be "11 iconic warlords" in the finished game, each with their own playable faction - Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Sun Jian have been announced so far. Beneath them will be at least two lesser tiers of character, Heroes and Generals, each of which will presumably tie into the complex social web of guanxi.


Sun Quan would be a more sensible choice than his father Sun Jian, IMO. In any case, I want to play it as 赤兔馬, I would feel really oppressed otherwise.
You want to play as red rabbit horse?
 

Aqualung

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To get a sense of how complex these interpersonal relationships can become, Creative Assembly tells us that there will be "11 iconic warlords" in the finished game, each with their own playable faction - Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Sun Jian have been announced so far. Beneath them will be at least two lesser tiers of character, Heroes and Generals, each of which will presumably tie into the complex social web of guanxi.


Sun Quan would be a more sensible choice than his father Sun Jian, IMO. In any case, I want to play it as 赤兔馬, I would feel really oppressed otherwise.
You want to play as red rabbit horse?

Red Hare, muh friend.
 

fantadomat

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To get a sense of how complex these interpersonal relationships can become, Creative Assembly tells us that there will be "11 iconic warlords" in the finished game, each with their own playable faction - Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Sun Jian have been announced so far. Beneath them will be at least two lesser tiers of character, Heroes and Generals, each of which will presumably tie into the complex social web of guanxi.


Sun Quan would be a more sensible choice than his father Sun Jian, IMO. In any case, I want to play it as 赤兔馬, I would feel really oppressed otherwise.
You want to play as red rabbit horse?

Red Hare, muh friend.
Well i want to play as Lu Bu,will ride you well my friend ;) .
 

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