Ridiculous exploits in RPGs

[DraQ]

I started out with a spear-using lizard with no armor

That's a surprisingly good combination, because spear is universal pwn-them-all device as long as you keep your distance. Argonians are fast by default and no armour means less encumbrance.

It's still bad you haven't played it more, while far from being balanced, Morrowind offers surprisingly good world, and lore, cool exploration and atmosphere. Playing different characters can be interesting as long as you stick with your character concept and class rather than trying to become jack of all trades. Of course, avoiding trainers like plague and keeping difficulty slider at max won't hurt - this isn't oblibian where max difficulty makes each battle similar to trying to dstroy a tank with a spoon.

 

[MisterStone]

Yeah, I know... for some reason, though, I like a game that forces me to use good char dev strategy (not necessarily metagaming) to succeed. Like ADOM or Nethack. Or Fallout, or even TOEE. I guess this can be a problem though, since there is a thin line between character building and metagaming. Very few games make char building actually crucial to the game.

 

[Relayer71]

Thieving in Arcanum was pretty much one big exploit. As you pointed out no one was able to recognize their own merchandise. I'm guessing firearms in Arcanum didn't have serial numbers.

a plague of FO1 and FO2 as well

True, very true. Guess some developers just can't learn.

Well that's slightly more realistic than Oblivion's system where you can only sell stolen merchandise to your fence - and worse, when you go to prison the guards automatically know what's stolen so it gets confiscated.

Oh wait, we're talking about RPGs, right? Never mind.

 

[Kavax]

In some instances it makes sense for shopkeepers not to recognize their merchandise. How do you tell a stimpack or a red potion apart anyways?

 

[crufty]

in linley's dungeon crawl, i always thought mummy necromancer's were a bit of an exploit. Spell casting makes you hungry, mummies are immune to hunger. never played long enough to get to the end game, but early game pretty easy.

 

[LCJr.]

I was reading the evil rewards thread and another FO2 exploit occurred to me. Well even if it's not technically an exploit it's pretty unbalancing. Go to the Den as soon as you get directions and kill either Flick or Tubby. I'd usually off Tubby and his friends. Usually nets you a leather jacket or armor, 10mm SMG, 10mm Pistol, Desert Eagle, ammo, drugs and money with no ill effects. Even though Tubby has several guns all he does is try and punch you. Instantly you go from spear/zipgun armed tribal to well equipped with money to burn.

Now as for thieving bit. I personally think it's silly to argue realism in a fantasy game but we do like to argue here right? Besides I can't get to sleep.

So of the two examples given(Oblivion and Arcanum) as much as it pains me to say it Oblivion may be the more realistic of the two. Assuming a city has some kind of organized law enforcement and you're captured in the town where you committed the crime. Chain of events goes something like this.

Citizen is robbed. Citizen reports crime. Report is made listing stolen items. Your character is arrested doing whatever. Your character has items similar to ones reported missing. Citizen comes down identifies items and they're returned to rightful owner.

Now if you're captured in a town 50 miles away they shouldn't know jack about the stolen items unless it something major like a major like an art theft.

Now in Arcanum you have a society at the Victorian level. Firearms and some other manufactured goods should have serial numbers. Keep in mind serial numbers are more to help the manufacturer keep track of stock and who the items are sold to. In the specific case of Arcanum it's extremely ridiculous that you can rob a shopkeeper at night and then sell him back his own inventory. Don't you think your character showing up the morning after the robbery with exactly the same items that were stolen should ring a few alarm bells?

Assuming some paralell with Earth in both the Arcanum and traditional fantasy setting quite a few items should have makers marks or otherwise be distinguishable. Whether it's a mark a craftsman stamps on all his works or just a unique flavor of local beer. Sticking with the fantasy theme say merchant X gets all his swords from the Bob the smith in Dorkwood. Bob is a craftsman and adds some unique touch to swords that identify them as his work and removal of his trademark would also be instantly apparent. In the night merchant X is robbed of 2 short, 1 long and a two-hander made by Bob. Next morning your character shows up in town trying sell 2 short, 1 long and two-hander obviously made by Bob. Should be pretty obvious you're either the thief or working with them.

Like I said at the start debating realism in a fantasy game is silly. The real point is both the Arcanum and Oblivion examples are poor game design. NPC's shouldn't be completely stupid but they shouldn't have physic powers either.

 

[Erzherzog]

Citizen is robbed. Gyuards instanly enter the shop/ Your character has items similar to ones reported missing. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect your 200 dollars.

 

[Redeye]

Oh, everyone seems to have forgotten:



Chaining simulacrum/projected image to make a clone army in BG2.



Oh yes oh yes

 

[Korgan]

Speaking of BG2, don't forget casting Time Stop and shapeshifting into a Mind Flayer. The most horrible, irresistable, nightmare-inducing thing that could ever happen to your enemies.

 

[DraQ]

Morrowind handled stolen goods better than OB and Arcanum, except for the fact that stolen items stacked with ones that weren't stolen effectively infecting them with 'stolen' status.

 

[Norfleet]

Like I said at the start debating realism in a fantasy game is silly. The real point is both the Arcanum and Oblivion examples are poor game design. NPC's shouldn't be completely stupid but they shouldn't have physic powers either.

This falls into the nature of computers. Either a computer knows something, or it does not. So when you're making this, you're coding between "merchants always recognize their own stuff" and "merchants never recognize their own stuff", unless you want something crazy like "merchants randomly recognize stuff", which just gets weird. I mean, describe what algorithm you would use to identify something like this? This is fundamentally the same weakness that stealth and invisibility have vs. AIs: Either the ability to become invisible is a form of godmode, as the AI simply fails to react to you when invisible, or the AI has psychic awareness of your presence anyway and invisibility is meaningless. To do anything else would involve simulating a human thought process when dealing with something that has gone invisible, without simultaneously giving the AI psychic awareness.

 

[RGE]

You could have the merchant's intelligence and perception play a part in the chance that they'll recognise their own merchendise, and their general reaction to the PC could determine whether they'll let their suspicions slide or if they'll confront the PC, or report the PC to the local law (which would be safer if the PC is armed and dangerous). Not that there's much of a point to do this in Arcanum, since the problem with merchants go much deeper in that game. Then again, who knows how much our modern day scammers can get away with when it comes to stealing merchandise? Credit card fraud seems to accomplish something very similar, and they often get away with it too, apparently.

 

[RK47]

Bluff skill check?
Those thieves without Bluff skills would have to head to the fencer (who takes a cut) or risk getting caught selling their merchandise in the open market. (but gets more gold out of it)

 

[Redeye]

Bluff skill check?
Those thieves without Bluff skills would have to head to the fencer (who takes a cut) or risk getting caught selling their merchandise in the open market. (but gets more gold out of it)

I wanted to steal all silver and melt it down.

Then sell the ingots when the price of silver went up due to replacement demands.

but, no

 

[Lemunde]

Vanish/Doom

 

[Pegultagol]

Can the 'rest to heal and recharge spells' in Bioware RPGs be regarded as a possible exploit of a faulty design? Or it is just not really ridiculous enough or understood so universally that there is no point in mentioning it at all.

 

[Lemunde]

Can the 'rest to heal and recharge spells' in Bioware RPGs be regarded as a possible exploit of a faulty design? Or it is just not really ridiculous enough or understood so universally that there is no point in mentioning it at all.

Given the amount of combat in those games it's pretty much a necessity for many builds. I guess if you're really hard core you could get through the game using it sparingly. Like it or not, the game's designed around it. It's not an exploit.

 

[deuxhero]

Assuming some paralell with Earth in both the Arcanum and traditional fantasy setting quite a few items should have makers marks or otherwise be distinguishable. Whether it's a mark a craftsman stamps on all his works or just a unique flavor of local beer. Sticking with the fantasy theme say merchant X gets all his swords from the Bob the smith in Dorkwood. Bob is a craftsman and adds some unique touch to swords that identify them as his work and removal of his trademark would also be instantly apparent. In the night merchant X is robbed of 2 short, 1 long and a two-hander made by Bob. Next morning your character shows up in town trying sell 2 short, 1 long and two-hander obviously made by Bob. Should be pretty obvious you're either the thief or working with them.

That runs into the issue of why you couldn't convice anyone that while Merchant X may have been the original owner, there are more then a dozen reasons you could have found them on the body of a bandit.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I think Pegultagol is right. It is an exploit. You can fight carelessly, and get your party hurt badly but all you need to do is run away, and you get back all your health. It's basically rewarding the player for playing badly. And he can waste his best spells, and then get them back immediately.

Bioware's solution to this was that in KotOR, you always regenerate but do so very slowly. It was a fairly reasonable thing to do. Though they brought another exploit. You fully heal up when you level up. Meaning that you can avoid levelling up until a hard fight, and if he pounds you badly, you can fully heal back to higher points, and face him as a stronger character.

 

[Aothan]

The reason I stopped using Mages or magic predominant classes in rpgs is because they always become way too dominant late-mid to late game. Yes they should increase in power, no they should not make the game easy.

Alchemy has always been broken in Morrowind and Oblivion, which is a massive shame because it is an excellent skill. Im not sure if anyone even ever made a 'balanced Alchemy' mod.