Place restriction in RPGs

[hpmons]

(I wasnt sure what else to call it...)

Do you think its better when games have specific partitions to spread out the plot, e.g the acts/chapters used in Neverwinter Nights or Baldurs Gate, where travel to new places is restricted until you complete certain parts of the main quest?
Or when its a little more subtle, not using the word "chapter" etc, but still restricting areas until you solve something, like Planescape - somewhat valid reasons for not being able to go to places straight away - physical barriers such as the pregnant alley, or not having the right 'key', e.g to get into Ravel's maze. In a way this feels less contrived to me, more natural.
Else there are games where movement is completely free, like Fallout 2 or Morrowind. This can lead to a somewhat game-breaking experience - in Fallout 2 if youre careful (and know where youre going) you can get straight to San Francisco and finish the game quickly I think (I havent tried this myself). Morrowind can be completed in under eight minutes, completely bypassing all of the plot. Realistically though, a new player wouldnt do this, as they wouldnt have enough information.

Which way do you think is better, or are both of them good under the right circumstances?

 

[Shota Shernokavich]

the way arcanum does it is best.

 

[Thrasher]

It's also much more natural.

 

[JarlFrank]

the way arcanum does it is best.

 

[mondblut]

the way arcanum does it is best.

...when it forces you to complete half of a main quest in order for a location of a second largest city on a continent to appear on the map? Uh huh.

Completely free movement all the way for me. If somebody can't stop metagaming, they break the game for themselves, not for myself.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Free movement with minour restrictions concerning places that are important later in the main quest (As in, free-roaming like in Morrowind, but you can't just go to the cavern of the incarnate right after you create your character). I just love exploration in my RPGs, and the less possible restrictions, the better.

 

[Uz0rnaem]

As much as I love Arcanum, I prefer the Fallout approach to plot linearity and area restrictions. Of course, you should address the game-breaking issue by designing the endgame locations with endgame characters in mind (I'm talking about a plausible and "natural" implementation, like having stronger enemies and higher skill checks in those areas, not a pop-up that says "YOU MUST BE LEVEL 50 TO ENTER THIS CITY"). Arcanum did a decent job, but it always bugged me how you couldn't explore the world on your own. It made sense for some of the hidden locations, but the fact that you couldn't stumble upon a huge ass city like Tarant by yourself, because you had to "unlock" it first just never made any sense to me.

 

[RK47]

the issue with arcanum is really discovering major towns on the map is a questionable 'barrier' to entry.

Caladon is a major town. Ashbury is a midsized town. Stillwarer, despite being mentioned in the early game does not appear on the map nor the gamer has any chance to ask for directions . It's quite frustrating for people who want to chase leads around are forced to work with a narrow path that the devs intended.

 

[Shota Shernokavich]

All the barriers in Arcanum can be removed by simply editing a .mes file

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

the way arcanum does it is best.

...when it forces you to complete half of a main quest in order for a location of a second largest city on a continent to appear on the map? Uh huh.

Caladon can be reached via Gorgoth Pass if you really want to go there, it's not really hidden.

Arcanum did a decent job, but it always bugged me how you couldn't explore the world on your own. It made sense for some of the hidden locations, but the fact that you couldn't stumble upon a huge ass city like Tarant by yourself, because you had to "unlock" it first just never made any sense to me.

Tarant can be found, it's not a hidden location, as well.

Caladon is a major town. Ashbury is a midsized town. Stillwarer, despite being mentioned in the early game does not appear on the map nor the gamer has any chance to ask for directions . It's quite frustrating for people who want to chase leads around are forced to work with a narrow path that the devs intended.

Stillwater can be found too (I always open it before the BMC). Anyway, I believe, that the point of semi-hidden locations in Arcanum is that so the player is getting fresh content throughout the whole play through. If all locations would be open from the start, it may get boring.

 

[Uz0rnaem]

Tarant can be found, it's not a hidden location, as well.

How? Other locations, like Torg's Altar, pop up as you pass by them, but that never seemed to work with Tarant.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Tarant can be found, it's not a hidden location, as well.

How? Other locations, like Torg's Altar, pop up as you pass by them, but that never seemed to work with Tarant.

Torg's Altar has a huge radius of visibility (15 sectors), Tarans has 0, so you have to find the exact location. It's not that hard though. The coordinates are 973, 1026 if you want to try.

 

[RK47]

it still...doesn't make sense Drog. Perhaps you can change the variable of the towns 'visibility' in your patch.

How can I miss a huge civilization ahead of me but notice an altar in the middle of a forest is quite puzling.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

How can I miss a huge civilization ahead of me but notice an altar in the middle of a forest is quite puzling.

Yeah, it may sound dumb, but it's a gameplay related thing, I suppose, since other cities don't have radii of visibility, as well. You will find the cities by following the game's plot anyway, but you may miss the rare places (such as altars) completely, so they made these places easier to stumble upon.

 

[Uz0rnaem]

The coordinates are 973, 1026 if you want to try.

Yep, it worked. Thanks. I really didn't know this was possible, but like RK47 said, it's still pretty illogical, even though I understand why they did it this way.

 

[Thrasher]

Yeah, the radii shoudl be the same for consistency's sake.

 

[Warden]

Complete free exploration - not very known areas should be unlocked through quests, by talking to npcs for example. End boss area should be discovered after completing a few hard critical quests. Simple.

 

[Occasionally Fatal]

I think I prefer wide open freedom with no unnatural restrictions, as mentioned earlier "you must be X level to go here". Instead, force players through certain areas by sheer practicality: go here first before going there or youll get hammered by higher level dudes or by traps or events you werent prepared to face. Of course, this has to be complemented with NPC dialog or whatever in order to give fair warning so its not ALL trial and error, though a little wouldnt be too bad. C&C baby!

 

[FluffyKitten]

stfu

 

[mondblut]

Caladon can be reached via Gorgoth Pass if you really want to go there, it's not really hidden.

Except you have no clue where to even begin looking for it. And due to some mind block can't ask anyone, even though they mention Caladon in every other conversation. It did make some sense in Fallout with its highly isolated communities where people mostly have no clue what's going on beyond a nearby hill, but is utterly ridiculous in a thriving victorian civilization of Arcanum. You can fly a zeppelin, travel over railroads, read newspapers, but can't get any clue where to be begin looking for the second largest city of the land until permitted to by the main plot halfway through the game.

By the way, for the record - can you stumble upon, say, Tarant while wandering inside the gameworld (not over the map), or the world outside special locations is procedurally generated?

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

By the way, for the record - can you stumble upon, say, Tarant while wandering inside the gameworld (not over the map), or the world outside special locations is procedurally generated?

Yes, you can, the world is continuous. So, essentially it's possible to go anywhere if you know the precise location. Quest specific places won't show up on the map though, but it's still possible to find them.

 

[Kavax]

I like the way Fallout/2 did it. If you know the name of the location, you just ask a well-travelled NPC to mark it in your PIPBoy and that's it.

 

[RGE]

You can fly a zeppelin...

Didn't that zeppelin lift off from Caladon or Roseborough? Given that it was headed for Tarant and passing over the mountains near Shrouded Hills, that's the only thing that makes sense. Maybe it's even mentioned somewhere? And if that is the case, Caladon should probably have been marked on the map from the very beginning.

I prefer the way Wastelands did it. All the visible towns were availible to the brave and the suicidal, and then there were a few hidden locations that had to be unlocked, as well as a doors that couldn't be opened without the right key cards. Completely natural, if you disregard that punks and gangers are so much tougher and/or better armed in some towns than in some others. For no apparent reasons.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

When you start the game, you should have whole world(Or most of it) open to you in under two hours.

 

[Mor]

Fallout did it well, Arcanum did not do it well, both for story reasons. Generally there's no point in withholding major landmarks when a game can't adapt the world map for alien or retarded PCs.