Combat Mission: Shock Force 2

[Plisken]

Battlefront recently had an aneurysm, flushed their old website and are relaunching with a new website that has no sign of their autism simulators for sperg boomers, and instead is focusing on their most commercially successful series, combat mission.

and with that, news that their next title, a sequel to 2007's CM shock force, will be shortly arriving. What can we expect? More of the same old, because battlefront never learns and is convinced that theirs is a hill to die on. I'll still buy it anyway because I actually liked the setting of shock force and love more infantry centric gameplay which not a single other title in this genre seems to think is a thing.

That said, its always disappointing that after having being in this fucking business for over 2 decades as they proudly claim, these nerds can't/won't learn new tricks. They insist their "niche" market is what keeps them a small developer, but thats simply not true given the success of graviteam tactics. what keeps them a small developer is the kind of obnoxiously obtuse game design they keep rolling out. This is one developer you could say could actually benefit from attempting to be more mainstream and accessible.

anyway lets scrounge up some screens from their beta lapdogs:

But anyway, nothing groundbreaking here. If you saw/played combat mission black sea, this is exactly the same except set in syria and asymmetrical conflict.

 

[Dayyālu]

I seriously come from the same side as you, after Graviteam it has been very difficult to take BF's offering seriously.

Furthermore, from what I see the great "innovations" they publicize are minimal changes to the TOE and graphics. What the fuck? Why they didn't redo the game from the ground up with some basis in reality (what has, like, truly happened in Syria)? Throw in the Russkies, the Israelis, moderate Headcutters, ISIS, Iranians, militias, US SOF, Turkroaches etc. and you get a shitton of factions!

Instead we get GERMANS AND DUTCH?

What the fucking fuck?

 

[TripJack]

lol from what i hear battlefront still hasn't fixed the broken 4.0 engine 'upgrade' patches that came out over a year ago which btw in keeping with battlefront tradition were not free

 

[Plisken]

I seriously come from the same side as you, after Graviteam it has been very difficult to take BF's offering seriously.

Furthermore, from what I see the great "innovations" they publicize are minimal changes to the TOE and graphics. What the fuck? Why they didn't redo the game from the ground up with some basis in reality (what has, like, truly happened in Syria)? Throw in the Russkies, the Israelis, moderate Headcutters, ISIS, Iranians, militias, US SOF, Turkroaches etc. and you get a shitton of factions!

Instead we get GERMANS AND DUTCH?

What the fucking fuck?

it seriously looks like them porting CMSF1 and all its dlc factions up to CMBS's standards and nothing else

I say this because for an autistic TO&E simulator, some of these screenshots display a surprising lack of accuracy and questionable dating. For example, the "c9" minimi in that pic of the canuck soldiers, is lacking a C79 optic which has been standard fixture on C9s since about 2005 or perhaps earlier, and since this is a game that otherwise looks to be set in 2018 or "near future", that C79 would probably be an A2 model with an telescoping buttstock, vertical foregrip shorter barrel. instead it looks to be a much older model. Point of all this autistic hair splitting? I think this is that cheap: a cash in bringing their old game up to current engine standards, literally a "2.0" instead of a sequel. Which would further explain the "why" behind germans, canucks, brits etc: these were all pay dlc for CMSF1.

 

[Dayyālu]

After skimming their forums, I had a chuckle:

+ yes, a game set in "current times" with ISIS, Turkey, Russians and up-to-date TOE should be the first thing you think about to get new people in. They even have the models from the Ukraine game.
+ Graviteam Tactics is a legit competitor with a shitton of innovations, a easier and somewhat "realistic" approach despite Real Time and they should copy it.
+ Mapsizes were kinda shit, they are right.

Apparently for them this is "funny", without realizing everything that what's here should be in a goddamn new game you are paying 60 bucks for.

Truly Battlefront's buyers are beyond redemption.

Point of all this autistic hair splitting? I think this is that cheap: a cash in bringing their old game up to current engine standards, literally a "2.0" instead of a sequel. Which would further explain the "why" behind germans, canucks, brits etc: these were all pay dlc for CMSF1.

It's worse: from the forums they won't update anything in tech beyond 2008, because effort. Nothing of the past ten years of battlefield and COIN evolution will be in, because effort.

Whatever.

 

[Galdred]

You forgot to add their ridiculous stance when it comes to pricing, DRM (But it was from long ago. Do they still insist on installing these on your PC?) and modding ("we don't do wargame creation kits"). Actually, I could get behind the pricing argument, even though Slitherine/Matrix and Graviteam have shown it was utter bullshit, but the modding argument is really nonsensical:
Having a moddable game never stopped Bethesda from selling a ton of DLC. Modders will usually make getting DLC required to load the mod anyway...

 

[some funny shit]

Battlefront is the worst software company in the world. I despise them. They went from cool guys to some extreme butthurted princesses(hardcore DRM, paid patches, banning all critics etc). Once they got so butthurt at their forum they blocked all connections from Poland.


Still I love old Combat Mission (BO,BB,AK) games.

 

[sparq_beam]

I seriously come from the same side as you, after Graviteam it has been very difficult to take BF's offering seriously.

The problem with the Graviteam games for me is that they're not We-Go like the CM games. I only played the three original CMs, but being able to rewind and review the actions from various angles is really great. I don't know why no one else uses this system.

I can't really enjoy complex real time games because you never have time to properly enjoy the action. I spend most of the time in these games zoomed out and giving orders, e.g. with the Eugen and the Total War games.

 

[Plisken]

Asymmetrical conflict is a flawed prospect for a game such as this, using typical total war metrics (i.e destroy the enemy or secure X location). Mostly because in any combat scenario, the BLUFOR team will always, always, short of gamey contrivances, be hilariously overpowered compared to the insurgents, just as they are IRL.

It can work, but you need to come up with different objectives, like making the "acceptable casualties" threshold much lower, or more complex long campaign metrics which battlefront willl not do since their campaigns are really just a series of battles with some unit pool carryovers rather than any real choice and consequence factors.

The other problem is IRL the crucial factor in success of guerilla operations is having element of surprise and attacking weak points. I've never seen a wargame do this properly, chiefly because you cant really be "ambushed" when you know there is enemies on the gamefield.

Its funny on the forums they poke shit at the people who want "special forces" content instead of commanding battalions, those people actually have a clue - it is far more challenging, higher stakes and interesting to lead a small team or platoon in enemy dominated territory than it is to have a mechanized battalion just sit on the edge of a town and rape it to hell and back with air support and artillery before sending in the APCs to mop up the hopeless survivors.

 

[sser]

You forgot to add their ridiculous stance when it comes to pricing, DRM (But it was from long ago. Do they still insist on installing these on your PC?) and modding ("we don't do wargame creation kits"). Actually, I could get behind the pricing argument, even though Slitherine/Matrix and Graviteam have shown it was utter bullshit, but the modding argument is really nonsensical:
Having a moddable game never stopped Bethesda from selling a ton of DLC. Modders will usually make getting DLC required to load the mod anyway...

Even Slitherine took awhile to come around. I still remember Iain on the forums being like "no guys Steam is just a fad" back in 2010 or 2011, the same era where a random crackerjack bullshit strategy game would show up on the platform and be drowning in sales. And Battlefront has the most marketable type of wargame which is one in presentable 3D with very cinematic tank combat. They're just stubborn fools.

 

[Galdred]

You forgot to add their ridiculous stance when it comes to pricing, DRM (But it was from long ago. Do they still insist on installing these on your PC?) and modding ("we don't do wargame creation kits"). Actually, I could get behind the pricing argument, even though Slitherine/Matrix and Graviteam have shown it was utter bullshit, but the modding argument is really nonsensical:
Having a moddable game never stopped Bethesda from selling a ton of DLC. Modders will usually make getting DLC required to load the mod anyway...

Even Slitherine took awhile to come around. I still remember Iain on the forums being like "no guys Steam is just a fad" back in 2010 or 2011, the same era where a random crackerjack bullshit strategy game would show up on the platform and be drowning in sales. And Battlefront has the most marketable type of wargame which is one in presentable 3D with very cinematic tank combat. They're just stubborn fools.

Indeed, which is all the more baffling that both they and Shrapnel games stick to this stance after Slitherine made a 180 about it.
Grognards too usually have more games than what they can play.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

speaking of Graviteam, I really like games in of this genera, although I did not really like Combat Mission (I liked Matrix game of this type better, even though the graphics were shit, the platoon based orders system was much more realistic IMO, compared to Combat Missions version of moving each vehicle like it is an independent unit)...

anyhow, about 6 months ago I bought Graviteams Tunisia game, but have not really played it yet. The main reason was because the interface and camera seemed to make the game really hard to manipulate and understand. Does it get easier after playing awhile? I like complicated games, its just their GUI and the symbols it uses are not very intuitive and I had a hard time even using the camera to get a general lay of the land not to mention giving orders...

I keep coming back to this game though because of all the praise it gets. Do I just need to stick with it longer?

 

[Cholo]

Graviteam is operational + tactical layer (and does this combo better than most), but lacks a lot of articulation that CM offers. LoS tools are really nice as are the tanks, but you're stuck playing RTwP.

For all of battlefront's flaws, there is nothing like CM. Once you accept that, their gay business quirks seem a lot less off-putting.

also why tf is a tactics game in the strategy forum you gay retard

 

[Alienman]

lol from what i hear battlefront still hasn't fixed the broken 4.0 engine 'upgrade' patches that came out over a year ago which btw in keeping with battlefront tradition were not free

What did 4.0 break?

 

[TripJack]

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/125553-cmrt-tacai-engine-comparison/
infantry scatter immediately when coming coming under HE fire, even if they're veteran units in good cover

 

[Dayyālu]

I keep coming back to this game though because of all the praise it gets. Do I just need to stick with it longer?

I'll be brutal: if you want to learn Graviteam-style games the easy way, get Operation Star and fire up Shield of the Prophet. Wait, why I am suggesting to you a DLC campaign set in modern times instead of the stock WW2 setting?

'cause in Shield of the Prophet modern troops mean everyone gets a radio, troops react faster, the combat is more tank-centric and the tank themselves aren't the slow-ass bastards they were in WW2 RL (every Graviteam player knows the pain of Lend-lease british tonks SLOOOOOOOOOWLY proceeding through snow). Fire support is more widespread and the Soviet campaign is easy and you are well-supplied. Don't expect to have a huge quality advantage tho on the Iranians: you are not the Germany Army Group, you don't have T-64s, you get T-55s and T-62s to the Iranian M60s.

(also, similar to Steel Armor, the most weirdass game Graviteam ever got out. It's a tank sim on Operation Star's engine with some weirdass campaigns, like the Iran-Iraq war. Worth a try if you can find it for.... hmmm.... "free").


Also, Tunisia has no Itas. It's seriously the only thing that made me angry.

 

[mbv123]

Still I love old Combat Mission (BO,BB,AK) games.

I played the BO and liked it though I wish BB and AK were available on GoG.
Can't find them anywhere and the versions that you can find on seven seas are outdated and lag on modern PCs.

 

[Alienman]

I really like the Combat Mission games. My main two wishes for the franchise is that they expand to Steam or GoG with the newer games, and maybe sometimes have a sale. And the main thing, a real campaign with a map, bit like Graviteam games or the Close Combat series. I have really tried to get into Graviteam games, but for some reason I fail every time. Think it's just too stressful and infantry is worth shit in their games.

 

[sser]

I really like the Combat Mission games. My main two wishes for the franchise is that they expand to Steam or GoG with the newer games, and maybe sometimes have a sale. And the main thing, a real campaign with a map, bit like Graviteam games or the Close Combat series. I have really tried to get into Graviteam games, but for some reason I fail every time. Think it's just too stressful and infantry is worth shit in their games.

They put their toes in the water with GOG and CM1. What they should do is put up an early 2.0 game and see how that does, like Normandy or Fortress Italy. Problem is these platforms do not let them nickel-and-dime nearly as well. I myself quit the series after they started charging for what were in essence patches. Bringing that business approach to platforms where free games and great deals are all of the place is probably not the best idea.

 

[Alienman]

Yeah maybe not, but then it could also open to a whole new audience, people that don't know about their games and only buys games on Steam/GoG. Which hopefully would mean they don't have to nickel and dime for patches (which I agree is shit, and reason I don't buy new games there either).

 

[some funny shit]

Yeah maybe not, but then it could also open to a whole new audience, people that don't know about their games and only buys games on Steam/GoG. Which hopefully would mean they don't have to nickel and dime for patches (which I agree is shit, and reason I don't buy new games there either).

Battlefront went full retard/insane long time ago and no one understands their reasoning anymore. I heard some rumors they have big problems with coders (main programmer quit and they cant replace him?), that would explain lack of real progress and why they cant fix their shit for years.
Fuck them seriously.


Armored Brigade is coming and it looks million times better than anything recent from Battlefront.
http://www.armoredbrigade.com
Developer is a really cool guy and game/engine has a great future.


Legendary Gary Grigsby is working on new Steel Panthers!

Gary is spending a lot of his time on the ai and I know his goal is to provide a strong ai that exceeds the ai in Steel Panthers. As for C&C, I’m betting you’ll be impressed with the command system and the way the interface will show it to you. Erik, Richard and the programmers are doing great work. Steel fans will be happy.

Meanwhile you can play this beauty:

 

[Plisken]

Armored Brigade is coming and it looks million times better than anything recent from Battlefront.
http://www.armoredbrigade.com
Developer is a really cool guy and game/engine has a great future.

Well it doesnt look better than CM because CM is the only wargame on the market that fully features detailed terrain and infantry simulation. Infantry is treated as an afterthought in absolutely every other game in this market which is the only reason i persist with the combat mission series.

I'm waiting with baited breath for something that can replace it, but there doesnt seem to be anything on the horizon.

 

[some funny shit]

Well it doesnt look better than CM because CM is the only wargame on the market that fully features detailed terrain and infantry simulation.

What do you mean?

Armored Brigade simulates infantry combat just right. Its not as detailed(and buggy) as in Combat Mission x2 ofcourse. You dont have single soldiers, but whole teams as in CMx1.


But it still has great details: if you look closer you can even notice single dead bodies in pools of blood - upper left corner.

Can you have such huge maps in CM?

In many areas AB is far superior to CM.

 

[Plisken]

Well it doesnt look better than CM because CM is the only wargame on the market that fully features detailed terrain and infantry simulation.

What do you mean?

it is very hard to have good infantry simulation without 3D terrain, not to mention the subtle factors that you can only get with 3D that also apply to armored combat. AB looks great but its just not the same thing. It looks like close combat on steroids and with more layers.

 

[tsiforb]

They released a demo for this last week.