Why the hell aren't there more "space opera" / futuristic CRPGs?

[daveyd]

Because fucking nobody except me backed Final Equinox.

 

[TemplarGR]

Most companies in the current industry are focused on one out of 4 things:

1) Fortnite/MOBA/lightweight FPSes Twitch fodder F2P online games for the masses

2) Pixel art Indies that are cheap to make and can make you filthy rich even if you sell like 100k copies

3) AAA games from the big 3 and a few other companies that are especially suited for microtransactions, like Destiny, Shadow of War, Battlefront, Battlefield, etc.

4) The occasional AAA exclusive game on consoles from first and second parties.

Other than that, we may occasionally get a better quality indy or a AAA that is not complete shit like for example Witcher 3, but in general this is the industry currently.

Space opera games are expensive to make and since there are not many well known universes to set them up into, they are a huge bet financially. So naturally most develoeprs and publishers won't make that bet.

Sad but true.

 

[The Old Kiwi]

Try Starflight 1 and 2. Best space opera CPRGs I've played.
Countdown to Doomday is also good, if you like the old pulp model of the Solar System, and tactical combat.

After these two oldies there's pretty slim pickings.

There were two "Buck Rogers" games in SSI's Gold Box series, and both were a lot of fun. (Yes, I'll bet someone else has remembered those two since yesterday, somewhere deeper in the thread!)

 

[daveyd]

Try Starflight 1 and 2. Best space opera CPRGs I've played.
Countdown to Doomday is also good, if you like the old pulp model of the Solar System, and tactical combat.

After these two oldies there's pretty slim pickings.

There were two "Buck Rogers" games in SSI's Gold Box series, and both were a lot of fun. (Yes, I'll bet someone else has remembered those two since yesterday, somewhere deeper in the thread!)

Countdown to Doomsday is one of SSI's Buck Rogers games.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Space opera games are expensive to make and since there are not many well known universes to set them up into, they are a huge bet financially. So naturally most develoeprs and publishers won't make that bet.

Sad but true.

Thinking like this is what is killing us. Look dudes that is a totally false statement. A huge bet financially?

HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? ALL OF THE MASS EFFECT GANGBUSTER ALIEN FETISH FAN ART?

Isometric is what is the issue. They think DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS when they hear RPG and turnbased. They think Final Fantasy. Why? Morons. These are the guys that said "FPS=immersion" which I might add was just name dropped by the CD Projekt guys. Sad shit but true. Gotta drop the buzzwords for the PR fags.

Why isnt there a Star Gate videogame, of any genre? Seems like a no brainer. Werent they funded by the Military, for advertisement or something? A shooter would be obvious choice but a BG style rpg would be cool. Heck there's even a Farscape rpg thats isometric party based. But no Star Gate.

The MMO got shitcanned iirc.

 

[daveyd]

I'm not really sure whether Star Traders qualifies as "space opera", but it is certainly low budget. The second ST game "Frontiers" which raised $61K on Kickstarter was just released out of early access. Final Equinox will be a low budget space opera RPG; (I think the KS could have gone much better if they'd done more promotion beforehand).

I'd bet the market for space opera RPGs is smaller than medieval / fantasy RPGs, but it exists.

 

[Shin]

'what is a space opera cRPG'? DISCUSS!!!1

 

[JarlFrank]

Why would space opera games be more expensive than fantasy games? I'd say asset-wise they might even be a bit cheaper since environments and clothes tend to be cleaner than in fantasy worlds and you need less detail and clutter to make areas look believable.

Also if you have a spaceship section in the game, space is super easy to make. Black nothingness with plenty of starts in the background, couple of asteroids, couple of moons and planets.

Much, much less cost in assets than if you had to decorate a fantasy forest with trees, grass, mushrooms, fallen logs, flowers, maybe even little animated bugs etc...

 

[:Flash:]

I think that it's just the way certain genres became married to certain settings for historical and other reasons.
It's like asking "Why aren't there more fantasy space shooters? There's only Magic Carpet and nothing else." And then a discussion starts on whether Crimson Skies should be counted as another Fantasy Space Shooter.

The Space Opera genre became married to Space Shooters, The Fantasy Genre became married to CRPGs. And players are conservative people and that's why it stayed that way.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I think that it's just the way certain genres became married to certain settings for historical and other reasons.
It's like asking "Why aren't there more fantasy space shooters? There's only Magic Carpet and nothing else." And then a discussion starts on whether Crimson Skies should be counted as another Fantasy Space Shooter.

The Space Opera genre became married to Space Shooters, The Fantasy Genre became married to CRPGs. And players are conservative people and that's why it stayed that way.

Interesting thought and would explain, why in the earlier, more experimental phases, there was more diversity.

 

[tritosine2k]

Because it needs aesthetics squared /plausibility and they deal in 'fuck-all' instead of said prerequisite.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

For some reason, I hate the space opera/sci fi setting for RPGs/Video games, unless it's Star Wars. I think it's because games generally fail to capitalize on the cool part of sci-fi (the mystery of the unknown), and just turn it into Diablo-type slaughter, but with the much worse combat of laser guns. At least Star Wars has the whole Jedi/light saber thing, which makes the combat cooler, and lends it some philosophic/religious overtones, as opposed to laser run'n'gun as in Mass Effect.

 

[Dorateen]

I think it's time we had an MST3K computer role-playing game.

Party gets shot into space by mad scientists, and have to view cheesy movies between intergalactic adventures.

 

[Darth Canoli]

fantasy space shooters? There's only Magic Carpet and nothing else

Fantasy space shooter ? Magic Carpet ? Are we talking about the original game with you building your fucking castle, swallowing "mana" and getting more and more spells to get rid of the guy who had the misfortune of riding a carpet wearing red instead of blue ?

Fantasy, why not ? But space ?
As for fantasy shooters, there is a shitload of them.

 

[:Flash:]

fantasy space shooters? There's only Magic Carpet and nothing else

Fantasy space shooter ? Magic Carpet ? Are we talking about the original game with you building your fucking castle, swallowing "mana" and getting more and more spells to get rid of the guy who had the misfortune of riding a carpet wearing red instead of blue ?

Fantasy, why not ? But space ?
As for fantasy shooters, there is a shitload of them.

Of course it's not set in space, but the gameplay is more similar to space shooters than to other genres. And I was talking about gameplay in a setting, so it can still be a space-shooter gameplay in a non space-shooter setting. I'd say that's also true for Crimson Skies or Rogue Squadron.

 

[Wysardry]

Why isnt there a Star Gate videogame, of any genre?

See Wikipedia's list of Stargate games

 

[DraQ]

How are computers not doing this in a more technical way by now? But since I am no math genius I take the shows word for it.

Because computers are, in essence, very fast retards (and that's being uncharitable to actual retards).

Also, you've got some serious reading to do - not making even feeble attempts to understand the universe you live in is a disgrace and should make you ineligible of any decision making - including but not limited to any sort of democratic process.

I can't think of one high-brow hard sci-fi rpg I've ever played.

I can barely think of any high brow rpgs (and that's for quite relaxed definition of high-brow) altogether and can't think of any hard sci-fi ones. Are we seriously heading down "nothing can exist unless it already does" alley, despite copious, constantly increasing body of evidence to the contrary?
We are not living in a fantasy setting where the only really good stuff are artifacts of eras gone by.

And a waste since all the effort to make a realistic hard sci-fi game will go down the toilet as soon as the player does any game stuff - the whole point of a game.

I've recently been playing an ultra-realistic, hard sci-fi game (albeit not an RPG one). Your point?

No it isn't. I said - "No chargen, no chardev, all preset characters in a preset story that plays as passively as a book or movie." You can like Anachronox and see my critique of the genre still applies to it. I didn't like Anachronox because it is just like every other jrpg.

(...)

Yes, like PST. A game I dislike due to it having preset characters in a preset story and really bad combat like all the IE games. I play rpgs to create a story, not to have one told to me like in a book or movie. Since you like science, the creator of rpgs stated - “Roleplaying isn’t storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, it’s not a game.” Also, I dislike watching combat. I prefer combat that requires me to think and be involved and try.

I agree that good RPG should be everything PS:T and Anachronox aren't, but in the end good experience trumps good game trumps good RPG - and both games provide EXCESSIVELY good experiences.

No it doesn't*, not even close.
Look at what essentially Dune and Star Wars are:
Star Wars is a tale of a group of heroes using mythical "force" fighting in a galaxy-encompassing struggle of good vs evil.
Dune describes a political struggle in a far future society that reverted to feudalism.

While they might be elements that aren't scientifically sound in Dune (how does interstellar travel really works for once), in many fields what it describes is based on scientific principles (sociology, biology, ecology) while SW doesn't care at all about such things.
Example: In Dune you have the whole ecosystem that supports a species of giant creatures in there. In SW you have giant spaceship-eating monsters that don't make any sense and are there because they are cool (and they really are cool!).

*at least the original book: Dune which is the one I'm talking about. I don't remember later books that well (and I've never read anything past God Emperor iirc).

Dune being a more monocled kind of space fantasy doesn't make it any less fantasy. Also, it's better to be good fantasy than crap sci-fi. I was initially put off Dune just because it was marketed as the the latter instead of embracing being the former.

I had the impression Quantum Thief is of the more fantastical variety, like that Golden Age trilogy by JC Wright.

I'd say that Quantum Thief is about as hard as you can make a post-singularity novel.

Stylistically it often reads like fantasy and in places (particularly most of the second instalment - Fractal Prince) outright becomes sci-fi in fantasy trappings, making it an interesting counterpoint to more typical fantasy in sci-fi trappings (like Dune or SW) and sometimes encountered fantasy pretending it's sci-fi in fantasy trappings.

Haven't read Golden Age.

 

[Glaucon]

Nah, JRPGs are full-on kitchen sink "throw shit to the wall and something will stick" approach. You could say amorphous ill-defined settings are one of JRPG hallmarks from world building perspective. They generally have little to no standout identity to speak of. Bigger, better and more well known titles which become fan favorites are generally exceptions, but how many JRPGs can you think of that have their settings defined and rooted in certain theme or period like, for example, Valkyrie Profile does with Nordic mythology? At best most just use terminology because it sounds cool.

I was thinking about aesthetics and environmental design more so than world-building understood as in-game history or lore. Phantasy star was the particular franchise I had in mind.

 

[Serus]

No it doesn't*, not even close.
Look at what essentially Dune and Star Wars are:
Star Wars is a tale of a group of heroes using mythical "force" fighting in a galaxy-encompassing struggle of good vs evil.
Dune describes a political struggle in a far future society that reverted to feudalism.

While they might be elements that aren't scientifically sound in Dune (how does interstellar travel really works for once), in many fields what it describes is based on scientific principles (sociology, biology, ecology) while SW doesn't care at all about such things.
Example: In Dune you have the whole ecosystem that supports a species of giant creatures in there. In SW you have giant spaceship-eating monsters that don't make any sense and are there because they are cool (and they really are cool!).

*at least the original book: Dune which is the one I'm talking about. I don't remember later books that well (and I've never read anything past God Emperor iirc).

Dune being a more monocled kind of space fantasy doesn't make it any less fantasy. Also, it's better to be good fantasy than crap sci-fi. I was initially put off Dune just because it was marketed as the the latter instead of embracing being the former.

So you are saying that it is fantasy because it is fantasy and that it isn't SF because it isn't SF ? That's deep.

 

[Hevnknekt]

Humanity is in a constant process of degeneration and devolution. Our peak was reached long ago. Everything is gradually turning to shit now, not only our species but also our environment. For this reason it's better to immerse oneself in visions of our noble past (Vavra Chad Simulator, Tolkien, etc.) than to subject oneself to hopelessly optimistic (or realistically deplorable) visions of our future.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

What I like most about space opera personally is the potential for exploration. New worlds and new civilizations. You could add to that new ways of looking at the world, new social ideas, cities carved into the mountainous crust of a rock world, cults that eat the dead, ancient Sargasso seas of wreaked ships under a million-year glacier, species that believe CRPGs are a form of religious duty, trans-dimensional travelers that possess a higher understanding of the cosmos, etc. That is also a big part of what I like in fantasy. It is ideal as a CRPG setting. I know Mass Effect isn't generally liked here but it's among my favorite games of all time for that one reason, as the pleasure of exploring such a comprehensive act of world-building, complete with new alien cultures, was considerably evocative. Space opera can contain all the profundity of any other genre; archetypal heroic struggles, or deep philosophical musing. Whatever you can do in any other genre, you can do.... in space

Just as an aside: I fully accept humanoid aliens in TV space opera shows as a special feature of the genre, like allusive props for Shakespeare plays. It's nothing to be ashamed of, any more than a CRPG with older graphics is. It allowed for actors to act the new culture by inhabiting the minds of the character, allowed the exploration of social systems that audiences can identify with because they are being experienced by a fellow humanoid biped. The audience must simply maintain some immersion using their own mind, like they do for anything. Star Trek, Farscape, Babylon 5, Stargate SG1, etc, also attempted non-humanoid aliens where they could, but of course had to work within the constraints of budget to some degree, despite all being well-funded in their time. Anyway, for all we know, bipedal life that frees up the forelimbs for manipulation of tools is quite common, an example of parallel evolution, although IRL it's unlikely aliens would as human as the Asari.

Anyway, back on topic, I just want to see shit happen in space.

Give me some game like UnderRail but set on a trade planet.

Or give me something like Torment, but adapt Traveller instead.

Could be some Newtonian/Einsteinian hard-sci-fi shit going down, but I'm not bothered if the physics is a bit 'speculative'; Star Trek posited a way around violating relativity that involved not actually traveling faster than light, and since then there have even been theoretical models of how this could happen by physicist Miguel Alcubierre. Our understanding of what is possible in physics changed a lot between 1600 and 2000 AD, so how much more might things have changed by the year 4000 AD?

 

[DraQ]

So you are saying that it is fantasy because it is fantasy and that it isn't SF because it isn't SF ? That's deep.

It is fantasy because it's full of derpy shit (genetic memory, prescience, etc.) and dubious, usually nebulous technologies (and also technological restrictions) transparently serving entrenchment of fantasy tropes.

Take shields, for example. If Dune was sci-fi, the interaction of shields and lasguns wouldn't lead to near elimination of ranged combat. Rather it would be engineered around and ruthlessly exploited in a way that should be immediately obvious to anyone with IQ greater than room temperature (and that's in Celcius) - using small single shot lasers as warheads/mines and quickly nuking shields along with their users into oblivion of complete obsolescence.

"Muh ecology!" doesn't make Dune any more of a sci-fi series than well researched swordplay would turn a fantasy novel also featuring magic and dragons into a historical one.

 

[ItsChon]

What a company needs to do is use the Star Wars universe as the setting of their game. There are plenty of things in the EU of Star Wars that can be used to create an amazing science fiction isometric RPG without ever having to bring in the Jedi. I mean shit, something like the New World could be done just as easily in the SW universe for example. The difficult part would be sifting the good from the bad, but I really think that there is a ton of potential for a quality SW isometric RPG.

 

[DraQ]

What a company needs to do is use the Star Wars universe as the setting of their game. There are plenty of things in the EU of Star Wars that can be used to create an amazing science fiction isometric RPG without ever having to bring in the Jedi. I mean shit, something like the New World could be done just as easily in the SW universe for example. The difficult part would be sifting the good from the bad, but I really think that there is a ton of potential for a quality SW isometric RPG.

Fuck Star Wars.

 

[ItsChon]

Fuck Star Wars.

Star Wars is easy because it's such an established setting with plenty of material to use. OFC, I would love a completely original universe and setting, but that requires a level of optimism in a studios writing department that I simply don't have.