Decline MMOs didn't die, they just became single-player

[J1M]

Just an observation. Even actual MMOs are moving in this direction, with more solo content and grouping-assistance tools that essentially turn other players into NPC companions.

This might be an obvious point, but I put forth that open-world games with their lazy content design and massive time sinks are actually an evolution of the MMO, not the RPG/shooter/etc. Both reward players with environmental exploration as a substitute for design in other areas.

Far Cry swapped out a monthly server fee for an $80/year price tag for yearly expansions. (Plus a $40 price tag for a DLC season pass, bringing the cost up to $10/month.)

This is a safer style of design. You build an environment and populate it with some kill or fetch quests. Nothing too important that a player will care about missing, but something for the autists to worry about completing. You can sell a 5-hour experience as a 90-hour experience, and if you have time you can toss in some unskippable cut-scenes to make people feel like they got their money's worth.

 

[Mustawd]

The Secret World and Path of Exile sure feel like single player MMOs in the way you’ve described.

I think part of the reason is twofold:

1.) The novelty of the multiplayer experience has worn off. I remember as a young teen playing MMOs and and MP games like CS and Day of Defeat and thinking: “WOW...I’m playing with actual ppl. This is craaaazzyyyy!!” The new generation of gamers don’t see this as a big deal. Their whole life MP games have existed. It’s just a matter of fact of gaming. So having intricate systems where you meet actual people and form relationships isn’t the main goal. Throw in the fact that our interpersonal communication online has become more and more removed from actual human interaction. And not just in gaming.

2.) MMOs hit the casual market with WoW. Before that MMOs such as EQ were in solid nerd culture. I remember a news segment in the late 90s/early 2000s about gaming addiction. In particular they focused on EQ. At one point a reporter is looking on incredoulously as some poor neckbeard is explaining how EQ works. The look ahe had on her face was priceless.

Nowadays it’s not expected for you to be a no-lifer to enjoy an MMO or any MP game fir that matter. Mechanics are designed to streamline the experience and package it in a way that even a busy soccer mom can drop in and play an hour here or there. The obvious evolution is to make it more and morw single player based.

In many ways I’m 100% behind this movement. I no longer have time to be a no-lifer, and I couldnt care less if the old style MMO is dying because I don’t have time or the desire to play them anyhow. Booting up Path of Exile I never ever play with other people. But it’s sorta nice to see others run around the town zones. Kinda gives the area a leas empty feel. I then play my 1-1.5 hrs by myself and log off happy.

 

[Theldaran]

MMOs were always a money grab, I hated the idea of showering Blizzard with bills being a student myself in WoW's heyday, and so are its single player successors which charge 100+ bucks for a game.

All in all, if the content is abundant enough to keep you hooked, it might be a good investment. I just feel dirty dropping 100+ for a game.

 

[Norfleet]

I don't see the point of a "single player" online game. If it's single player anyway, why do I need or want all the bullshit that comes with online games? This is like the worst of both worlds.

 

[Theldaran]

I don't see the point of a "single player" online game. If it's single player anyway, why do I need or want all the bullshit that comes with online games? This is like the worst of both worlds.

1. Convenience - regular players don't use all MMOs' services, so the game is transformed into a single-player MMO with way fewer time investment.

2. Content - MMOs tend to have a lot of content but usually low-quality. But it's A LOT of content, which appeals to people who want to play a game longer or with longer sessions. Who knows, maybe dropping 120 for a game is better than buying more games that are shorter.

3. Profit - for a company being able to charge 120 for a game is utopia. That just substitutes the yearly subscription, with the difference that it's paid fully once and the company doesn't have to worry with players cancelling the subscription.

 

[Norfleet]

1. Convenience - regular players don't use all MMOs' services, so the game is transformed into a single-player MMO with way fewer time investment.

But being an MMO is *INCONVENIENT*. You have to then deal with all the bullshit of being online, even though the game doesn't do anything online!

 

[Hobo Elf]

1. Convenience - regular players don't use all MMOs' services, so the game is transformed into a single-player MMO with way fewer time investment.

But being an MMO is *INCONVENIENT*. You have to then deal with all the bullshit of being online, even though the game doesn't do anything online!

Not when it's catered to people who want to put forth minimal effort into the social / online aspects of the game. You make things so convenient that it becomes a non-issue. Kinda like how Steam beat piracy by making it super easy to buy games from them.

 

[Reinhardt]

I want new Atlantica Online.

 

[Tehdagah]

The rise of social media and streaming allowed people to play games "alone" while still interacting with others - it's a 'social experience'.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

1. Why Single Player while Online? Because there is inherent social aspect to it. While we might not necessarily enjoy playing with other people, having other people playing and a community around feels nice. When you do have the itch to play together be it with stranger or some of your friend the option is there.

2. Why Single Player while Online? Competitiveness. The mindset of MMO players changed (might be because the aforementioned casuals). From looking for a challenge to be overcome together like in older MMO to character progression. Players want to feel and look powerful. Gear level, character level, having that purple/gold/orange gear. The F2P models thrives on this as well. You feel better as you get higher progression than your peers. This is also why MMO is dead as the experience is easily gained in mobile gaming.

3. Skinner Box. Basically number two, but a good MMO has hooks. Thats why it is important for MMO (be it traditional PC or in mobile games) to have content update/new endgame.

 

[J1M]

I don't see the point of a "single player" online game. If it's single player anyway, why do I need or want all the bullshit that comes with online games? This is like the worst of both worlds.

From the publisher's perspective it is the only effective form of DRM.

 

[thesheeep]

An MMO is a game where you coexist in the same world with a massive amount of other players - if you actually interact with them or not is up to yourself (and to an extent up to how much the game wants you to do that).

In no way is a game like Path Of Exile an MMO - many players, sure, but there is practically no interaction besides grouping a dungeon and you certainly do not coexist in the same world with anyone outside your current group.
And neither are open world games MMOs - they lack any of the criteria.

I declare this thread: weird.

 

[Mustawd]

An MMO is a game where you coexist in the same world with a massive amount of other players - if you actually interact with them or not is up to yourself (and to an extent up to how much the game wants you to do that).

In no way is a game like Path Of Exile an MMO - many players, sure, but there is practically no interaction besides grouping a dungeon and you certainly do not coexist in the same world with anyone outside your current group.

DDO is very similar to PoExile. Both games feature towns where you can interact with other players. Both games have instanced zones and dungeons that exist only for that specific dungeon and that specific group.

Both games have guilds. Both games have similar communication features when it comes to chat.

I declare your idea of an MMO to be weird.

 

[thesheeep]

An MMO is a game where you coexist in the same world with a massive amount of other players - if you actually interact with them or not is up to yourself (and to an extent up to how much the game wants you to do that).

In no way is a game like Path Of Exile an MMO - many players, sure, but there is practically no interaction besides grouping a dungeon and you certainly do not coexist in the same world with anyone outside your current group.

DDO is very similar to PoExile. Both games feature towns where you can interact with other players. Both games have instanced zones and dungeons that exist only for that specific dungeon and that specific group.

Both games have guilds. Both games have similar communication features when it comes to chat.

I declare your idea of an MMO to be weird.

If you don't believe me, take it from the developers:
http://pathofexile.wikia.com/wiki/Why_we_hate_being_called_an_MMORPG
Do you want to claim that the devs don't know what their own game is?

At best, you could make the differentiation between "traditional MMORPG" and whatever you want to call Path of Exile. I find it much easier to distinguish between "MMORPG" and something that just isn't one and WoW (or DDO) and Path of Exile are as different as night and day.

 

[Makabb]

Because there were rarely few 'real mmos' - where you actualy played with thousands of people in one instance.
Most of those 'mmos' were room based - which is false.
The real mmos were in 1995-2005 era, after that, 90% of so called 'mmos' was a scam.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Beastro]

That's effectively death for MMOs.

It also ignores that which began to fade out in the early 2000s: culture.

Take Rallos Zek on EQ: First PvP server. You'd think it would be nothing but an asshole haven of chaos and griefing, but it wasn't - a great deal of the population chose to be anti-pk and only attacked PKs on sight protecting others while lounging around Exping and shit in between.

Eventually the Antis faded and raiders took over the population, then the PKs faded away.

Today people try to relaunch EQ and nothing like an anti exists outside of the few old guilds coming back that were them. Enough of the people changed both on Red and Blue servers that no one wants to play with that set up or really any but the race to kill 20 year old content first until the next classic server launches.

It's why games like Ultima Online and Classic EQ can't come back even if you made them 100% classic, most people that would play are antisocial fuckwads and have been since the late 2000s refusing to play in a style that made boths games enjoyable for all. With that last bit said maybe it was good MMOs wasted away into single player shit....

 

[Roqua]

I have to disagree in theory. Mmorpgs are turning indie instead of dying (i.e. the two super heroe ones being made), but MMOs are on the rise. Since they all seem to be Battle Royale type games, they seem to be getting more multiplayer dependent, not less. But since I only play good games I cannot verify this. I do know when I check out an mmorpg site I used to see mmorpg news. Now its all mmos in genres I neither understand nor can figure out, other than knowing they aren't mmorpgs and most don't have rpg elements, and the ones that do are 90% crafting games with a little pvp thrown in once in a while.

 

[Theldaran]

I have to disagree in theory. Mmorpgs are turning indie instead of dying (i.e. the two super heroe ones being made), but MMOs are on the rise. Since they all seem to be Battle Royale type games, they seem to be getting more multiplayer dependent, not less. But since I only play good games I cannot verify this. I do know when I check out an mmorpg site I used to see mmorpg news. Now its all mmos in genres I neither understand nor can figure out, other than knowing they aren't mmorpgs and most don't have rpg elements, and the ones that do are 90% crafting games with a little pvp thrown in once in a while.

It's the way of Bioware, they recognised the ultimate form of RPG is a shooter.

 

[Roqua]

It's the way of Bioware, they recognised the ultimate form of RPG is a shooter.

Not just Bioware style games, one of the bigger mmorpg gays came out with the TB arena type MMO. I think MOBAs are kind of like a Battle Royal type system too?

 

[Damned Registrations]

The thing about shit tons of low quality content is that it's interesting as a novelty. Even if it's just a lame zone filled with bears and wolves instead of giant ants and skeletons, it feels cool to discover that when you had no idea it was going to be there. That's pretty much dead these days because everything gets spoiled 6 months in advance of being able to play it anyways. You'd basically have to live under a rock, then beta test the content and race through it faster than anyone else (despite everyone else being spoilered already) in order to get that kind of feeling as I got playing EQ back in the day and finding a new zone or dungeon.

 

[Black Angel]

I'm not exactly in the know regarding MMOs, let alone MMORPGs, but I just want to share this video because I think it can contribute to the discussion:

 

[Serus]

The Secret World and Path of Exile sure feel like single player MMOs in the way you’ve described.

I think part of the reason is twofold:

1.) The novelty of the multiplayer experience has worn off. I remember as a young teen playing MMOs and and MP games like CS and Day of Defeat and thinking: “WOW...I’m playing with actual ppl. This is craaaazzyyyy!!” The new generation of gamers don’t see this as a big deal. Their whole life MP games have existed. It’s just a matter of fact of gaming. So having intricate systems where you meet actual people and form relationships isn’t the main goal. Throw in the fact that our interpersonal communication online has become more and more removed from actual human interaction. And not just in gaming.

2.) MMOs hit the casual market with WoW. Before that MMOs such as EQ were in solid nerd culture. I remember a news segment in the late 90s/early 2000s about gaming addiction. In particular they focused on EQ. At one point a reporter is looking on incredoulously as some poor neckbeard is explaining how EQ works. The look ahe had on her face was priceless.

Nowadays it’s not expected for you to be a no-lifer to enjoy an MMO or any MP game fir that matter. Mechanics are designed to streamline the experience and package it in a way that even a busy soccer mom can drop in and play an hour here or there. The obvious evolution is to make it more and morw single player based.

In many ways I’m 100% behind this movement. I no longer have time to be a no-lifer, and I couldnt care less if the old style MMO is dying because I don’t have time or the desire to play them anyhow. Booting up Path of Exile I never ever play with other people. But it’s sorta nice to see others run around the town zones. Kinda gives the area a leas empty feel. I then play my 1-1.5 hrs by myself and log off happy.

Path of Exile is basically Diablo 2 formula on steroids and the latter is from 2000. Ergo it cannot be an example of evolution that happened mostly post year 2000.

 

[Mustawd]

The Secret World and Path of Exile sure feel like single player MMOs in the way you’ve described.

I think part of the reason is twofold:

1.) The novelty of the multiplayer experience has worn off. I remember as a young teen playing MMOs and and MP games like CS and Day of Defeat and thinking: “WOW...I’m playing with actual ppl. This is craaaazzyyyy!!” The new generation of gamers don’t see this as a big deal. Their whole life MP games have existed. It’s just a matter of fact of gaming. So having intricate systems where you meet actual people and form relationships isn’t the main goal. Throw in the fact that our interpersonal communication online has become more and more removed from actual human interaction. And not just in gaming.

2.) MMOs hit the casual market with WoW. Before that MMOs such as EQ were in solid nerd culture. I remember a news segment in the late 90s/early 2000s about gaming addiction. In particular they focused on EQ. At one point a reporter is looking on incredoulously as some poor neckbeard is explaining how EQ works. The look ahe had on her face was priceless.

Nowadays it’s not expected for you to be a no-lifer to enjoy an MMO or any MP game fir that matter. Mechanics are designed to streamline the experience and package it in a way that even a busy soccer mom can drop in and play an hour here or there. The obvious evolution is to make it more and morw single player based.

In many ways I’m 100% behind this movement. I no longer have time to be a no-lifer, and I couldnt care less if the old style MMO is dying because I don’t have time or the desire to play them anyhow. Booting up Path of Exile I never ever play with other people. But it’s sorta nice to see others run around the town zones. Kinda gives the area a leas empty feel. I then play my 1-1.5 hrs by myself and log off happy.

Path of Exile is basically Diablo 2 formula on steroids and the latter is from 2000. Ergo it cannot be an example of evolution that happened mostly post year 2000.

Those are the only ones Ive played lately tho...

EDIT: Wait, who said anything about post 2000?

EDIT2: The secret world was released in 2012. Dummy.

 

[Data4]

I don't really care any more. I find as I'm now in the throes of middle age, I don't have time for other people's bullshit. It was said before, when MMO's first hit the scene, it was squarely within nerd culture. Generally, the audience it catered to were willing to abide by certain unwritten but well understood rules. Yeah, there's always been PKers since that became doable, but there was still a sort of honor among bastards, and a healthy protector class of player willing to go after them while the more docile provisioner type could for the most part fuck off with their herb picking. But when the casuals flooded in, PVP became deathmatch. Setting and background story be damned, it was simply kill the guy you're capable of killing and up your frag count.

My first MMO experience was Lineage 2 in the months before WoW came out. I can remember being out grinding Swamp Horrors near the Dark Elf starting area, when a cry would go out over the general chat "PK's IN THE AREA!" That was usually followed by a series of "Where? How many?" type responses, and a posse would be formed to go out and deal with them. There would be a couple of players who would assume lead positions, with some herding the players who didn't want to participate to safe areas, while others would handle fight logistics. It was pretty cool to see it play out in an emergent way. You just don't see that any more. Now, when you get into a PVP situation, it's usually a mob of players chewing through an area like locusts. No organized counterattacks, no communication. Usually a handful of people would try to put up a fight, but the sheer numbers of attackers would overwhelm them. Maybe I'm hanging on to a long dead concept, but I still try to regard the paltry few MMORPGs that I poke around in from time to time as RPGs in some way, so I'll pay attention to story and lore and try to at least get into the spirit of the game (Call it LARPing in an MMO if you must. I'm too old to give a fuck any more), and if I wanted mindless deathmatch, I'd playe PUBG or Fortnight.

The general audience of MMOs nowadays are just a bunch of short attention spanned idiots, so I'm perfectly okay with them turning into MSPOs. I get a steady stream of content and the rest of the playerbase can fuck right off. I've decided to embrace the decline completely and have been having a wonderful time in ESO lately. It's basically like an oversized single player ES game anyway.