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Decline MMOs didn't die, they just became single-player

Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
MMORPG's are dying because other games are taking over their market in chunks and they themselves have no redeemable qualities. It's not 2010 anymore when MMORPG's could serve as a good substitute for actual RPG, I'm pretty sure even the biggest schlock is more fun as a PVE game than content from any WoW expansion, especially when compared to WoW in 2010 where there was like WotLK or something and to go raiding you still had to go through all the drama of collecting people etc. So PVE is meh. No MMORPG has managed to make questing and low-level content fun and it's against the philosophy of the genre anyway. PVP? Okay fine, it has to compete with various drop-in games that are far more competitive, less grindy(or have various mechanisms to make it slightly less bothersome) or whatelse. Wanna make career as streamer? LOL GOOD LUCK, MMORPG's are so unreadable that nobody but the biggest addicts will watch it.

BUT MY SOCIAL ASPECT
If you use steam you have integrated chat client in the game's overlay. Otherwise you can use IRC, Dischord or whatever and talk with random people online.

The only worthwhile quality of MMORPG's is that they waste time very well. Getting to max level, grinding gear to make yourself competitive, whoa now you can have some fun, after 40-60 hours in. OKAY let's fix it by making it all more streamlined. Okay, fine, now you've just turned it into drop-in game and people are wondering why would they play this game. Being MMO makes some compromises in design inevitable, so now if you want to cut the "timewasting" - defining feature of MMORPG - out of these games, why don't you just make another game? I'm pretty sure if you made a game that was all about doing dungeon finder/mythic+ with teams made by matchmaker(and premades) as fast as possible, you'd get better game than what good majority of "serious" WoW players play right now. They only stick with WoW because they are familiar with the mechanics.

And yes I'm using WoW as an example since it is the only game that showed the ability to maintain multi-million playerbase for 5 years.
 

Therin

Barely Literate
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
3
BUT MY SOCIAL ASPECT
If you use steam you have integrated chat client in the game's overlay. Otherwise you can use IRC, Dischord or whatever and talk with random people online.

You're ignoring completely the fact that MMOs create friendships out of strangers. Join a random guild where you know nobody and you're building friendships. Outside of the game socializing only works if you have those friends already made and this is basically the "you all have phones, don't you?" argument.

And yes I'm using WoW as an example since it is the only game that showed the ability to maintain multi-million playerbase for 5 years.

Is that really a necessity? SWTOR lives, GW2 lives, EVE lives, hell, even LotRO is doing decently well if you like the game. I'd argue you need maybe 50k active players to keep an MMO alive, maybe even less. 50k for WoW is still 1.5 million USD a month.
 

notkonoyo

Barely Literate
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
4
You're ignoring completely the fact that MMOs create friendships out of strangers. Join a random guild where you know nobody and you're building friendships. Outside of the game socializing only works if you have those friends already made and this is basically the "you all have phones, don't you?" argument.



Is that really a necessity? SWTOR lives, GW2 lives, EVE lives, hell, even LotRO is doing decently well if you like the game. I'd argue you need maybe 50k active players to keep an MMO alive, maybe even less. 50k for WoW is still 1.5 million USD a month.

Great points.
Actually some of my longer friendships were made back when I was actively playing Lineage II.
And older titles soften the feeling of dropping out, people get back after months to years of absence especially in classic version/remasters of the games. So, Akratus, how do you define "playerbase"?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
MMORPG's are dying because other games are taking over their market in chunks and they themselves have no redeemable qualities. It's not 2010 anymore when MMORPG's could serve as a good substitute for actual RPG, I'm pretty sure even the biggest schlock is more fun as a PVE game than content from any WoW expansion, especially when compared to WoW in 2010 where there was like WotLK or something and to go raiding you still had to go through all the drama of collecting people etc. So PVE is meh. No MMORPG has managed to make questing and low-level content fun and it's against the philosophy of the genre anyway. PVP? Okay fine, it has to compete with various drop-in games that are far more competitive, less grindy(or have various mechanisms to make it slightly less bothersome) or whatelse. Wanna make career as streamer? LOL GOOD LUCK, MMORPG's are so unreadable that nobody but the biggest addicts will watch it.

BUT MY SOCIAL ASPECT
If you use steam you have integrated chat client in the game's overlay. Otherwise you can use IRC, Dischord or whatever and talk with random people online.

The only worthwhile quality of MMORPG's is that they waste time very well. Getting to max level, grinding gear to make yourself competitive, whoa now you can have some fun, after 40-60 hours in. OKAY let's fix it by making it all more streamlined. Okay, fine, now you've just turned it into drop-in game and people are wondering why would they play this game. Being MMO makes some compromises in design inevitable, so now if you want to cut the "timewasting" - defining feature of MMORPG - out of these games, why don't you just make another game? I'm pretty sure if you made a game that was all about doing dungeon finder/mythic+ with teams made by matchmaker(and premades) as fast as possible, you'd get better game than what good majority of "serious" WoW players play right now. They only stick with WoW because they are familiar with the mechanics.

And yes I'm using WoW as an example since it is the only game that showed the ability to maintain multi-million playerbase for 5 years.
overlooking the competitive aspect
grinding in a single player game is boring, grinding in an online game with no dedicated servers(and therefore lots of hackers) is shit

it's why path of exile & D3 are so much more popular than grim dawn, torchlight 2, etc.,
 

notkonoyo

Barely Literate
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
4
overlooking the competitive aspect
grinding in a single player game is boring, grinding in an online game with no dedicated servers(and therefore lots of hackers) is shit

it's why path of exile & D3 are so much more popular than grim dawn, torchlight 2, etc.,

Why not choose dedicated servers then? Overlooking the social aspect (though community is almost always better on official ones imo), grinding is a huge part of games we all get hooked on, and it's not the same drag for everyone, you can get the feeling of accomplishment from getting to endgame in mmos.
I tried private servers in lineage and not once found anything of the same welfare/balance as on Teon/Skelth.
 

Interstellar

Literate
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
7
Private Lineage servers are not reliable... It's just a for seasoned gaming. Official servers like Skelth is the best option for most players.
 

ortucis

Prophet
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
2,015
I always play MMO's solo. LOTR Online, Guild Wars 2 to recently, SWTOR. Except for SWTOR, every MMO has no effort put into creating a good storyline and world, most don't even bother creating different stories for different classes.

I DO join Guilds and have chats with others, but that's mostly cause joining Guilds give you XP boost and some other goodies. But it also comes with annoyance of some high level douche from guild joining you and ruining your fun by killing every enemy in few seconds so you can "level up". And it's usually the guild master since most of them have no life and sit there spamming invites. If you tell them to fuck off, you might get kicked from guild instantly. :lol:

Basically, from what I've learned, most people in MMO's play just to level up and waste money on high level gear so the can "look nice" in the virtual world and lord it over others. It's pretty stupid.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
But it also comes with annoyance of some high level douche from guild joining you and ruining your fun by killing every enemy in few seconds so you can "level up". And it's usually the guild master since most of them have no life and sit there spamming invites.
HAHA, yes I'm that guy. I don't spam invites, because I'm almost as asocial as you are. Not because I have any particular philosophical aversion to the concept, but just bceause people like YOU are SLACKERS. "ruinthefun" is both a username a mission statement.

FUN IS A FILTHY PARASITE. WORK MAKES YOU FREE!

Basically, from what I've learned, most people in MMO's play just to level up and waste money on high level gear so the can "look nice" in the virtual world and lord it over others. It's pretty stupid.
SOME people do that. I don't personally care to lord anything over others because I don't value the opinions of lesser beings. I don't waste my money on that shit. If I wanted to not have money, I wouldn't have bothered grinding it in the first place.
 

ortucis

Prophet
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
2,015
But it also comes with annoyance of some high level douche from guild joining you and ruining your fun by killing every enemy in few seconds so you can "level up". And it's usually the guild master since most of them have no life and sit there spamming invites.
HAHA, yes I'm that guy. I don't spam invites, because I'm almost as asocial as you are. Not because I have any particular philosophical aversion to the concept, but just bceause people like YOU are SLACKERS. "ruinthefun" is both a username a mission statement.

I don't think you get it.

People like me aren't slackers, we just don't care. :lol:

We only join the guilds to level up faster or get whatever boost comes from it. Everything else is noise. :smug:
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
MMO audiences died out. I can't spend 3-6 hours a day doing shit in an MMO anymore, Johnny Random doesn't, Jane Casual doesn't... Old audiences that used to spend a fuckton of time going through the motions went ahead and "got a life", and the new audiences grew up with different sensibilities and expectations, something something lobbies, something something quick play, something something instant gratification, something something lootboxes.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
People like me aren't slackers, we just don't care. :lol:
Not caring is the definition of slackerhood!

We only join the guilds to level up faster or get whatever boost comes from it. Everything else is noise. :smug:
Of course. Why else would you join some random guild...

But it also comes with annoyance of some high level douche from guild joining you and ruining your fun by killing every enemy in few seconds so you can "level up".
...except you seem to then dislike it when you get that very thing!

It seems people are always unhappy about two things: Not getting what they want, or actually getting what they wanted.
 

ortucis

Prophet
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
2,015
People like me aren't slackers, we just don't care. :lol:
Not caring is the definition of slackerhood!

No it isn't. We are there for XP boost and while solo players are there, guild gets more people and gets whatever bonus it's getting from getting more members. Equal exchange in the end.

We only join the guilds to level up faster or get whatever boost comes from it. Everything else is noise. :smug:
Of course. Why else would you join some random guild...

But it also comes with annoyance of some high level douche from guild joining you and ruining your fun by killing every enemy in few seconds so you can "level up".
...except you seem to then dislike it when you get that very thing!

:prosper:

I'm not sure you know this, but there ass passive XP boosts you get for joining a guild. It's a moronic "feature" in many MMO's. You don't need some high level twat to ruin it all. The whole point of playing the game is to experience it yourself. MMO's already have easy AI, why would you make it easier bringing in third OP party, especially when you're a solo player? I don't even know what you're arguing for/against here tbh, seems pointless. :lol:

Anyway, I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Solo players don't care about guilds. Means to an end.
 

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