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KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Yosharian

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May 28, 2018
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If developers stopped creating 50% of romances to appeal to 4% of the population
The devs didn't put romances to appeal to the 4% of consumers, they put them there because their big boss wanted them there:
Cpqt2R6.jpg
I don't think you understood my point.

I'll elaborate, since big brain user Hamster also doesn't understand:

I wasn't referring to presence of romances, which this developer post refers to, I was referring to romances that cater to specific demographics, e.g. straight/gay, male/female.

Romances these days generally have to be at least 50-50 straight-gay, despite there being about a 4% user base for these gay romances to appeal to.

Also my comment wasn't specifically aimed at this game, but games in general, as per the comment I was replying to.
 
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Cael

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It looks like Most of SJW rot is coming from Pathfinder Itself with Paizo meddling with developers restraining the worst of it, i wouldnt be surprised if Romances themselves were sacrifaced position, something to beat Paizo over head when they get too uppity.

Is the rpg playing community so overcrowded with degenerates and sodomites anyway? Or are they just very vocal and very active in modding(i.e: baldur's gate mods)?

Homossexuals are a small minority even in the progressive west. It astounds me that they need to be so overrepresented. Most mainstream rpgs these days have several queer npcs and romances.

People want to find representation in their media. It's not surprising that demographics that have historically been poorly represented would be the loudest voices asking for it. To your point, a computer game generally has a fairly small cast, so any effort at equitable representation to satisfy all demographics ends up being wildly out of line with the real world, in terms of ratios or proportional demographics... but so what? It's not like computer games are perfectly accurate world sims anyway. I'd be fine either way as long as the representation was consistent with the lore of the particular game world... but it's historically been pretty rare that game worlds are that detailed (unless drawing from books).

If games (other than rpgmaker or visual novels) were easier to make, there might be a better variety of them, so that all games didn't end up having to be all things to all people. As it is, there just aren't that many AAA (or even AA) RPGs, so if you DO go down the round of companions, romances, and whatever else, your game ends up becoming a rallying point for those seeking inclusivity.

But I might just be drunk and typing random babble. I'm not sure what the solution is, regardless. The only constant is that someone will end up unhappy.
Let me put it this way: Alphabet soupies demand representation in games because they want equality. That is their biggest complaint: that they are under-represented in games, movies, whathaveyou. However, if I do make an accurate representation of alphabet soupies in a game with 4 NPCs (i.e., zero alphabet soupies since they make up about 2-3% of the population of the western civilisation, far less in other nations), they would still be complaining that they are under-represented. So, why haven't game developers pointed out that they are being represented correctly and that any demands from them are out of line of reality? Why have game developers instead wrongly, inaccurately and fraudulently portray alphabet soupies as a far larger percentage of the population than they actually are?

Take Dragon Age Origins. 2 of your 10 companions are alphabet soupies, and I am not sure if you should really count the old woman, the old man, the alien, the drunk nasty dwarf, the golem or the dog amongst the 10. As for other NPCs, you have a psycho homosexual dwarf dictator, homosexual smith and his sidekick, homosexual bard master, homosexual ghoul, homosexual elf lady in waiting, and probably many more that I have forgotten. Hell, even Celene of Orlais is homosexual in the novels. And let's not get into DA2 or DAI.

That is not equality. That is pandering to a minor minority and fraudulently normalising something that is at best deviant (as in not normal as evidenced by their minor minority status) behaviour, and that fraud is what grates like hell, especially when game developers use that fraud as virtue signalling.
 

jf8350143

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It's not the pandering SJW pulling Bioware down. They barely spend any effort on making all those romances, it's mostly one or two cut scenes for each characters and 90% of the dialogues are still the same whether you romance a character or not.

And they are not pandering to the minorities, they are pandering to the majorities(or at lest they think is the majorities), who "value the importance of diversity and equality". It's the same trick Disney use when promoting Black Panther or the upcoming Captain Marvel.
 

Lone Wolf

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I just had the odd thought that 99% of the men who played BG2 ended up fucking some shade of elf (Avariel, Drow or garden variety halfie). God damned Bioware, pushing that sweet, sweet elven poontang.
 

Curratum

Guest
Why the fuck do people care about romances so much? It's just a tacked-on potential bonus, maybe, if it's done ok. I'm much more worried about the severe lack of distinct different locations in the game that are not Generic Forest and literally two tilesets of dungeon that they've shown in every trailer and gameplay video ever.
 

Thonius

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Pro-Tip Corporation.
Why the fuck do people care about romances so much? It's just a tacked-on potential bonus, maybe, if it's done ok. I'm much more worried about the severe lack of distinct different locations in the game that are not Generic Forest and literally two tilesets of dungeon that they've shown in every trailer and gameplay video ever.
Because in recent game (I wont name it because otherwise we gonna get some 20 pages of discussion, does not matter it's just represent the trend) while you sailed some drunk ass hobo barges in your cabin with buttsex offer. And in general it's degrading in the way. Like you cannot say "Good job mate!" to your party member without response "Let's mate!".
 

CaesarCzech

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It looks like Most of SJW rot is coming from Pathfinder Itself with Paizo meddling with developers restraining the worst of it, i wouldnt be surprised if Romances themselves were sacrifaced position, something to beat Paizo over head when they get too uppity.

Is the rpg playing community so overcrowded with degenerates and sodomites anyway? Or are they just very vocal and very active in modding(i.e: baldur's gate mods)?

Homossexuals are a small minority even in the progressive west. It astounds me that they need to be so overrepresented. Most mainstream rpgs these days have several queer npcs and romances.

Because there are straight players like to see same sex romance as well. Some male players play as female characters and romance female characters, same goes to the female players.

The devs don't just put same sex romances in the game to appeal to the gay people, it's actually quite the other way around. There is a reason why Asari is a bi-sexual all female race, instead of a bi-sexual all male race.

So Devs Altering the Homesexual romancse to squeze something for their core audience disproves his argument how ?

Why the fuck do people care about romances so much? It's just a tacked-on potential bonus, maybe, if it's done ok. I'm much more worried about the severe lack of distinct different locations in the game that are not Generic Forest and literally two tilesets of dungeon that they've shown in every trailer and gameplay video ever.

Well making 50% content of particular area for 4% of population is stupid, this isnt battleground this is merely consequence of what we have today, its just a warning bell

Why the fuck do people care about romances so much? It's just a tacked-on potential bonus, maybe, if it's done ok. I'm much more worried about the severe lack of distinct different locations in the game that are not Generic Forest and literally two tilesets of dungeon that they've shown in every trailer and gameplay video ever.
Because in recent game (I wont name it because otherwise we gonna get some 20 pages of discussion, does not matter it's just represent the trend) while you sailed some drunk ass hobo barges in your cabin with buttsex offer. And in general it's degrading in the way. Like you cannot say "Good job mate!" to your party member without response "Let's mate!".

Do you mean anders or did they do it again.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
It's not the pandering SJW pulling Bioware down. They barely spend any effort on making all those romances, it's mostly one or two cut scenes for each characters and 90% of the dialogues are still the same whether you romance a character or not.

And they are not pandering to the minorities, they are pandering to the majorities(or at lest they think is the majorities), who "value the importance of diversity and equality". It's the same trick Disney use when promoting Black Panther or the upcoming Captain Marvel.


Black Panther is not diverse at all, it's almost completely black.

I would personally love to see some RPGs set in fantasy or SciFi "Africa", not this weak ass, watered down "diversity" bullshit. I bet a lot of other people would as well.

If you want to showcase the experience of homosexuals then make the protagonist one so that the world can contrast them rather than making every other character LGBTQ.

Just inserting random "minorities" for representation is so fucking retarded.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
How deep is the management aspect?

New preview: https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/pathfinder-kingmaker-preview

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Did you fully upgrade Caed Nua in Pillars of Eternity? Did you spend hours messing around on the War Table in Dragon Age: Inquisition? Did you install a mod so could own all the strongholds in Baldur’s Gate 2, even the theatre that’s supposed to be exclusive to Bards? Did you ever wish someone would make a whole game of that? If you answered yes to all these questions: hello me, why are you commenting on your own article? But also you might be interested in Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

Rarely has a colon so clearly delineated the two sides of a game. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is based on the pen & paper Pathfinder role playing system, which is itself an adaptation of Dungeons and Dragons third edition (to put that in video game terms, think Neverwinter Nights). At first that plays out exactly like you’d expect, a standard, not particularly imaginative isometric RPG with real time pause combat and an eccentric group of characters, including a splendidly oily, scheming little gnome who serves as an antagonist. Act One sends you on an epic quest to kill a bandit king in a place called the Stolen Lands. Then things start changing, as with the king dead you decide to set up shop in his lands and found your own kingdom.

Suddenly the game reveals a second layer, one closer to a strategy game than an RPG. There’s even a straight up city builder interface here, where you can plonk down taverns and blacksmiths in various towns around the kingdom. These towns will come to reflect your character and their moral choices, an evil kingdom might be stocked with bandits who raid their neighbours, while a lawful good one (yes we’re working with the old school D&D alignment system here) might be policed by shining paladins.

It isn’t just building though, as the kingdom will produce dynamic events that can be solved by assigning your advisors or companions, much like Dragon Age Inquisition’s War Table. One incident involved a group of villagers attempting to stone a young girl accused of Witchcraft. At first I assigned ruthless noble Landon to deal with it, as he had the highest stats. The result, he let them burn the girl and then fabricated evidence that she was guilty.

Horrified I reloaded and tried again, this time with the studiously lawful Valerie in charge. She stopped the mob and insisted on holding a fair trial instead, fortunately the girl was found innocent. Not every character can solve every problem, they have a specialty, like community, military, divine, etc. But the sheer volume of characters means you’ll nearly always have more than one choice how to approach a problem.

The whole thing seems like a very clever mash up of two video game genres, which is why it might surprise you to learn it’s actually a direct adaptation of a tabletop RPG campaign (the first I can remember since 2003’s The Temple of Elemental Evil) in which this entire system is played out with pen, paper and dice.

“When we were making Kingmaker every member of the team played the game.” Alexander Mishulin, the game’s Creative Director explains: “We have four groups running simultaneously playing through Kingmaker.” Alexander has a long history with both tabletop RPGs and their computerised equivalents: “In the 90s in Russia there were not a lot of personal computers, like none.” Alexander explains.

“My father was working in industry and they got several personal computers for mechanical calculations. Sometimes I was able to sneak into his workplace and study the computers, which of course meant playing a lot of computer games.” One of those games was 1991’s Eye of the Beholder, an ancient D&D adaptation that got Alexander interested in pen & paper roleplaying, which was almost as difficult to get hold of: “There were like two or three rulebooks in Moscow,” he says. “They were like precious relics.”

I’m familiar enough with the Pathfinder system to marvel at the notion of fitting an entire city building game into a D20 dice system, but Alexander takes pains to explain that they stuck close to the source material, with one notable exception. “There are no goblins in there.” He gestures to a set of books for the pen and paper version of Kingmaker (unfortunately all in German, so I have to take his word for it). “ When we talked to Paizo they said they know that in Kingmaker there are no goblins but goblins are so Pathfinder that you have to find a way to introduce them. We’d already played a lot of Pathfinder so we were familiar with Pathfinder Goblins“ He explains “They’re very different from the goblins of dungeons and dragons. They’re very charismatic, they run and mayhem, they love fire and burning stuff, they hate dogs, they think reading something takes away your soul. They’re really strange, charismatic creatures.“ Fans obviously agreed, as a goblin companion was one of the successful stretch goals for the company’s kickstarter.

The other thing Alexander is keen to impress on me during our talk is just how interconnected to the strategy and RPG layers are. After Act 1 is over you’ll be constantly pivoting between Kingdom management and questing, with each affecting the other. He gives the example of a troll infestation which threatens the kingdom, requiring a quest to resolve it. You have three in game months to achieve this, or you’ll get a hard game over. “It is part of the story as well as part of the game, and because it’s part of the story the game is over if you lose your Kingdom.”

“But we do understand that some players don’t like the strategy game layer.” he adds “There is a special mode in settings where you can place your kingdom on automation. Most of the decisions will be taken out from you, you will still be speaking with NPCs about quests and side activities…. All of the decisions all of the events will be taken out from you and you will play with the kingdom in the background.” By the same token the difficulty level is highly customisable, so those who are more interested in the strategy layer can turn on “auto-level-up”, drop the difficulty and focus on kingdom building.

But the real fun seems to come from when the two overlap, when your questing overturns a person or item that helps your kingdom, or your artisans craft a great magical item to help your adventure. “The story of the game is the story of the kingdom” says Alexander. Finally, obsessive castle building an be more than just a sidequest.
 

Cael

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Do you mean anders or did they do it again.
They did it in Dragon Age Origins. You say nice things to the elf and the fucking relationship flag goes up even though your male character is already in a serious relationship with a female member. One wrong word, and the game immediately assumes you are homosexual despite contrary evidence. Homosexuality and promiscuity and every alphabet soupie thing you can think of immediately overrides everything. That is how far Gaider's ass got penetrated during the development of the game.
 

Cael

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Nov 1, 2017
Messages
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Black Panther is not diverse at all, it's almost completely black.
And it was advertised that way. By black people, starring black people, directed by black people, for black people.

As I am not black, I didn't go see it as it was obviously not aimed at me. Now, if only the SJW fucks would grant me the same courtesy.
 

Mark Richard

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Mar 14, 2016
Messages
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Sounds neat. I've always been fascinated by the variations of land/castle ownership in RPGs. In BG2, DA Origins: Awakening, and PoE, it's really just intended to be a minor diversion. Expeditions: Viking and DA: Inquisition are supposedly built around the concept, but in Viking there's very little to do aside from work towards an ending by constructing buildings to increase your score (it's not necessary to visit the village more than three times in one playthrough), and Inquisition's kingdom management feels like Batman a Facebook game.

Neverwinter Nights 2 rides the line. The fort doesn't show up till the halfway point, but It's the closest I've felt to a lord thus far.
The other thing Alexander is keen to impress on me during our talk is just how interconnected to the strategy and RPG layers are. After Act 1 is over you’ll be constantly pivoting between Kingdom management and questing, with each affecting the other. He gives the example of a troll infestation which threatens the kingdom, requiring a quest to resolve it. You have three in game months to achieve this, or you’ll get a hard game over. “It is part of the story as well as part of the game, and because it’s part of the story the game is over if you lose your Kingdom.”
I wearily await the complaints about timers.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://af.gog.com/news/pathfinder_kingmaker_q_a_ask_your_questions?as=1649904300

PATHFINDER: KINGMAKER Q & A - ASK YOUR QUESTIONS!

With the coming release of Pathfinder: Kingmaker fast approaching, developer Owlcat Games has been kind enough to open an invitation to GOG users to ask any burning questions they may have. If you’ve ever wondered anything about the celebrated pen & paper RPG transitioning from tabletop to the video game realm, now’s the time to ask!

Where do female Dwarfs come from? What makes a good bard? How evil can you be? It’s all a matter of asking!

Submit your questions in the official forum thread linked below and we’ll forward them to Owlcat games. Of course, we cannot promise we’ll get all your questions answered, but it doesn’t hurt to try!

The answers will be published at a later date on the GOG site and forums.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker releases September 25th, you can pre-order the Explorer Edition for the base game, or grab Imperial, Royal or Noble Edition for the juicy bonus goodies.
 
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Curratum

Guest
It's three MONTHS, Jesus! :D

If it's a main event in the modules, it can't be just handwaved away.
 

laclongquan

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So, why haven't game developers pointed out that they are being represented correctly and that any demands from them are out of line of reality? Why have game developers instead wrongly, inaccurately and fraudulently portray alphabet soupies as a far larger percentage of the population than they actually are?

That is not equality. That is pandering to a minor minority and fraudulently normalising something that is at best deviant (as in not normal as evidenced by their minor minority status) behaviour, and that fraud is what grates like hell, especially when game developers use that fraud as virtue signalling.

Game devs hadnt and probabbly wouldnt do the pointing out because they have a zero budget for PR and marketing staff who would have to fight the crazies from all corner, up to and including the crazies inside their own company.

It is the trend these days to pay attention to crazies. As game companies dont have that much clout, they have to follow the trend even if they dont agree with the trend. (God help us with companies that agree with the trend).

It's the trend these days for amateur, quack, and crazies flooding game dev scene nowadays, ESPECIALLY in writing positions. And for them, alphabet soupies are a big part of their mentality, their school of thoughts. Ditto with the leftism bias, by the way. Thus they got an in regarding game companies.

See? And no cure. You have to wait until it's no longer the trends, is all.
 

CaesarCzech

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Messages
445
So, why haven't game developers pointed out that they are being represented correctly and that any demands from them are out of line of reality? Why have game developers instead wrongly, inaccurately and fraudulently portray alphabet soupies as a far larger percentage of the population than they actually are?

That is not equality. That is pandering to a minor minority and fraudulently normalising something that is at best deviant (as in not normal as evidenced by their minor minority status) behaviour, and that fraud is what grates like hell, especially when game developers use that fraud as virtue signalling.

Game devs hadnt and probabbly wouldnt do the pointing out because they have a zero budget for PR and marketing staff who would have to fight the crazies from all corner, up to and including the crazies inside their own company.

It is the trend these days to pay attention to crazies. As game companies dont have that much clout, they have to follow the trend even if they dont agree with the trend. (God help us with companies that agree with the trend).

It's the trend these days for amateur, quack, and crazies flooding game dev scene nowadays, ESPECIALLY in writing positions. And for them, alphabet soupies are a big part of their mentality, their school of thoughts. Ditto with the leftism bias, by the way. Thus they got an in regarding game companies.

See? And no cure. You have to wait until it's no longer the trends, is all.

Sooner or later SJWs gonna get cucked by the bull of the market in our interest is that once that is done, we fortify position and Hiroshima any redoubts of resistance, and the Yugoslavia any Idiots trying to push that agenda in again.
 

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