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Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep - Director's Cut

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,678
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I don’t understand how they thought the combat engine was a good idea. What the fuck is up with only having so many points to spend across your entire party? Has there ever been an RPG in history where every character doesn’t get to do something on their turn? The way this plays out, some characters can’t even act if you have a party bigger than the point pool available to you.

Can you imagine if D&D had evolved that way and all RPGs had followed that idea?

Cleric: I heal the rogue.
DM: Oh, sorry, the fighter already used all the points for the party this turn.

I mean, come on guys, what is this shit?

Am I the only one here that doesn’t find this unfun?

It creates restraints on what you can do. I mean forget how blobbers are usually designed. This idea sounds cool to me. Now is it executed well? That I dunno.

I'm guessing you haven't played it? I agree that restraints can encourage creative thinking or development of different strategies, but in my few hours playing, it's done neither. It's not fun and the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me.
 

BlackGoat

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
505
First report of an RTX 2080 being unable to maintain 60FPS in FullHD: https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=19487

This is by far the most graphically demanding RPG ever made :salute:
PAa5dmZ.png
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,539
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What the fuck is up with only having so many points to spend across your entire party?
Am I the only one here that doesn’t find this unfun? It creates restraints on what you can do. I mean forget how blobbers are usually designed. This idea sounds cool to me.
I'm guessing you haven't played it? I agree that restraints can encourage creative thinking or development of different strategies, but in my few hours playing, it's done neither. It's not fun and the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me.
Shrug. I have played it - 10 hours in the beta - and I found the opportunity system enjoyable. The problem for me is how limited your "hand size" is - only 3 options per character (not counting move and potion) is annoying and I see no good reason for it. As a character levels up and learns more abilities they should be able to bring more to the table instead of forgetting old abilities (and spells!) to replace them with new ones. This is not just a realism argument but also a gameplay one - having a large "hand" and finding just the right "card" for the situation would just be better than having to play the same 3 cards over and over.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
That hp discrepancy between creatures on the screen is hilarious. And a reason why I wouldn't pick Hard for this game again ever, since it drags so long.
It is on normal,the hp is not a problem,could kill it in 2 turns. The problem is the armour,i can take only 18 per turn,the armour killing skills don't scale like pure damage,thus making him indestructible for a long time. There aren't many anti armour skills,i found one to be honest. Also the armour is pure block,if you have more damage than armour then that damage hits the hp bar,except magic attacks,of which they are very few.

:retarded::retarded::retarded:

LoL the main quest is bugged and you can't progress "bones in the fog". I don't know what to say.... those people deserve what they get. Fargo up yours!
ha, clusterfucks like this game are so great. It's going to be comparatively boring when Kingmaker comes out and everyone is just playing it and the posts about it are just "yeah this is pretty good"
The codex will bash it to high heavens,for the first few days that is. After that people will begin talking about old games as usual,just look at this thread.
Shall we start betting brofists about kingmaker release state , will this indie team from russia delivers a smooth bug free experience with great performance , or will it be like TOE release day ? Pretty sure it will be a bug fest as well.
Oh it will be buggy,but it won't be that noticeable. Also they will be minor in my opinion. I am expecting a lot of hate for the sjw writing.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,603
Codex 2012 MCA
If they're gonna fix up many of the problems by the end of the next week, as they (I think) claimed, why not just push up the release by two weeks? They must've known what is the state of the game, were they that desperate for money?
Eh, once you declare a release date it's bad form to miss it I guess. Anyway, who expects a final product on day one these days? Not an excuse, just facing the reality.

Better to delay the release with couple of weeks, than to release game in disastrous state, as Bard's Tale 4 seems to be, people are more forgiving of delaying the release, than to get a game which is barely playable. It's basic Business 101 that if you are proactive and react to the problems before the customer has chance to complain about it, they are going to be lot more happier, than the customer who gets faulty product or bad experience, and has to complain about it. Poorly handled product launch can kill a company, if Fargo would be a good businessman, he would know it.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,603
Codex 2012 MCA
See? That's how the reputation is made, when people hears that it has a very problematic launch, it tends to snowball. Either they genuinely didn't know about the bugs and problems, they didn't care or they're that strapped for cash. Any of those possibilities doesn't instill much confidence. Maybe I should become business consult for gaming companies!
 

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,678
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
What the fuck is up with only having so many points to spend across your entire party?
Am I the only one here that doesn’t find this unfun? It creates restraints on what you can do. I mean forget how blobbers are usually designed. This idea sounds cool to me.
I'm guessing you haven't played it? I agree that restraints can encourage creative thinking or development of different strategies, but in my few hours playing, it's done neither. It's not fun and the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me.
Shrug. I have played it - 10 hours in the beta - and I found the opportunity system enjoyable. The problem for me is how limited your "hand size" is - only 3 options per character (not counting move and potion) is annoying and I see no good reason for it. As a character levels up and learns more abilities they should be able to bring more to the table instead of forgetting old abilities (and spells!) to replace them with new ones. This is not just a realism argument but also a gameplay one - having a large "hand" and finding just the right "card" for the situation would just be better than having to play the same 3 cards over and over.

For me, it's a combination of all things. Maybe the shared resource pool would work okay if each character had a better variety of actions, but they don't... so the restriction adds nothing to the table. That's what I mean by "the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me"
 

Mustawd

Guest
if Fargo would be a good businessman, he would know it.

Overall, he’s done ok in understanding the market, with some big bumps along the way.

It really makes me think they pushed this out way before it was ready due to their financial situation.

Fargo threw part of his team under the bus, but if this was properly QA’d wouldn’t they have know this was an issue before release?
 

Mustawd

Guest
What the fuck is up with only having so many points to spend across your entire party?
Am I the only one here that doesn’t find this unfun? It creates restraints on what you can do. I mean forget how blobbers are usually designed. This idea sounds cool to me.
I'm guessing you haven't played it? I agree that restraints can encourage creative thinking or development of different strategies, but in my few hours playing, it's done neither. It's not fun and the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me.
Shrug. I have played it - 10 hours in the beta - and I found the opportunity system enjoyable. The problem for me is how limited your "hand size" is - only 3 options per character (not counting move and potion) is annoying and I see no good reason for it. As a character levels up and learns more abilities they should be able to bring more to the table instead of forgetting old abilities (and spells!) to replace them with new ones. This is not just a realism argument but also a gameplay one - having a large "hand" and finding just the right "card" for the situation would just be better than having to play the same 3 cards over and over.

For me, it's a combination of all things. Maybe the shared resource pool would work okay if each character had a better variety of actions, but they don't... so the restriction adds nothing to the table. That's what I mean by "the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me"


I can see that being the case then. If you’re gonna restrict actions you at least have to provide a variety of options to mix it up.
 

Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925
Anyone get to the skull bell puzzle yet? I was able to do the 4 glyph locks, raise the level, and I get that the skulls opposite of the bells are notes to be played on the bells. Problem is, I think the game might have glitched...I accidentally lowered them but when I put them back up they don't go to the same height anymore so i tune the tune I am supposed to play is lost now.
 

ProphetSword

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,755
Location
Monkey Island
For me, it's a combination of all things. Maybe the shared resource pool would work okay if each character had a better variety of actions, but they don't... so the restriction adds nothing to the table. That's what I mean by "the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me"

In addition, because you have such a restricted number of things you can do, you tend to focus on the few things that give you the most value for your time, which leads to very boring combats where you cycle through the same moves over and over again. I mean, don't get me wrong, the original Bard's Tale games had a lot of combats where you press "Attack" over and over again, but the spell variety at least gave a lot of variation.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
What the fuck is up with only having so many points to spend across your entire party?
Am I the only one here that doesn’t find this unfun? It creates restraints on what you can do. I mean forget how blobbers are usually designed. This idea sounds cool to me.
I'm guessing you haven't played it? I agree that restraints can encourage creative thinking or development of different strategies, but in my few hours playing, it's done neither. It's not fun and the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me.
Shrug. I have played it - 10 hours in the beta - and I found the opportunity system enjoyable. The problem for me is how limited your "hand size" is - only 3 options per character (not counting move and potion) is annoying and I see no good reason for it. As a character levels up and learns more abilities they should be able to bring more to the table instead of forgetting old abilities (and spells!) to replace them with new ones. This is not just a realism argument but also a gameplay one - having a large "hand" and finding just the right "card" for the situation would just be better than having to play the same 3 cards over and over.

For me, it's a combination of all things. Maybe the shared resource pool would work okay if each character had a better variety of actions, but they don't... so the restriction adds nothing to the table. That's what I mean by "the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me"
The skill restriction become a lot more obvious later on,once you get more command points it is painfully limiting without any real reason to be. You are still restricted by the action points and you can't spam the powerful skills. I still use mainly the skills that i got in the first 5 levels,later skills are half-assed,there really low amount of attack spells. In the end the game still manages to deliver a challenge.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
You know something's off with your RPG combat when you have to pull out boxing comparisons.
 

cainus-lupus

Novice
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
12
I'm also irritated that in order to create your own party members, you have to get fucking tokens. It's like if your house was burning down but you needed special tokens to invite the firemen to put out the fire. Who thought this was a great idea?

"I know the city is in danger and you could really use a spellcaster and a warrior to help you out, but until you get some tokens I can't allow them to work for you and join your team. If we all die as a result, then so be it. Now gimme some tokens or fuck off."
Those tokens are abstraction representing your growing cred among adventurers. The more shit you accomplish, the more trustworthy other companions will find you and there will be more possible recruits.
It makes sense if not taken literary. Like many systems in RPG's.

I'm waiting for patches and then will play it. Looks decent.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Gotta say 'the old games were shit too' is one of the most odious shill-speaks for defending something I've seen in a while.

Nah, u guys r just being obtuse!!
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,640
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
And thus most of the things that BT4 allegedly removed weren't to be found in the series anyway.

Gord pulls ahead in the retard race!

BT1: 10 classes
BT4: 4 classes

BT1: 6 Races
BT4: 4 Races

BT1: Full party creation from the start
BT4: Restricted for dozens of hours

BT1: 7 party members including summoned monsters
BT4: 6 party members, no permanent summons

BT1: Respawning enemies
BT4: Finite enemies

BT1: 80-something spells
BT4: Fewer

BT1: Standard attack/MP usage mechanics
BT4: autistic action point/spell point/mastery limits

Yep nothing removed or dumbed down at all. Bard's Tale 2 and 3 even had engagements with multiple groups of enemies at range with archery and spells, which this game reduces to a measly two rows of combat. What does Bard's Tale 4 add? Crafting and block puzzles. Whoopee.

I never claimed the Bard's Tale games were super deep or complex, that's what makes this so odd. The first game in the series should be the baseline for a sequel. Content is king. More levels, more characters, more classes, more items, more spells, more feats, more monsters, more everything. It's 2018, you have 50gb install space, all the CPU power in the world, and all you can come up with is fighter-mage-cleric-thief?

The original Bard's Tale had 10 classes, this game should have at least that many. If it's so hard, try 7-8, not four. Or maybe think about adding one or two. Bard's Tale 4, now with eleven classes! Wowee! Brian Fargo made you his bitch!

Sure, there are specializations for the classes. Let's say with sub-classes that brings the game's total up to a whopping 8-ish. Might and Magic X had twelve classes, and they were all different AND had specializations. Starcrawlers had 8 classes with three sub-class trees each, essentially bringing the total up to 24. You know what? I thought THAT game was kinda shallow, but it was made for next-to-nothing; what is Bard's Tale 4's excuse? Not like it actually matters though because everyone is limited to an extremely stingy four active abilities, including basic attacks.

"But lots of other RPG sequels violate the 'Moar content' rule," says Jimmy. Yes they do Jimmy, and they all suck too. Everyone gets the bullet.

I know Brian Fargo understands this, because of Wasteland 2. That game perfectly encapsulates the "moar stuff" sequel concept. The original game had a lot of pointless skills, the new game made all skills useful. How rare is that? There are no dump skills in WL2. You need all of them. They even added more dialogue skills. They expanded the stat system and introduced more build choices. In the original many weapons were only viable for a limited portion of the game, like pistols. In WL2 you can use pistols for the whole game; there are even multiple weapon types at each tier with different trade-offs, like power vs. rate of fire and criticals. They added full movement system for combat, action points, cover system, and called shots. They added more areas and more content, creating a longer game (some even said it was too long). Sure, the game was buggy as shit and the second half was unfinished, but at least you can't call it dumbed down. Bard's Tale 4 is buggy, unfinished, AND dumbed down.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,386
I seem to be an exception in that I haven't experienced any bugs or technical issues in sixteen hours of play. Maybe I'll encounter a game breaking bug later and spend the next six years shooping Fargo's face onto a goat's anus or something, but for the moment I'm actually enjoying BT4. The game's charm and exploration are holding my interest. It's a really shitty Bard's Tale sequel, but a moderately entertaining iPhone game.

Anyone get to the skull bell puzzle yet? I was able to do the 4 glyph locks, raise the level, and I get that the skulls opposite of the bells are notes to be played on the bells. Problem is, I think the game might have glitched...I accidentally lowered them but when I put them back up they don't go to the same height anymore so i tune the tune I am supposed to play is lost now.
I didn't have that problem, and I raised and lowered the skulls a couple of times, but you could try exiting and re-entering the map. Sometimes that resets things.
When the tune is played correctly you need to exit by the corridor you entered by, where the spike traps are now active, and then turn around and walk back toward the room again. It's a weird area.

RPGs weren't good until the 90s.
220px-Pool_of_Radiance_Coverart.png
220px-Ultima_IV_box.jpg
220px-Wasteland_Coverart.png


Three '80s games that are actually more sophisticated, and feature rich, than most of the shit released in subsequent decades even though they had to run on a toaster with 64kb of memory. If only we could recover the lost wisdom of the ancients.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
What the fuck is up with only having so many points to spend across your entire party?
Am I the only one here that doesn’t find this unfun? It creates restraints on what you can do. I mean forget how blobbers are usually designed. This idea sounds cool to me.
I'm guessing you haven't played it? I agree that restraints can encourage creative thinking or development of different strategies, but in my few hours playing, it's done neither. It's not fun and the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me.
Shrug. I have played it - 10 hours in the beta - and I found the opportunity system enjoyable. The problem for me is how limited your "hand size" is - only 3 options per character (not counting move and potion) is annoying and I see no good reason for it. As a character levels up and learns more abilities they should be able to bring more to the table instead of forgetting old abilities (and spells!) to replace them with new ones. This is not just a realism argument but also a gameplay one - having a large "hand" and finding just the right "card" for the situation would just be better than having to play the same 3 cards over and over.

For me, it's a combination of all things. Maybe the shared resource pool would work okay if each character had a better variety of actions, but they don't... so the restriction adds nothing to the table. That's what I mean by "the combat is so simplistic anyway that the restraints imposed don't do anything but annoy me"
The skill restriction become a lot more obvious later on,once you get more command points it is painfully limiting without any real reason to be. You are still restricted by the action points and you can't spam the powerful skills. I still use mainly the skills that i got in the first 5 levels,later skills are half-assed,there really low amount of attack spells. In the end the game still manages to deliver a challenge.
Not to defend the game (god forbid) but how is it different from Vancian magic basically?
 

ProphetSword

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,755
Location
Monkey Island
Not to defend the game (god forbid) but how is it different from Vancian magic basically?

Because casting a spell in a system that uses Vancian magic doesn't then prevent your warrior from being able to act during the round as a result of you casting that spell.
 

ProphetSword

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,755
Location
Monkey Island
Those tokens are abstraction representing your growing cred among adventurers. The more shit you accomplish, the more trustworthy other companions will find you and there will be more possible recruits.
It makes sense if not taken literary. Like many systems in RPG's.

There are numerous better ways to handle it, such as the NPC saying something like: "You don't yet have a good enough repuation to hire adventurers to join your party," and then that is backed up by some kind of reputation system. So, no, tokens are not a good abstraction...it's a complete shit abstraction.

I'm waiting for patches and then will play it. Looks decent.

It's isn't. But, feel free to toss your money to the wind all you want.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Rate my post "Shit" and "Edgy" and "retardred" all you fucking want. It doesn't change how fucking retarded most of you are with how you hate ANY change that isn't like it was in the 90s.

80's.

:nocountryforshitposters:
Wizardry 1-4, Might and Magic 1 and 2, and every 80s video game non PnP RPGs are garbage, unplayable trash.

RPGs weren't good until the 90s. Don't fucking respond because it's true and I won't listen to any other garbage trash from 40 year old retards who refuse to admit their games were shit. Wizardry 4 is the worst game I've ever played and would rather play Dragon Age 2 than that garbage
RPGs weren't good until a brief period in 1997 and again in 2001.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,539
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Not to defend the game (god forbid) but how is it different from Vancian magic basically?
It's kind of similar, yes, in that you can only "memorize" a couple spells at a time. You can still cast them all you want but can only keep a few in your head.

An odd thing is that this also applies to nonmagic characters. For example a fighter may only remember how to charge, thrust, or swing. If he wants to shield block, he has to forget one of those.

Another thing on this point: Vancian magic is dumb as hell in the first place.
 

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