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KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
To be fair, the level 1 party eliminated by a housecat is kind of a D&D trope. Just shows how out of fashion p&p is.
It's usually level 1 Wizards that can get eliminated by housecats, and that's because if they're not careful they have no armor and extremely low health, so they can get oneshot by a housecat. And in Pathfinder (a slightly tweaked version of 3.5 D&D) that can't really happen anymore because they buffed Wizards a lot so the housecat would need to crit to oneshot a Wizard.
 

Curratum

Guest
D&D3 is the edition where I stopped playing because fuck this maths and feats and calculation noise. I'm amazed PF is as popular as it still is as a tabletop system. I find PF players are more interested in munchkining it out and / or just reveling in their full-blown autism than in the actual game of high adventure and derring-do.
 

Turjan

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
5,047
To be fair, the level 1 party eliminated by a housecat is kind of a D&D trope. Just shows how out of fashion p&p is.
It's usually level 1 Wizards that can get eliminated by housecats, and that's because if they're not careful they have no armor and extremely low health, so they can get oneshot by a housecat. And in Pathfinder that can't really happen because they buffed Wizards a lot so the housecat would need to crit to oneshot a Wizard.
Also the cat having an armor bonus from its "tiny" size. But yeah, it's more of a 3.0 trope.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
D&D3 is the edition where I stopped playing because fuck this maths and feats and calculation noise. I'm amazed PF is as popular as it still is as a tabletop system. I find PF players are more interested in munchkining it out and / or just reveling in their full-blown autism than in the actual game of high adventure and derring-do.

Well, guess what. Turns out a lot of people understood and enjoyed D&D3 rules. The proof is that they're still around in the form of Pathfinder. You have to be like the only one left outside the party.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,998
W8MH9uB.jpg


Whoever it was that referred to this game as 'Pathfinder: Cuckmaker' earlier in this thread sure wasn't kidding.
 

Curratum

Guest
D&D3 is the edition where I stopped playing because fuck this maths and feats and calculation noise. I'm amazed PF is as popular as it still is as a tabletop system. I find PF players are more interested in munchkining it out and / or just reveling in their full-blown autism than in the actual game of high adventure and derring-do.

Well, guess what. Turns out a lot of people understood and enjoyed D&D3 rules. The proof is that they're still around in the form of Pathfinder. You have to be like the only one left outside the party.

Me and the massive chunk of players that migrated into 5E, which at least makes an effort to keep things relatively sensible and make some sense.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
D&D3 is the edition where I stopped playing because fuck this maths and feats and calculation noise. I'm amazed PF is as popular as it still is as a tabletop system. I find PF players are more interested in munchkining it out and / or just reveling in their full-blown autism than in the actual game of high adventure and derring-do.

Well, guess what. Turns out a lot of people understood and enjoyed D&D3 rules. The proof is that they're still around in the form of Pathfinder. You have to be like the only one left outside the party.

Me and the massive chunk of players that migrated into 5E, which at least makes an effort to keep things relatively sensible and make some sense.

Don't know about that. My point is that Third Edition was massively successful.
 

Curratum

Guest
Look, man, I don't even play or enjoy corporate WotC D&D. For years now I've been running and playing rule mashups of ancient editions and retroclones. I just don't like modern D&D all that much, I like the simplicity of the early editions, streamlined and further cleaned up by the OSR.

I just don't like systems with rules for everything.
 

Mexi

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
6,811
Well, Pillars of Eternity killer currently dropped off as #1 global seller and sitting at mixed reviews.
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
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Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,046
Whoever it was that referred to this game as 'Pathfinder: Cuckmaker' earlier in this thread sure wasn't kidding.

I started my first character determined to dick as many people as possible but surprisingly nobody immediately craved the D. Amiri doesn't mention sex, Valerie is a stuck up bitch, Linzi probably only read about intercourse in books, Jaethal said fucking doesn't do it for her anymore. Not even that dryad jumped on my bone.

3/10 worst CRPG of the decade.
 

panda

Savant
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
398
Ok, met that hurr-durr "impossible" skull. It has like 10hp thus can be easily killed by:
  • lucky crit
  • 1 or 2 true strike attacks
  • 2-3 rounds of aoe potions spam, each bottle will deal at least 1 dmg
Granted it wiped my lvl2 party now, but when i'll return with allmighty lvl 3 heroes and anti fear scroll for undead chick the thing will have no chance.
And people seriosly cry "awful balance" over this? If anything it is actually the opposite.

But, yeah, apparently "I want to smite 14 AC bandits all day long" is the way modern gaymers dream it to be.
 
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tjorb

Novice
Joined
Aug 4, 2015
Messages
13
Anyone playing dragon disciple? Do you get to look like a half dragon with wings? Would like to see some screenshots.
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
W8MH9uB.jpg


Whoever it was that referred to this game as 'Pathfinder: Cuckmaker' earlier in this thread sure wasn't kidding.
The Rule34 on Octavia foot-related porn cannot be far away.

Jaethal said fucking doesn't do it for her anymore
Not surprising - she has no blood pressure either.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,445
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Have you looked at GOG's sales indicators? There is no doubt it's blowing Deadfire out of the water, pun not intended.

Actually odd, Pathfinder: Kingmaker has gone DOWN the GOG bestseller charts since before it was released. It's now on the bottom of page 34 out of 53: https://www.gog.com/games?sort=bestselling&page=34&as=1649904300

Before it was on 31, same page as Deadfire.

And back up to 31 again: https://www.gog.com/games?sort=bestselling&page=31&as=1649904300

Not sure what's going on.
 
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MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
Man I do not get all the whining I'm seeing all over the internet about how difficult the game is. Now, I'll grant that the encounter balance isn't all that great and could be improved a lot, but with how modular the difficulty settings are there's really no excuse for all this complaining. "Oh, it's such bullshit, the game throws an enemy that does permanent ability damage to you early on." Haha yeah such bullshit it's not like there's an option to make resting heal all negative status effects including permanent ability damage, you nugget. "Oh, it's such bullshit, this boss hits harder than I think it should." There's a literal damn slider that allows you to tweak the amount of damage your party takes. Slide it down to only taking 90% damage to make it a bit easier, or 50% to make it a lot easier, or hell 200% to make it a lot harder. Like this game gives you such a massive breadth of control over your difficulty settings. "I don't like the way encounters are balanced" is a valid complaint for this game. I don't like it either. But "This game is unplayably difficult" should absolutely not be a complaint when you can literally custom tailor the difficulty to make it as easy or challenging as you want (well, within reason. We'll still probably need mods to make it really challenging. I wish I had the money to pay the Sword Coast Stratagems guy to mod every RPG).

It's something I've seen a lot with TBS campaigns too, especially with Age of Wonders. "Ugh I hate the campaign it's such bullshit, I keep getting my ass handed to me." "Well what level are you playing on?" "Hard." "Have you considered, you know, playing on Easy or Normal?" "No I'm a Hardcore Gamer™ and those levels are for casuals if I can't easily beat the game on hard difficulty my first time through that's the dev's fault." Like holy hell you know who gives a shit what difficulty level you play on? No one. That's who. Get over your damn e-peen already.

Again, I'm not excusing questionable encounter balance. I think Kingmaker was made with people who are familiar with Pathfinder in mind, and if you don't know the ruleset, I can see the game being punishingly difficult. Not all complaints about the balance are equal, though. "This boss you're supposed to fight at level 2 receives a +14 bonus to all his damage rolls" is a valid complaint. Like I said, easily dealt with by tweaking the difficulty, but still, you're using the tools to compensate for the dev's poor decisions, and that's not ideal. But there are also complaints about how enemy squads work as a team, and that's just silly.

Anyway, my continued impressions, in point form because I've already wasted enough space with ranting.

Combat is a lot of fun. Not to sound like a broken record, but turn based combat would be 1000x better. Still, it's tabletop Pathfinder goodness, with about ten million spells, feats, and special abilities creating a deep and rewarding experience.

Combat AI is terrible. Just atrocious. You're better off turning it off completely, otherwise you can spend the game watching Amiri get ganked because everyone just charges in, which means the fast-moving low-AC Barbarian will be bearing the brunt of enemy attacks.

Your companions are not strong. They're poorly optimized and generally underwhelming. This wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for two factors: First, the game is on the difficult side, and second, it contributes to the next problem...

Custom companions are prohibitively expensive. This is just obnoxious. I mean it's frigging Pathfinder. Half the point of the system is all the crazy options you have for characters. It's not juist about bringiing in companions that are maybe a bit stronger than the ones you have, it's about not wanting to start a new game every time you have an idea for a character you want to try out, like a demented mad bomber that's half-angel.

The voice acting doesn't get any better.

But still the game is just a blast. Already I'm seeing enough options that I'm excited to see how things will look different on future playthroughs. I think this game is one or two patches away from greatness.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Have you looked at GOG's sales indicators? There is no doubt it's blowing Deadfire out of the water, pun not intended.

Actually odd, Pathfinder: Kingmaker has gone DOWN the GOG bestseller charts since before it was released. It's now on the bottom of page 34 out of 53: https://www.gog.com/games?sort=bestselling&page=34&as=1649904300

Before it was on 31, same page as Deadfire.

And back up to 31 again: https://www.gog.com/games?sort=bestselling&page=31&as=1649904300

Not sure what's going on.
Most probably there is some delay between the refresh of stats on that page. Maybe we were still looking at data from before the release in the first day after release.
 
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Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
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Location
Ommadawn
I will never understand the RtWP haters. The games have a fucking option where it pauses at the end of every turn, so it's just simultaneous resolution. If you're anal-retentive to the point where you need combat with 4 bandits to take 40 minutes, my condolences.
Please tell me how you can properly calculate movement in this pile of shit RTwP. 'Cause I don't see a distance meter anywhere in the game when moving.
By approximation. Just like in BG.

Just like in the real world.
Thankfully we live in a real world where ToEE solved this problem.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,525
I will never understand the RtWP haters. The games have a fucking option where it pauses at the end of every turn, so it's just simultaneous resolution. If you're anal-retentive to the point where you need combat with 4 bandits to take 40 minutes, my condolences.
Please tell me how you can properly calculate movement in this pile of shit RTwP. 'Cause I don't see a distance meter anywhere in the game when moving.

You honestly don't. In all my years of playing D&D, I never calculated distance for round-to-round combat purposes in the tabletop as well. To me, this sort of thing is a chore in any medium.

But, you know, D&D3 was designed to work with minis (they can be $old!) and grids, and movement rate mattered. This is easily transported to a computer game, but devs have to try and implement it, not do things inanely.

Make-believe distances in the DM's and player's heads isn't comparable to a videogame that needs to calculate these distances.
They did it perfectly in Gold Box... And with the sole exception (maybe) of ToEE, they have fucked it up ever since.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
.
Well, Pillars of Eternity killer currently dropped off as #1 global seller and sitting at mixed reviews.
negative reviews=game is hard.

There are 6 premade difficulty settings and anything above “Normal” basically adds flat AC, chance to hit, and damage to all enemies. This makes almost every encounter end with 1-2 downed characters on “Normal” which is the level 3 difficulty. Many people have even complained of not making it out of the tutorial on “Challenging” which is the level 4 difficulty.
The game allows you to tweak how much damage enemies can deal to you. You can, and are expected to, do this in between every fight. “Normal” has enemy damage set to 80% with Weak crits. “Challenging” bumps this up to 100% (full damage from enemies) and Normal crits. Playing on “Challenging” I ended up reloading fights 5-10 times until I got dice rolls lucky enough to hit regular bandits that had 32AC for no real reason. You will spend your whole game changing enemy damage up or down until you feel you earned your win, but not with too many deaths. This is a D&D game where you must pick the difficulty of your own encounters and if you pick wrong you will retry over and over…
I have several issues with Pathfinder: Kingmaker, but the most frustrating one is the difficulty. I had intended to play the game on it's Challenging mode, until the tutorial level proved nearly impossible. Even on Normal difficulty, with reduced enemy damage and crit severity, the challenge is all over the place. I've had to reload half a dozen times after getting forced into a random encounter I could not retreat from and that I had no way to beat. In true sandbox style, enemies are placed in your path with no apparent regard for the level you're likely to encounter them at - swarms at level 2 with no AOE, incorporeal ghosts at the same level with a fear aura, a random large elemental that one-shots any of your characters. If I could at least retreat from a fight and come back to it later, I wouldn't mind getting thrown without warning into an unwinnable situation, but if there is a retreat function I've yet to find it. It doesn't help that the story characters you get are very much not optimized - a Cleric without the Charisma for Selective Channeling is my current biggest frustration.
It's with a heavy heart that I write this, I've watched this game with quite a bit of interest, being a pathfinder player myself. The truth of the matter is that some builds in this game simply don't work. My first characters were extremely confusing, because modeling them after my own pathfinder character, I came to realize that one of their keystone abilities in early game simply does not work. As in, it wasn't coded into the game. Similarly, at least on the "challenging" difficulty (Which I chose to get the most pathfinder esq experience.) many of the builds are non-functional in the early game. An infernal charm based sorcerer? Good luck not getting one shotted by literally everything while you try to get out a spell.
- Highest difficulty setting has no thought or design to it. It is just pointlessly overtuned. While lower difficulty settings are boring.
unfair is unfair.....

Being somewhat familiar with the system, I knew being a nonspellcaster would probably screw me out of the gate, so I picked Magus. Character creation is good, if a bit lacking on some elements like Inquisitor Judgments when class bonus feats are in a convenient list. Assigned my stats, got on to the tutorial, decided to stream it for friends. The introduction is almost entirely true to the module, and as such the story is... Well, having Snidely Whiplash twirl his moustache at me and then do obviously evil character things while treating me like a moron is anything but subtle. Even more astounding is that the clearly high-level NPC is plot-blind.

But let's leave story behind for now, yeah? Let's get into combat, or the utter maiming thereof. I played through on Challenging, as I figured I have enough experience with this genre and system to handle it. Apparently Challenging means your enemies get a flat modifier to all their already heavily optimized stats. Meanwhile, you're stuck with the heavily unoptimized pre-genned characters who you barely have control over picking. You theoretically can design your own team later, but that starts at 2000 gold a head and scales up as you level up. You finish the tutorial at level 2. Good luck scrounging up the money for that, chummer.
tipical negative review.

maybe just play on story mode?

i have the suspect that the game at the end (with the tipical itemization of a 3.5/pathfinder game) will become easy mode if not played at top difficulty but of course at low level with 8-16 HP characters get raped by a single crit.

many peoples on these review claim that they are experienced roleplayer still they are surprised that a lv 1 mage or sorcere or similar class can't even exit the tutorial in challenge mode, many negative review are about that, magus that complain they are not prowerfull. they pick up caster because "caster are strong in 3.5/pathfinder" then they forgot about the little detail about a caster at lvl 1.

these are actually positive review in my opinion.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,525
Look, man, I don't even play or enjoy corporate WotC D&D. For years now I've been running and playing rule mashups of ancient editions and retroclones. I just don't like modern D&D all that much, I like the simplicity of the early editions, streamlined and further cleaned up by the OSR.

I just don't like systems with rules for everything.
The early editions had problems with doing anything other than fight, something that is a legacy of DnD's tabletop wargame roots. 3.x actually introduced skills and non-combat activities on a scale that DnD never had.
 

Serus

Arcane
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Jul 16, 2005
Messages
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Small but great planet of Potatohole
I will never understand the RtWP haters. The games have a fucking option where it pauses at the end of every turn, so it's just simultaneous resolution. If you're anal-retentive to the point where you need combat with 4 bandits to take 40 minutes, my condolences.
Please tell me how you can properly calculate movement in this pile of shit RTwP. 'Cause I don't see a distance meter anywhere in the game when moving.

You honestly don't. In all my years of playing D&D, I never calculated distance for round-to-round combat purposes in the tabletop as well. To me, this sort of thing is a chore in any medium.

But, you know, D&D3 was designed to work with minis (they can be $old!) and grids, and movement rate mattered. This is easily transported to a computer game, but devs have to try and implement it, not do things inanely.

Make-believe distances in the DM's and player's heads isn't comparable to a videogame that needs to calculate these distances.
They did it perfectly in Gold Box... And with the sole exception (maybe) of ToEE, they have fucked it up ever since.
Knights of the Chalice A Certain roots eating Frenchman wants a word with you.

Also old Dark Sun games had turn based D&D, but not grid iirc?
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,525
I will never understand the RtWP haters. The games have a fucking option where it pauses at the end of every turn, so it's just simultaneous resolution. If you're anal-retentive to the point where you need combat with 4 bandits to take 40 minutes, my condolences.
Please tell me how you can properly calculate movement in this pile of shit RTwP. 'Cause I don't see a distance meter anywhere in the game when moving.

You honestly don't. In all my years of playing D&D, I never calculated distance for round-to-round combat purposes in the tabletop as well. To me, this sort of thing is a chore in any medium.

But, you know, D&D3 was designed to work with minis (they can be $old!) and grids, and movement rate mattered. This is easily transported to a computer game, but devs have to try and implement it, not do things inanely.

Make-believe distances in the DM's and player's heads isn't comparable to a videogame that needs to calculate these distances.
They did it perfectly in Gold Box... And with the sole exception (maybe) of ToEE, they have fucked it up ever since.
Knights of the Chalice A Certain roots eating Frenchman wants a word with you.

Also old Dark Sun games had turn based D&D, but not grid iirc?
No, he won't. Their white flag factory blew up again, so he has nothing to say until it is rebuilt.

Yes. Dark Sun was turn-based. And you know what? Remember all the trouble you had targeting fireballs in BG and NWN, praying like hell that you won't nuke yourself? Dark Sun had the area of effect indicator already!
 

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