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[Poll] Which kinds of games are RPGs?

Which kinds of games of RPGs?


  • Total voters
    70

Roqua

Prospernaut
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YES!
I just loaded up steam and there is a cat picture puzzle game listed in under the rpg genre. The fucking idiots have not just won, but destroyed any semblance of reason and sanity and made it impossible for there to be any chance of recovery.

Bravo, guys.

Here is a picture as I know it is your preferred means of communication-

:popamole::codexisforindividualswithgenderidentityissues::bunkertime::happytrollboy:
 

Giauz Ragnacock

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Jul 16, 2011
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OK, here goes:

A role-playing game is like the trend of games Dungeons & Dragons kicked off in 1974. The caveat: Computer/videogames only began a few years earlier with 1962's Space War. In D&D one plays a fantasy character who traverses towns, dungeons, etc with other fantasy characters and fights monsters, basically. In Space War and games with framing devices like being a starship pilot or a soldier fighting robots, like in the classic arcade game 'Berserk', the computer console is the medium one play pretends to be these roles. I am not suggesting all games with narrative framing are RPGs. I am only bringing up something felipepepe wrote in a Gamasutra article that explored how PNP RPGs and narrative computer/videogames are unique beasts that co-evolved to fill that pretend fantasy niche that lots of games fill.

Now that is out of the way, I think a CRPG in the sense that we use the term is:

A computer/video game using a narrative framing device to place a player in the role of an individual or a small group of characters through means resembling a board game with player tokens or play with action figures, means that include strict mechanical rules limiting how players can manipulate the token(s)/action figure(s) to achieve both game mechanic and narrative goals within the electronic game including learning new skills and gaining resources such as items or even mechanical advancement of the token(s)/action figure(s).

***

This definition describes both turn-based and action CRPGs as well as non-linear and linear CRPGs (linear RPGs both meet the above definition while other games like pure text adventures or first-person shooters, for example, do not, and they follow conventions in non-linear RPGs that produce the stories games like JRPGs like to tell). I don't think this is an all encompassing definition, but it seems to me to be more specific than past definitions. The PC is not so much a physics doll that one controls close to 1:1 but a board game piece or an action figure after you and your friends get tired of banging them together and come up with some rules for how the story can go, some method for banging them together and when one of them can get stronger/"MORE POWER!". Do you guys think there's something to this?
 
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RNGsus

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I just loaded up steam and there is a cat picture puzzle game listed in under the rpg genre. The fucking idiots have not just won, but destroyed any semblance of reason and sanity and made it impossible for there to be any chance of recovery.

Bravo, guys.

Here is a picture as I know it is your preferred means of communication-

:popamole::codexisforindividualswithgenderidentityissues::bunkertime::happytrollboy:
Leave kid friendly, bunker, and tranny dex trolls out of this.
 

Ranarama

Learned
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
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604
"In Fallout 1 you race against the clock to bring back a water chip before you vault runs out of water, it is therefore a racing game. Herp derp."

Holy shit, guys he's right. Time to start RacingCodex.net
 

Jason Liang

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Question #1: Why don't we consider World of Warcraft (and presumably Everquest and SW: ToR) rpgs?

Question #2: Where to draw the line between rpgs and squad tactics games? It seems we agree that Dragonfall is an rpg, but for example I don't see why Icewind Dale is an rpg and Invisible Inc and Dungeon Rats are not. So if we map it out like so, where is the line?

Temple of Elemental Evil ->
Shadowrun Dragonfall ->
Shining Force 2 ->
Final Fantasy Tactics ->
Banner Saga, Rance IX ->
Icewind Dale, Invisible Inc ->
Dungeon Rats ->
Jagged Alliance 2, HBS Battletech ->
Shadow Tactics ->
X-Com ->
Battle Brothers? ->
Battle Chess ->
Chess
 

The Great ThunThun*

How DARE you!?
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Joined
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Let us proceed like this instead:

Is a D&D session an RPG?
Is a D&D session with only one char v. Environment (DM) an RPG?
Is a D&D session with only one char v. Environment (DM) without a story/ campaign, i.e. just against a dungeon an RPG?
Is the above game without any loot, level up an RPG?
 

DraQ

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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Let us proceed like this instead:

Is a D&D session an RPG?
Is a D&D session with only one char v. Environment (DM) an RPG?
Is a D&D session with only one char v. Environment (DM) without a story/ campaign, i.e. just against a dungeon an RPG?
Is the above game without any loot, level up an RPG?
The answer is yes to all above. Any other answer yields insanity.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

Scholar
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Messages
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Let us proceed like this instead:

Is a D&D session an RPG?
Is a D&D session with only one char v. Environment (DM) an RPG?
Is a D&D session with only one char v. Environment (DM) without a story/ campaign, i.e. just against a dungeon an RPG?
Is the above game without any loot, level up an RPG?

As long as there are still SOME board-game style rules to limit player control over their PC to act as the "videogame controler" then this pretend play is still in the bounds of a game. Even without loot or level up there probably should be some progression of resource, even a negative correlation like running out of missiles in Space War, to give the player a metric for how well they are controling their PC since they have no actual controller device. Even something meta like dice pools, a card deck, tokens, points, etc would be fine.
 

DraQ

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As long as there are still SOME board-game style rules to limit player control over their PC to act as the "videogame controler" then this pretend play is still in the bounds of a game. Even without loot or level up there probably should be some progression of resource, even a negative correlation like running out of missiles in Space War, to give the player a metric for how well they are controling their PC since they have no actual controller device. Even something meta like dice pools, a card deck, tokens, points, etc would be fine.
DOOM is an RPG.
:gumpyhead:
To make the issue even more clear:

Do you even need the character in the above example to *ever* level up?
Do you need it to get Xp from killing/solving quests?
Do you need the skills/stats?

For that last point, I think you do. Because if you switch that off the game becomes a wargame. Thus, from this reduction we see that the thing which makes D&D an RPG is the stats and the skills.
No, no, and yes - seems we agree on that one.

Like I said RPG is defined by some mechanical framework that allows making characters that differ significantly in terms of provided gameplay (and not just in terms of their relative strength - preferably make the gameplay different enough to make such comparison impossible).

Everything else including any specific genre of the game defined by all the remaining mechanics is optional or can be completely arbitrary.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

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As long as there are still SOME board-game style rules to limit player control over their PC to act as the "videogame controler" then this pretend play is still in the bounds of a game. Even without loot or level up there probably should be some progression of resource, even a negative correlation like running out of missiles in Space War, to give the player a metric for how well they are controling their PC since they have no actual controller device. Even something meta like dice pools, a card deck, tokens, points, etc would be fine.
DOOM is an RPG.
:gumpyhead:

I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. Doom and games like it are direct control versus having a board-game-like set of rules be the "controler" (rolling dice, picking up cards, button/menu options, etc).
 

DraQ

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As long as there are still SOME board-game style rules to limit player control over their PC to act as the "videogame controler" then this pretend play is still in the bounds of a game. Even without loot or level up there probably should be some progression of resource, even a negative correlation like running out of missiles in Space War, to give the player a metric for how well they are controling their PC since they have no actual controller device. Even something meta like dice pools, a card deck, tokens, points, etc would be fine.
DOOM is an RPG.
:gumpyhead:

I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. Doom and games like it are direct control versus having a board-game-like set of rules be the "controler" (rolling dice, picking up cards, button/menu options, etc).
Protip:
They are called "Role-Play Games" rather than "Board-Game Play Games" for a reason.
In before "Roll Play Games".
 
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aweigh

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tenor.gif
 

Giauz Ragnacock

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As long as there are still SOME board-game style rules to limit player control over their PC to act as the "videogame controler" then this pretend play is still in the bounds of a game. Even without loot or level up there probably should be some progression of resource, even a negative correlation like running out of missiles in Space War, to give the player a metric for how well they are controling their PC since they have no actual controller device. Even something meta like dice pools, a card deck, tokens, points, etc would be fine.
DOOM is an RPG.
:gumpyhead:

I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. Doom and games like it are direct control versus having a board-game-like set of rules be the "controler" (rolling dice, picking up cards, button/menu options, etc).
Protip:
They are called "Role-Play Games" rather than "Board-Game Play Games" for a reason.
In before "Roll Play Games".

I am not contesting that. I am hearkening back to D&D's and RPGs' in generals' roots in the trapping of wargames, which used tokens and structured rules rather than simply dexterity to manipulate the pieces much like board-games. My goal is to try to succinctly show a common thread in games we call RPGs. I appreciate help over sarcastic jabs at straw men.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

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Super Mario Bros, Pong, and Pac Man, are also RPGs... You role play a fat plumber, a dash playing tennis in monochrome, and a yellow circle eating yellow pills inside a maze.

While those games do have narrative framing devices- they are games trying to simulate stories or activities we can understand (not so much with Pac Man)- the player is directly controling the game piece rather than handing off at least some control (as in action RPGs) to structured rules and abstractions like dice or stat pools that also have elements of progress unrelated to player dexterity. I'm spitballing not trying to be any expert (as many people here know I don't have much actual experience playing RPGs, but I love reading and talking with people who love to play them).
 

TemplarGR

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While those games do have narrative framing devices- they are games trying to simulate stories or activities we can understand (not so much with Pac Man)- the player is directly controling the game piece rather than handing off at least some control (as in action RPGs) to structured rules and abstractions like dice or stat pools that also have elements of progress unrelated to player dexterity. I'm spitballing not trying to be any expert (as many people here know I don't have much actual experience playing RPGs, but I love reading and talking with people who love to play them).

I was being sarcastic... But yeah...
 

Swampy_Merkin

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You forgot the option: "all games", because literally every conscious human activity can be a role-playing game if you want it to be. If you're not capable of role-playing in your day to day interactions, then you're just a boring fucking normal-o and I feel sorry for you and would rather not spend even a second in your presence.

Get Creative.

Get Mental.

Make a Scene.

Don't let some dweeb autist programmer script your best stories.
 

Ventidius

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I'm surprised to see Wizardry doing so well. Serious Codex incline. :smug:
 

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