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Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep - Director's Cut

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
I doubt the budget was that much, but even if it was then some of that would have been taken care of by tax kickbacks / incentives from setting up the NOLA studio and the wedge of cash from Facebook/Oculus for making The Mage's Tale - some of which helped train the devs with the tools, and also allowed them to reuse some of the visual assets.

Still, I think this could have been a better game if they'd just taken the $1.5m backer money, added maybe $1m on top and then just made an actual Bard's Tale 4 rather than this... "re imagining". Played it for a couple more hours this weekend after the 2nd (7gb!!!!!! WTF?) patch. It's a bit better for sure, but it ain't going to change some of the more broken parts of it's overall design. Skills tree in particular is a grim as fuck.
 

Belegarsson

Think about hairy dwarfs all the time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Patron
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Oct 20, 2015
Messages
1,261
Location
Uwotopia
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
An RPG released in 2018 that doesn't show locations' name and save points on the map, no custom marker and no basic inventory sorting function...
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,607
ohDKCIO.jpg
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Still, I think this could have been a better game if they'd just taken the $1.5m backer money, added maybe $1m on top and then just made an actual Bard's Tale 4 rather than this... "re imagining".
^This.

I had supported (and probably will support) these kickstarters, but I would be lying if I didn't say that all these re-imaginings leave a bad taste in my mouth. Several kickstarters lure us in with the promise of creating another old-school RPG, but as soon as they get our money, they start reimagining them, in the hopes of reaching a wider audiance. But the backers didn't pay for that. They payed for an RPG faithful to the original game. Same for Pillars as well, and of course Broken Age from Double fine. Instead of using the money pledged for a true oldschool game, they try to make improvements nobody asked for. They are not satisfied with serving a nieche market, they want the big money. And of course that leads to inflated budget. After the failure of Torment and now this, I wonder what could be the financial situation of inXile.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,998
The esteemed and impartial gentlemen at GameSpot reviewed the game and gave it a 4/10, deeming it too casual for their monocled RPG tastes:

https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/the-bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep-review-lament/1900-6417002/
But with that said, Bard's Tale IV is too simplistic. Characters come with just four core stats (strength, constitution, armor class, and intelligence) that can basically only be adjusted with equipment and skills earned when leveling up. If you want to raise your constitution (which functions here as hit points, unlike a more traditional D&D system), for example, you need to put on armor, wield a bonus-granting weapon, or take a skill that gives a corresponding buff.

Serious customization is hard to come by. There aren't a lot of character choices provided beyond standard fantasy races like humans, elves, dwarves, and the goblin-like trow, and classes like fighters, practitioners (mages), rogues, and bards. Bards do feel somewhat unique due to their ability to power skills and magic in battle by chugging booze. Leveling up provides some ability to tweak your heroes, but choice is limited because you're allocated just a single point with each advancement to distribute among the four skill trees

Combat has a narrow focus. A handful of objective and spell points are given to the party to use collectively each turn, and you have to spend them on just four selected skill masteries from your overall pool of abilities. Attacks always hit, so strategizing involves looking through each hero's masteries, choosing what does the most damage, and deciding on the best enemy target. You can deal physical damage via melee and ranged attacks or mental damage via spells.

More serious issues arise due to problems with the level design and structure of the game's locales. The maps are huge and labyrinthine and that's befitting the history of dungeon crawlers, of course, but the game is too loaded with narrow corridors with minimal incentives. Despite the maze-like appearance, you are led in a linear fashion from Point A to Point B in the dungeon ruins of Skara Brae, the forest of Inshriach, or the tundra of Stronsea. There is little room for creativity, as both plot and maps run on rails from start to finish. Inaccessible areas are crudely blocked off with rubble or piles of crates, as well, reinforcing the feeling that you're playing a game of connect-the-dots with extra steps.

THE GOOD
Gorgeous Celtic-flavored soundtrack

THE BAD
Limited and repetitive systems governing character advancement and combat
Strictly linear map design with little or no room for creativity
Levels padded out with too many shallow puzzles
Dated visuals plagued with performance issues
Bugs cause regular crashes

4/10
 

BEvers

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
808
72 on Metacritic now.

When was the last time a AA RPG had such a bad reception from both critics and players?
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Developer
Joined
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Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
72 on Metacritic now.

When was the last time a AA RPG had such a bad reception from both critics and players?
72 is not a bad score on Metacritic for this kind of RPG. It's not good, but it's far from bad. The Steam score on the other hand, now that's bad. (55%)
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
I'm about as old-school as it gets, but no inventory sorting is just being shit for the sake of it.

On the other side of the coin, based on previous patch size - if they did add inventory sorting then I'm not sure I've got 150gb of space left on my SSD.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
The intro makes no sense anyway. Why can't you just make your own character? You can just replace her with your own like 10-15 mins later, which I assume everyone does.
That's a big assumption. Pretty sure inXile's idea is to draw in players who aren't hard core RPG fans. For example it turns out that a lot of players used premade characters in Wasteland 2, were too intimidated/lazy/casual to make their own. I didn't believe it at first either. Strange but true.

Actual achievements stats show somehow different picture: https://steamcommunity.com/stats/566090/achievements/

Keep Melody - 23.3%
Bard - 23.1%
Practitioner - 21.0%
Fighter - 16.9%
Rogue - 12.3%

(IIRC this order is exactly the order they list the classes at chargen screen.)
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Still, I think this could have been a better game if they'd just taken the $1.5m backer money, added maybe $1m on top and then just made an actual Bard's Tale 4 rather than this... "re imagining".
^This.

I had supported (and probably will support) these kickstarters, but I would be lying if I didn't say that all these re-imaginings leave a bad taste in my mouth. Several kickstarters lure us in with the promise of creating another old-school RPG, but as soon as they get our money, they start reimagining them, in the hopes of reaching a wider audiance. But the backers didn't pay for that.

I'm somewhat torn over that argument, actually.
Take PoE - if that Kickstarter has shown anything, then it's imo that there are pretty different ideas amongst the fans of said games, what the original experience actually was about. Sensuki, as an example, was a very vocal proponent of a specific playstyle which was probably not that typical for many other fans of the BG series. Yet for him it was the quintessential RTwP-experience.
In the case of BT4, they didn't exactly promise a real oldschool BT-trilogy experience anyway. Combined with the old in-engine video from the pitch it should have been quite clear that whatever the game turns out to be, it wouldn't be just a (graphically or otherwise) updated new version of the old games.

But that aside - Kickstarter imo turned out to be a nice way for small studios to finance their game. Those can also afford to do "real" oldschool stuff, since they don't require a very big audience. Anything that reaches A to AA territory (like Obsidian or inXile) simply can't fund a game on Kickstarter alone.
It would be great to see a kickstarter from a small, devoted studio reaching 1million+ territory. Yet, ironically, they lack the reach of the larger studios, no matter how much oldschool-appeal they might have.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
Wait, did I get a bug or are the dwarven ruins a tottaly pointless area that only has one elevator? I solved the gear puzzle, but the door that opens is blocked by a stone:

wPcmozi.jpg

gKyzwiZ.jpg

Considering how most passages show up on the mini-map even when they're closed, I get the feeling that this is intentional... there's nothing there.

They created an entire region, with with its own unique tileset, and didn't do ANYTHING with it.

:hmmm:
 

BEvers

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
808
Wait, did I get a bug or are the dwarven ruins a tottaly pointless area that only has one elevator? I solved the gear puzzle, but the door that opens is blocked by a stone:

wPcmozi.jpg

gKyzwiZ.jpg

Considering how most passages show up on the mini-map even when they're closed, I get the feeling that this is intentional... there's nothing there.

They created an entire region, with with its own unique tileset, and didn't do ANYTHING with it.

:hmmm:

The developers are running a campaign where people wishlisting the game will result in a lower MSRP on launch day; the 300,000 milestone has lowered the price to $34.99. A 500,000 milestone will lower it further to $29.99 and add in the Dwarven Dungeon of Haernhold DLC.

(so yeah they probably ran out of cash)
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
In the case of BT4, they didn't exactly promise a real oldschool BT-trilogy experience anyway. Combined with the old in-engine video from the pitch it should have been quite clear that whatever the game turns out to be, it wouldn't be just a (graphically or otherwise) updated new version of the old games.

I take your point in terms of the video - it does suggest that some things will change. However, also from the Kickstarter:

"The Bard’s Tale IV allows you to develop, progress and grow a party of adventurers as you see fit" - Nah, not really

"Like the originals, movement and dungeon design is grid-based, but the game allows you to toggle the grid off and move freely if you prefer." - Turned out to be the opposite, except there is no grid mode yet

"We have a passion for non-linear level design and The Bard’s Tale IV embraces this concept. While you explore the world, you will reach areas, obstacles, and monsters you won’t be able to defeat. By venturing out into new areas, developing additional skills and spells, or finding enchanted weapons and armor, you can return with a new set of tools better equipped for the job" - Well, it's pretty linear and there's no level grinding so nope.

"The Bard’s Tale IV is spearheaded by the same team that delivered the award-winning Wasteland 2" - Or, alternatively, they farm it out to a new team in New Orleans with a Creative Lead that boasts 10 years industry experience in MMO shooters.

etc.

However, I do agree that there was no commitment to making a game that plays the same as BT1-3.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
Just look at this:

LxT54U4.jpg


Maybe it's related to the mystery of why there's no dwarven/enemies NPCs in the game, or why they look so stupid... there's a statue here and it's a NORMAL, Tolkien-ish dwarf:

BpYPB1m.jpg
 

BEvers

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
808
It was meant to be free DLC too, so there probably wasn't too much work left to be done. Quite a prophetic tweet at any rate.

 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
"The Bard’s Tale IV allows you to develop, progress and grow a party of adventurers as you see fit" - Nah, not really
Well, outside of the questionable character-slot unlocking (which might be considered growing a party :M ), you do have a lot of possibilities to do just that...

"We have a passion for non-linear level design and The Bard’s Tale IV embraces this concept. While you explore the world, you will reach areas, obstacles, and monsters you won’t be able to defeat. By venturing out into new areas, developing additional skills and spells, or finding enchanted weapons and armor, you can return with a new set of tools better equipped for the job" - Well, it's pretty linear and there's no level grinding so nope.
There are instances where this is the case, though. E.g. early in Skara Brae Below. Also in the Lowlands. But generally it's true that many parts of the maps are relatively linear in terms of progression through them.

"The Bard’s Tale IV is spearheaded by the same team that delivered the award-winning Wasteland 2"
- Or, alternatively, they farm it out to a new team in New Orleans with a Creative Lead that boasts 10 years industry experience in MMO shooters.
Out of curiosity, what are those guys doing, anyway? Wasteland 3? Onwards to greener pastures elsewhere?
I got the feeling during the KS that BT4 was also kind of a way to make money for some other project (TToN?), with the hope that the income from that would eventually allow them to make BT4.

To me, the biggest issue with BT4 is still the screwed-up launch. Seems they have some suicidal tendencies there. Sure, some people are upset that the game doesn't play like this or that other game. It's still fun though, which is to me more important than whether it faitfully replicates BT1-3 or acchieves feature parity with Grimoire, or something.

Then again, I never considered myself a hardcore-fan of BT1-3 and backed BT4 also for a copy of Wasteland2. Together with the remastered versions of BT1-3 this actually turned out to be a good investment.
 

BEvers

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
808
Or, alternatively, they farm it out to a new team in New Orleans with a Creative Lead that boasts 10 years industry experience in MMO shooters.

Following that logic, inXile NOLA's next release could be much better than BT4:

d008R7L.jpg
 

BEvers

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
808
The esteemed and impartial gentlemen at GameSpot reviewed the game and gave it a 4/10, deeming it too casual for their monocled RPG tastes:

https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/the-bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep-review-lament/1900-6417002/

As Gamespot goes, so goes the nation: https://techraptor.net/content/bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep-review

The Bard’s Tale IV: Barrows Deep Review – The Never-Ending Ramble

The Bard’s Tale IV: Barrows Deep is a bit like a story told by Abe Simpson; you have no idea where it’s going, it’s referencing obscure events from aeons ago, and you suspect it might actually never end. You laugh and nod at the odd snippet, but mostly you’re thinking, “I hope someone calls me with terrible news so I have an excuse to leave.” Add in so many bugs that the game’s own rules seem to change on the fly, and you have The Bard’s Tale IV.

The Bard’s Tale is a classic RPG dungeon crawler franchise with a bit of a history. The first three games came out between 1985 and ’88. After that, the series went dark until 2004, when InXile developed the reimagining titled The Bard’s Tale, which was very different from its predecessors in both tone and gameplay. Fast forward to today, and The Bard’s Tale IV: Barrows Deep is once again completely different from any of the previous games.
Information can get really hard to follow in combat, especially when black squares obscure the screen.

There’s a dissonance between The Bard’s Tale IV’s mix of modern and old. The elements taken from the “box of old-school” all end up harming the final product. The save system, graphics, story, inventory, and details like not being able to refund your skill points – all these things feel like a pointless return to the past. The only things I liked were the puzzles and the turn-based combat, which were marred by the huge amount of technical issues.

I’ve experienced The Bard’s Tale IV in three distinct stages now. Pre-release, release, and post-patch one. The release patch fixed most of the incessant crashing, and the first patch fixed a bunch of bugs. This latest patch was a bit like cleaning a filthy, greasy table by sweeping it with a bare hand. Sure, all those questionable lumps are off the table, but there’s a long way to go before you remember what color that top used to be.

The tooltips are wrong so often that I’m not sure whether I’ve just misunderstood how they work. Sometimes a skill will alter the effects of an ability or the damage of a spell. It’s completely haphazard whether the UI shows this change or not. When you hover your mouse over an enemy with an attack, it shows how much health they will lose from that attack. By the end of the game, I didn’t trust that indicator one bit. In fact, I didn’t trust most of the numbers the game gave me, resorting instead to going by feeling.

The beginning of the game is a chore to get through, due to the eternity I spent in a large and dreary cavern. It essentially amounts to the infamous sewer level of every old-school RPG. Ironically, I think this is exactly the kind of thing the 2004 version of The Bard’s Tale would poke fun at, being a bit of a spoof of traditional RPGs at the time. When the game finally releases you into the world, it opens up, but only a little.

As you explore, you’ll discover that the music of The Bard’s Tale IV is nothing short of amazing. Authentic Gaelic songs sprinkle the world, haunting, beautiful, and joyous. Unfortunately, rather than elevate the experience, they feel apart from the game itself. It’s like plonking a big shiny basket of delicious fruit on top of that filthy table I mentioned earlier. The dwarves, elves, and humans all have the same Scottish accents and sing the same kind of songs. These supposedly separate and distinctive cultures all melt together into a big homogeneous blob.

The narrative design feels dated, but not in a nostalgic way. The NPCs have animations but never move from their spot. You won’t see someone just walking, except for patrolling enemies. Huge walls of text plague the dialogue, which often comes across as something you’d hear at a renaissance fair. The player is mostly driven through the story by Rabbie, a bard in the adventurer’s guild. With quite a few eccentric characters inhabiting the world, I don’t understand why Rabbie must be so bland. His name may as well be “Quest Giver”. There’s nothing to invest you in the story, besides “or else evil wins”. The world feels like it was constructed around the player, making it static and boring. If you could just get on with it without thinking about the setting, I wouldn’t mind, but you’re constantly halted by bloated descriptions and exposition.

In my first impressions, I said that The Bard’s Tale IV has a personality crisis. I can now clarify this. After the first fourteen hours, the game does acquire its own personality, but it’s not a personality you want to spend fifty hours with. The game is like a slow, rattling, screws-falling-off Disneyland ride with the shiny plastic faces of chattering puppets all around you.

The banter between companions is the best part of the writing, in my opinion. It’s funny and it reveals things about the world around you in a more natural way. Even the player character has a collection of completely different lines for the banter, which is based on what voice you chose in character creation. This is again hobbled by technical issues, such as voice lines cutting out when overlapping, or all sound in cut-scenes disappearing – cut-scenes that you can’t skip.

In character creation, you pick between a number of races which each has their own passive ability. For example, dwarves can’t move in combat. There are four classes to choose from: Fighter, Rogue, Bard, and Practitioner, which is a spellcaster. Each class has around four skill trees. For some reason, it’s impossible to refund skill points you’ve picked. There’s also no confirmation when picking a skill. If you misclick, that’s it – you’re stuck with it forever. By the time you get to grips with what’s good and what isn’t, you’ll be halfway through the game. Despite not letting you reallocate points, the game will let you create an entirely new character. This will cost you a mercenary coin each time (earned by going through the main story). I don’t understand why the player is forced to create a new character instead of just reallocating their points.

The classes feel distinctive enough in combat, which is tactical and exciting. It plays out on a 4×4 grid, which might sound small, but the complexity grows as you progress and acquire companions. The difficulty can catch you by surprise. Sometimes it’s fair, but sometimes not. One issue I had with the combat was how quickly things could go to hell without my input. I played quite damage heavy, and I’m not sure playing defensively is viable. This meant that if the enemy team got their turn first, half my team would be dead by the time I got to act at all. Unfortunately, a lot of the remaining fun in the combat is sucked away by the sporadically slow response time after selecting actions, the difficulty of selecting certain tiles with your cursor, and the false information the UI displays.

The amount of backtracking and retreading of old ground was a source of great frustration. Most of it (but not all) was due to the save system. You save at stone pillars, and some allow you to consume them for a lump sum of XP. When you interact with such a pillar, your mouse will hover over “consume” by default, which will inevitably lead you to mess this up at least once. Since the difficulty can spike without warning, it often seemed wiser to go back to a previous save pillar than risk progressing until another one showed up.

The big issue here is that you can only save once at pillars you can consume. After that, you’ll need to save at a different pillar, after which you can again save at the first one. I can’t see any benefit to this incomprehensible mechanic. There is nothing good about that sense of anxiety and frustration that rises with the increased time you’ll have to spend redoing puzzles or fighting the same enemies.

Another source of the backtracking is the graphics and the map design. Labyrinthine corridors are a hallmark of dungeon crawlers, but memorable locations and detailed environments can make this more enjoyable. In The Bard’s Tale IV, the muddled textures often blended together, making it hard to navigate and remember locations, especially in the open world. I did really enjoy some of the dungeons’ aesthetics though, which were similar to something by H.R. Giger.

The most disappointing thing about The Bard’s Tale IV isn’t that I haven’t enjoyed it, because that’s not true. It’s that I repeatedly start enjoying it for very brief moments, only to have that enjoyment dropped into a black hole, inside a volcano, filled with tears. I’m never able to write it off completely, because it pulls me back, then breaks me down again.

For example: towards the end of the game, I started using the accompanying Guidebook. The developers thought that people might get stuck, or not like puzzles, so they made a free guide. Great, I think. Then, I start finding errors in the guide. Puzzle solutions which are straight up incorrect, and directions which are wrong. Why Bard’s Tale? You had me! Another idea I liked was the puzzle weapons; rare items that, when inspected, contains puzzle mechanisms on the weapon itself. As you solve them, the weapon gains new abilities. Unfortunately, text that should have appeared often didn’t, and some puzzles were hard to see because of the camera angle. Mistakes were irreversible, so you’d get stuck with a ruined puzzle weapon.

The same for the amazing music – I’m walking down a path, loving the lilting melody and mysterious sounding lyrics when I run into a guy who tells me he’s about to sing me a song. This is going to be great, I think. It isn’t. It’s really bad, actually. It’s not even a song, it’s just mumbling, and I’m not sure if it’s a joke, because there’s no punchline.

The Bard’s Tale IV: Barrows Deep hides a few good moments inside a mess of a game. It feels dated not for its old-school inspirations, but for its execution of those ideas. The world and story lack flavor, despite having a couple of memorable and funny characters. If the combat didn’t move forward in odd performance hiccups, it would be enjoyable in itself. For die-hard fans of dungeon crawlers and puzzles, I’d say this is only barely worth a try. I think how InXile is resuscitating old-school games is great, but unfortunately, The Bard’s Tale IV is a huge swing and a miss for me. For what it’s worth, at least they swung.

Techraptor reviewed The Bard’s Tale IV: Barrows on PC with a copy provided by InXile Entertainment.

4.0 - Mediocre


Summary
The poor save system and technical issues combine to create something more frustrating than the sum of its parts. Combat is decent and the music is fantastic, but overall not worth the time spent in the rest of the game. You can instead just listen to the OST.

Pros
  • Fantastic Music
  • Some Funny Banter And Characters
Cons
  • So Many Bugs
  • Save System Is Distilled Pain
  • Clunky UI
  • Bland Setting
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,084
It was meant to be free DLC too, so there probably wasn't too much work left to be done. Quite a prophetic tweet at any rate.



But we are not happy. So?
 

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