Which is better,PK or PoE: Dumpsterfire?

[Zer0wing]

It had both systems in it. I personally never played it with the TB on. Just let them smack each other on the head and watch.

Arcanum is too frantic for RT with it's twitchy animations and high gameplay speed it's hard to keep track of what's going on in combat encounters with more than one enemy, leading to hitting pause button so often you'd just play TB anyway.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It had both systems in it. I personally never played it with the TB on. Just let them smack each other on the head and watch.

Arcanum is too frantic for RT with it's twitchy animations and high gameplay speed it's hard to keep track of what's going on in combat encounters with more than one enemy, leading to hitting pause button so often you'd just play TB anyway.

Especially when your or the enemy's Dexterity starts reaching the 20s

 

[Darth Canoli]

TB fetishists are like the Huana - superficially imitating an ancient culture without understanding the meaning of its rituals.

While Real-Time shit is clearly a thing of the future, people eating so much pesticides and endocrinal disruptors nowadays they can't stay in place anymore but they're too fat to move their asses and do some sport so they need real-time video games to vent their "extra" energy.

Poor us, we're fucked by your retarded way of life.

 

[fantadomat]

It had both systems in it. I personally never played it with the TB on. Just let them smack each other on the head and watch.

Arcanum is too frantic for RT with it's twitchy animations and high gameplay speed it's hard to keep track of what's going on in combat encounters with more than one enemy, leading to hitting pause button so often you'd just play TB anyway.

Oh yeah,still never had a problem with watching them beat the shit of each other. TB was just too slow,never bothered with it. I remember the first time i put it on by mistake,i was thinking that it was just another bug.

 

[Black_Willow]

2018, the year most of the Codex chose meat and potatoes generic tradfant over extremely flawed attempts at being experimental (Deadfire, Tides of Numenera).

BG-hating Classic Codex would be aghast.

The problem with the above mentioned games is that none of them is an RPG, they're adventure games with stats :VaultDweller2007:

 

[Israfael]

What I personally dislike about PoE (apart from walls of text, Str-based casters and other usual gripes) is the fact that it was a self-serving endeavour wrapped in a hypocritical 'critique' of a system that already worked and was accepted by the players. Sawyer and his compatriots simply used our money to make a game they wanted, not the game we expected to get. After decades of working with D&D, it seems they got really tired of it and tried to do something to spite the system (and by extension, us, the players), create a contraption that worked in a completely opposite and unnatural way. Unfortunately, they succeeded, but hopefully, PT:KM will inspire others to do something that we want, not something their artistic, connosieur self wishes to express and impunge on the masses.

 

[AwesomeButton]

For the record, I like many TB RPGs. Unlike the tryhards, I make a distinction between good and bad games, before I make a distinction between TB and RtwP.

What I personally dislike about PoE (apart from walls of text, Str-based casters and other usual gripes) is the fact that it was a self-serving endeavour wrapped in a hypocritical 'critique' of a system that already worked and was accepted by the players. Sawyer and his compatriots simply used our money to make a game they wanted, not the game we expected to get.

True, and we are lucky that it turned out at least somewhat good, especially with the competition it used to have at the time (next to none).

 

[Max Damage]

RTwP works best in games that, shockingly, were designed from scratch to be RTwP, like 7,62 High Calibre. If you're going to adapt TB to RTwP and vice versa, something is going to get lost in transaltion, like overall combat flow. Of course combat system alone won't make a game great (see: vanilla ToEE), but surely it must be easier to design encounters in a game where combat itself doesn't feel and flow like something brown. I haven't played Kingmaker yet, but PoE felt like NWN2 all over again, except with no good/decent Act 2. Despite technically running on better game engine overall, all encounters were forgettable, and somehow they fucked up characters creation and combat itself (seriously, what the fuck happened to hard counters, prebuffing and sensible attacks of opportunity?). And let's not get started on setting, how it's integrated into gameplay itself, and characters (or lack of thereof). No vote for now, because fuck buying games on release, but I doubt Kingmaker is any worse than PoE2.

 

[Serus]

TB fetishists Infinity Engine games fetishists are like the Huana - superficially imitating an ancient culture without understanding the meaning of its rituals.

FTFY.

See, others can make stupid strawmen too, You don't have a monopoly mister "I call everyone I disagree with tryhard because I don't have anything else to say".

 

[AwesomeButton]

Maybe you are right with the fix. I wouldn't know because I am not an IE games fetishist. My stance is already written a few posts above. You won't see me shitting on TB games solely because they are turn based, or singing praises to crappy RtwP games. In fact I've poured much more criticism over RtwP (isometric) games on this forum than I have on any TB game.

 

[Serus]

Maybe you are right with the fix. I wouldn't know because I am not an IE games fetishist. My stance is already written a few posts above. You won't see me shitting on TB games solely because they are turn based, or singing praises to crappy RtwP games. In fact I've poured much more criticism over RtwP (isometric) games on this forum than I have on any TB game.

Same here and so is mine. Neither am I a "fetishist" nor are other people you disagree with "fetishists" of anything. See? That works both ways. And yet You keep calling everyone you disagree with "tryhards" in every second post. And now also "fetishist".

 

[AwesomeButton]

If you are not a fetishist who says a TB RPG is better just because it's TB, then no need to get triggered.

 

[Serus]

If you are not a fetishist who says a TB RPG is better just because it's TB, then no need to get triggered.

"If you are not..." - nice passive-agressive tone you got here. I like the spirit! Let me see:
No, no need to get triggered, obviously. Nice we have an agreement on something. See, we can reach some consensus after all.

Can we also agree that there is no need to call people one disagrees with a "tryhard" over and over again because one is incapable of formulating an actual argument? Can we?

 

[Xeon]

It probably should be standard to offer an option for TB games to either speed up the animation of attacks/movements or just skip it.

Edit:
Speaking of skipping, kinda wish you could skip the interactive main menu, kinda cool seeing it at first but gets kinda of a hassle after a while.

 

[Tito Anic]

The original Fallouts were released more or less in the same period with BG and had a turn based system. BUT, combat was atrocious as a result. It was fun as long as you faced 2-4 enemies. Above 4, or even worse if you had party members yourself, it was a nightmare to complete even a simple skirmish.

 

[Serus]

It probably should be standard to offer an option for TB games to either speed up the animation of attacks/movements or just skip it.

Yep, turn based, especially in "isometric" view with a lot of lengthy detailed animations for every single move possible can be in danger of getting too slow. Actually small indie games have some paradoxical advantage there because the customers do not expect them to have tons of detailed animations. Bigger studios like Firaxis (not crpg but the principle is the same) went with low number of units on the battlefield at the same time (max 6 on your side and usually only 1 pod consisting of only a few aliens). But there are other ways. Limit the numbers of trash encounters is a good start (and a good advice in general, regardless of TB or not). Faster/simpler animations as an option. More abstract presentation in general helps as it doesn't require "realistic" animations. Some tricks like if an AI is about to make a move action with several units - animate it all at once. And so on. Basically you need not to be retarded about designing a TB game and you won't have a problem with the tempo.

 

[aweigh]

Best combat is Wiz-style no animations (or little of them) fast turn-based with heavy abstraction. Doing this well requires very good balancing though and is harder to achieve than most other RPG combat systems.

I understand the need for animations though since in today's gaming market retards will say a game is "outdated" if it doesn't have them or whatever, and there is no harsher onus on a game than being labeled outdated.

 

[tindrli]

i didnt play Kingmaker yet

 

[fantadomat]

I see that a small bunch of people actually prefer PoE....

Also half of the people that chose KC still have some shame and decided to not back the loosing horse.

 

[Lady_Error]

I enjoyed Deadfire more, because that's the one I played.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

but RTwP when done right can aleviate many of the issues of turn based CRPGs while still allowing for all their benefits.

 

[Mexi]

PoE is wholly better at the moment. Only an absolute retard would think otherwise, which this site is infested with.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

PoE is wholly better at the moment, only an absolute retard would think

fypnp

 

[Mexi]

PoE is wholly better at the moment, only an absolute retard would think

fypnp

Thank god I'm not you. With all the idiots on this board, Something Awful really needs to do a precise destruction of this place like they did the BioWare and NMA boards. Might be too easy, though.

 

[luj1]

Kingmaker at least has a sensible ruleset and isn't compromised by accessibility as a core philosophy.