KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[PEACH]

Phoenix Point is a Sci-Fi game with some horror elements and Lovecraftian inspiration. The sort of John Carpenter/Clive Barker-esq bodily horror, flayed flesh concepts no longer fit the game's story.

 

[HansDampf]

After speaking with Julian: The main reason for the artwork shift is that as the story became more complete and fleshed out, the less the concept artists' original designs fit in with the narrative. Phoenix Point is a Sci-Fi game with some horror elements and Lovecraftian inspiration. The sort of John Carpenter/Clive Barker-esq bodily horror, flayed flesh concepts no longer fit the game's story. With that said, we still haven't yet shown everything in the game (and of course, we don't intend to), but I have personally seen some assets that are still quite gruesome and closer to the original concept art.

Combined with the many previous Deep Lore updates (which I never bothered to read) it seems to me that, for a TB tactics game, PP is putting way too much focus on story. Putting it bluntly, who cares about all this crap? Sure, there has to be a basic plot to have meaningful interaction with the factions. But why should it dictate art and enemy design at all? If the original idea was to fight a bunch of cool John Carpenter's Cthulhu monsters in TB tactics, you can make up anything to make it fit. Nobody cares if it's a little wacky.

Also:

We still aim for June 2019.

Fabulously Optimistic

 

[luinthoron]

So lets compare the new geoscape with the old (shown on Fig):

new geoscape

old geoscape

Why would you even use the Fig geoscape for comparison when it hasn't been current since the superior version shown more than a year ago?

 

[PanteraNera]

The main reason for the artwork shift is that as the story became more complete and fleshed out, the less the concept artists' original designs fit in with the narrative.

Uhm, I kinda feel silly for pointing this out, but ... you know you could also have gone the other way, fit the narrative to the original vision, that was visualized, to uhm ... get this project crowdfunded.

Phoenix Point is a Sci-Fi game with some horror elements and Lovecraftian inspiration.

The sort of John Carpenter/Clive Barker-esq bodily horror, flayed flesh concepts no longer fit the game's story.

You should update Fig than, it still reads:

Phoenix Point Is The Fusion of XCOM And Fallout We All Want

- Fallout

The Phoenix Point Geoscape, is one of the best things I’ve ever seen. I make no apologies for being an absolute nerd. Just look at it – weird temples devoted to cosmic horror, UI elements that look clear and useful, and a bloody great Behemoth.

- weird temples devoted to cosmic horror

Phoenix Point is the new strategy game from the creator of the original X-COM series. It features turn based tactics and world based strategy in a fight against a terrifying, alien menace.

- terrifying

Also some quotes from interviews with Julian Gollop that were linked in Fig updates while the campaign was running:

a sci-fi horror strategy game

With Phoenix Point, I think there will be less of a divide in that sense. We’ve already done a survey, asking people what is important to them and it matches up with our own feelings very well

I’m also pleased that he happily accepts my definition of Phoenix Point as a horror game.

Oh, it absolutely is a sci-fi horror game. You can see the John Carpenter influence and The Mist is there as well as the cosmic horror elements.

source

the strongest and most exciting ideas in Phoenix Point might well be in the strategic layer, which combines elements of grand strategy with the lurking horror of Stephen King’s The Mist

Phoenix Point may be humanity’s last hope. An isolated settlement of survivors in a world that has gone to hell, it’s a peak rising above a tide of horrors that are threatening to consume what remains of humankind. Your task is to lead the ragtag band of people who have made Phoenix Point their home, at first ensuring that they survive by gathering food and other resources, and later by fighting back against the threats that surround them.

That virus is capable of mutating any species it comes into contact with, which leads to an initial wave of horrific aquatic creatures, reminiscent of Terror From The Deep, and eventually makes its way onto land.

It’s more reminiscent of Dagon’s attack in Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth than anything I’d expect from X-COM and the Lovecraft quote that opens the presentation makes a lot more sense in the context of these gargantuan horrors. This is a game about biological horror but the virus is cosmic in origin and, I suspect, some of the late game developments will focus on that element.

source

Phoenix Point is a post-apocalyptic game

“Horrible mutations were going around,” Gollop said, “People were getting changed, while others just walked into the sea. The Pandoravirus’ genes had taken them over.”

source

not to mention the badly inadequate communication from developer.

How do you feel we could improve this?

Well you stating out of the blue that quote "Phoenix Point is a Sci-Fi game with some horror elements and Lovecraftian inspiration." is an absolut prime case for showing what "badly inadequate communication" is.

You know very well that on discord every now and than some people asked about the lack of body-horror in the redesigned aliens. I am sure you said something like "textures" will most likely change that. You were honest, but misinformed, as was the whole fan-base. People didn't knew that Snapshot is going to drop the body-horror / John Carpenter-styled aliens. They never asked if people want that, or said that they changed their mind. They just did what they wanted to do. After the art-shift, after the change has been done, after people like Shog-goth kept asking we get this statement. Haven't you said in this thread that you as the "community manager" want to give the players a voice? To have an ongoing communication between them and Snapshot? How can you do so, if you are misinformed and changes are not communicated?

I don't blame you at all, I can say from the personal conversations I had with you in the past that you seem to be a very honest and thrust worthy person. You are just the messenger, that brings the bad news.

I do believe that Snapshot wants to get as many players as they can, but you can't say that players/backers have a saying in what PP becomes. If they did, the changes (see my previous post) would have been communicated before work has left the concept phase. Feedback would have been gathered and analyzed. Instead changes are just being made.

 

[PanteraNera]

So lets compare the new geoscape with the old (shown on Fig):

new geoscape

old geoscape

Why would you even use the Fig geoscape for comparison when it hasn't been current since the superior version shown more than a year ago?

Because it was the original vision.
The dev-blog globe is very similar to the Fig geoscape.
The Fig globe showed in one image (gif) what was shown in many images on the dev-blog you linked. Easier to read, you know?
Also I am not sure if you actually read what I wrote.

 

[Grotesque]

by the creator of the original X-Com"

And spider-man is written this way instead of spiderman.

terrifying

any menace is terrifying!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

any menace is terrifying!

What, even Dennis the Menace?

 

[Grotesque]

Now I wonder who the fuck is gonna playtest PP.

 

[Shog-goth]

New update: https://phoenixpoint.info/blog/2018/10/2/behind-the-scenes-on-phoenix-point

I quote myself:

Latest development updates: a bunch of people, some artworks, more artworks.

This time? A bunch of people, working on artworks.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

A bunch of people

Yes, they're the developers. The game won't get made without them.

working on artworks.

....and models, and animations, and scripting, and UI elements, and mechanics, and code - all the stuff that makes the game.

 

[Shog-goth]

Yes, they're the developers. The game won't get made without them.

So I've always to see them, in every update, instead of the game?

....and models, and animations, and scripting, and UI elements, and mechanics, and code - all the stuff that makes the game.

It's just a façade, a set up. I see no game on monitors. Nice logo on the glass doors, btw.

 

[Jimmious]

Developers very rarely get to play the whole game while developing. So you won't see a game on the monitors, you will see what they're working on.

 

[Shog-goth]

Developers very rarely get to play the whole game while developing. So you won't see a game on the monitors, you will see what they're working on.

Of course, but this whole thing's been staged. On the screens there is nothing but the usual.

Just to be clear: I want real news about the game, not just some artworks or insights about the people who is making it, every time.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Of course, but this whole thing's been staged. On the screens there is nothing but the usual.

Nothing has been staged at all. I was literally walking around the studio taking photos over people's shoulders of what they were working on, and then taking notes. You're getting real news about the game. This is what development is.

 

[Mustawd]

Thanks for the regular updates UnstableVoltage.

While the changes made to this game has kind of killed my hype for it a bit, I’m still looking forward to seeing what the end reault will be.

However, I do have to echo what PanteraNera said about changing the game to fit the story. That sounds absolutely crazy to me.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

However, I do have to echo what PanteraNera said about changing the game to fit the story. That sounds absolutely crazy to me.

I can understand that. Though, we haven't changed the entire game to fit the story. We've changed the look of a couple of the factions because it made more sense that way. The Mad Max look better fits the independent havens than New Jericho and the Phoenix Project. While there are some people who became attached to those very early concepts from the Fig (and I can also understand that some people didn't like the fact that it shifted after the campaign), it is the nature of any creative project when it's crowdfunded so early on in the design process - things are always likely to change.

That said, the game mechanics changed (more like UFO and less like XCOM) and many of the same people didn't mind those changes. We accept that there are going to be people who don't like X or Y about Phoenix Point, but there really isn't a solution to that.

 

[Latelistener]

That said, the game mechanics changed (more like UFO and less like XCOM) and many of the same people didn't mind those changes.

That's because if there is a perfect game, UFO is really close to that, probably closest than anything I've played. What I mean is, there is not a single gameplay mechanic that felt bland or inappropriate. Despite what you may think, I actually played it a few years ago for the first time using OpenXcom and was amazed how well it was done. So in a sense, the closer you are to the original game - the better your game will be and below is a good example of that.

It was both funny and sad to read about Jake Solomon's epiphany where he said that pre-made maps in XCOM was a bad decision and they'll use procedurally generated ones in XCOM 2. Like, you had to go your own way, admit that it was wrong and then came back to the original concept made 20 years ago. Perhaps sometimes you shouldn't be dismissive about a classic that created a whole series.

 

[Shog-goth]

You're getting real news about the game. This is what development is.

In updates we're getting, almost always, news about people who is working on it and how they're making it. I'd like to have informations about the game itself, not what revolve around it. It's simple.

We've changed the look of a couple of the factions

So 50%. For now.

While there are some people who became attached to those very early concepts from the Fig (and I can also understand that some people didn't like the fact that it shifted after the campaign), it is the nature of any creative project when it's crowdfunded so early on in the design process - things are always likely to change.

Details may change, vision shouldn't. Even more in a crowdfunded project.

That said, the game mechanics changed (more like UFO and less like XCOM) and many of the same people didn't mind those changes.

There is no way I can be sure if these mechanics aren't going to change again, as nothing is finalized and everything is always temporary.

We accept that there are going to be people who don't like X or Y about Phoenix Point, but there really isn't a solution to that.

I don't like the arbitrary and radical departures from initial premises, on the basis of which Snapshot asked for our financial support.

 

[ArchAngel]

However, I do have to echo what PanteraNera said about changing the game to fit the story. That sounds absolutely crazy to me.

I can understand that. Though, we haven't changed the entire game to fit the story. We've changed the look of a couple of the factions because it made more sense that way. The Mad Max look better fits the independent havens than New Jericho and the Phoenix Project. While there are some people who became attached to those very early concepts from the Fig (and I can also understand that some people didn't like the fact that it shifted after the campaign), it is the nature of any creative project when it's crowdfunded so early on in the design process - things are always likely to change.

That said, the game mechanics changed (more like UFO and less like XCOM) and many of the same people didn't mind those changes. We accept that there are going to be people who don't like X or Y about Phoenix Point, but there really isn't a solution to that.

Ok, I can understand some change in art and all that but please can you forward to developers that at least they could make new armor look like it is usable instead of ridiculous fantasy armor . Why does it have shoulder protections like they are playing American Football?!

 

[Grotesque]

However, I do have to echo what PanteraNera said about changing the game to fit the story. That sounds absolutely crazy to me.

I can understand that. Though, we haven't changed the entire game to fit the story. We've changed the look of a couple of the factions because it made more sense that way. The Mad Max look better fits the independent havens than New Jericho and the Phoenix Project. While there are some people who became attached to those very early concepts from the Fig (and I can also understand that some people didn't like the fact that it shifted after the campaign), it is the nature of any creative project when it's crowdfunded so early on in the design process - things are always likely to change.

That said, the game mechanics changed (more like UFO and less like XCOM) and many of the same people didn't mind those changes. We accept that there are going to be people who don't like X or Y about Phoenix Point, but there really isn't a solution to that.

Ok, I can understand some change in art and all that but please can you forward to developers that at least they could make new armor look like it is usable instead of ridiculous fantasy armor . Why does it have shoulder protections like they are playing American Football?!

At this point, say "Thank you!" for not having this in the game.

Spoiler

But maybe someone will write a short story and BHAM!

 

[orcinator]

At this point, say "Thank you!" for not having this in the game.

Phoenix Point would benefit from being more like X-Piratez

 

[Volrath]

Phoenix Point is a Sci-Fi game with some horror elements and Lovecraftian inspiration. The sort of John Carpenter/Clive Barker-esq bodily horror, flayed flesh concepts no longer fit the game's story.

Yep.

Fuck this game.

 

[Achilles]

I'm still excited, I have full confidence that Julian is going to deliver. I don't care at all about the art changes. I would caution the developers about the heavy focus on story though. Don't fill the game with cutscenes, scripted missions and dialogue. Follow the classic X-Com template. Less is more. Let players create their own stories.

 

[Alienman]

Too late for that. I have a feeling it's gonna be heavily narrative driven like Xcom 2.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

We still know next to nothing about campaign mechanics, but their focus on world building with those briefings may indicate scripted focus on narrative.