Combat focused CRPGs to play as a newfag to the genre

[Serus]

Every once in a while an "expert" will ejaculate the same "truths", but they never say which other RPG rulesets have produced better CRPGs.
Which other ruleset has produced CRPGs as good or better than the Gold Box games, the IE games, and Temple of Elemental Evil?

There are very few pnp rulesets that have been made into computer games though so I don't see what's your point even is? Among the few that have been done other than DnD, Realms of Arkania games are supposedly quite good. But in general comparing pnp-rulesets-made-into-crpg is pointless because DnD is the only ruleset that has been ported in any significant amount.

 

[octavius]

But why have no other rule sets been made into CRPGs? According to the experts these nameless rule sets are superior for cRPGs. Imagine what games we could have had, when they would be superior to the Gold Box games, IE games and ToEE.

 

[Darth Canoli]

But why have no other rule sets been made into CRPGs? According to the experts these nameless rule sets are superior for cRPGs. Imagine what games we could have had, when they would be superior to the Gold Box games, IE games and ToEE.

But they have, the dark eye, for one, even if the latest additions didn't have much success.

 

[Max Damage]

For something that works out of the box, try Knights of the Chalice, Wizardry series (may want to skip 4), Might and Magic 2, Pool of Radiance, Darkest Dungeon. If you don't mind modding, Temple of Elemental Evil wtih Co8 or Temple+ patch is good as well.

 

[Serus]

But why have no other rule sets been made into CRPGs? According to the experts these nameless rule sets are superior for cRPGs. Imagine what games we could have had, when they would be superior to the Gold Box games, IE games and ToEE.

Because DnD is (or at least was) so much more popular than any other combat focused pnp system. And because sticking the DnD logo on the box of your game was worth tons of sales in the past. Perhaps still would be if such games were made. Most pnp systems have little to no value from marketing perspective (but you still usually need to pay to use them). And the ones that have such value (like for example Vampire/WoD) are not focused on tactical combat.
So why bother using those other pnp systems if you can make your own system that is tailored for a computer game from the start and you don't have to pay for it? I'm not saying it's smart but, I would imagine, it's the thought process of most developers.
What do YOU think the reason is?

 

[aweigh]

When devs try to go outside dnd/dnd-adjacent systems, we get PoE...

 

[Serus]

When devs try to go outside dnd/dnd-adjacent systems, we get PoE...

We also get Jagged Alliance 2. Rarely.

 

[octavius]

What do YOU think the reason is?

Partly that AD&D is (or was) a strong brand name.

But why superior systems which would make better CRPGs according to the experts, were not made into CRPGs, when witnessing how very successful AD&D was, both commercially and quality wise, that I must admit I don't understand.
Either those systems are not so superior for CRPG conversion after all, or else their owners and potential publishers have no business sense.

 

[Serus]

What do YOU think the reason is?

Partly that AD&D is (or was) a strong brand name.

But why superior systems which would make better CRPGs according to the experts, were not made into CRPGs, when witnessing how very successful AD&D was, both commercially and quality wise, that I must admit I don't understand.
Either those systems are not so superior for CRPG conversion after all, or else their owners and potential publishers have no business sense.

... or all those systems are very niche and have zero appeal to potential developers because of non-existing marketing value. Consider this: there are thousands of pnp rpg systems out there but 99,9% of them will never, ever have even a chance for a computer version. Why is it so difficult to accept the possibility that the good ones (from mechanical perspective) are among the 99.9%? I mean, even statistically it's the more likely possibility.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Either those systems are not so superior for CRPG conversion after all, or else their owners and potential publishers have no business sense.

Well, Fallout was supposed to use GURPS, but Steve Jackson Games declined. That's one major piece of evidence to support the "no business sense" theory. And let's not forget that the first official AD&D video game, Pool of Radiance, was a smash hit. If the brand had made its video game debut with some mediocrity, it's no guarantee that that experiment wouldn't have died right there and then, and we wouldn't even have more than the one AD&D-based game (not accounting for kinda-sorta-AD&D like Wizardry).

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

So far I'm gravitating towards BG1, ToEE, JA2 and IWD, I think I'm just gonna pop my cherry with BG1 and be done with it, then I'll see how to go forward from that. Feel free to debate over my choice if you have other ideas.
Last thing last, as I've mentioned I have really no idea how DnD combat works and most terminology associated with it. Is pulling out a manual or guide for the DnD version the game is based enough of a required reading or whould you suggest something else?

You can google the game's manual if you feel out of your depth--it explains how everything works--but it's not that complicated and the game does a decent job of teaching you. If you dive right in you'll be fine. Don't feel bad if you end up starting over repeatedly to create a more optimized character as you learn more about how the system works. That's half the fun.

There's just one thing that's a little counterintuitive: negative numbers.

Spoiler

In the version of D&D that Baldur's Gate is based on, lower numbers are sometimes better than higher numbers. You want your armor class (AC) lower, you want your saving throws (resistances to magic and status effects) lower, and you want your THAC0 (your chance to hit modifier) lower. For example, leather armor gives you an AC of 8, a suit of full plate is 1.

Let's say you want to attack an enemy. The game rolls a 20-sided die. THAC0 stands for "to hit armor class zero," meaning it's the minimum number you need to roll in order to land a hit on an enemy with an AC of zero (this is a very well armored enemy). So if your THAC0 is 11, you need to roll an 11 or higher to hit someone with 0 AC (a 50% chance to hit). If your THAC0 was 9, you'd have a 60% chance. A character with average stats starts with an AC of 10 and a THAC0 of 20.

THAC0 - Enemy AC = the minimum number you need to roll to land a hit

Here's where it can be confusing: when you find enchanted items that give you a +1 or +2 bonus to your AC or your THAC0, the bonus actually lowers those scores, because lower is better. So a longsword +1 should really be a longsword -1.

Other than that, be prepared to die often at the beginning, especially if you play as a mage. If you're worried about picking up the rules, go with a martial class like fighter, paladin, barbarian or ranger--they're much more straightforward. You'll gradually pick up how the other classes work as you get companions.

 

[Beastro]

Sega Genesis port of Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday is a good, simplified introduction to the Gold Box games.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I'm looking for a CRPG that is:
- party based
- with DnD rulesets rather than proprietary systems like PoE in order to build a base knowledge that will carry me over more games
- either turn-based or RTwP, leaning towards the first

So far I'm gravitating towards BG1, ToEE, JA2 and IWD, I think I'm just gonna pop my cherry with BG1 and be done with it, then I'll see how to go forward from that. Feel free to debate over my choice if you have other ideas.
Last thing last, as I've mentioned I have really no idea how DnD combat works and most terminology associated with it. Is pulling out a manual or guide for the DnD version the game is based enough of a required reading or whould you suggest something else?

BG1 and IWD are RTwP games.

Looks like you're really into Infinity Engine look alike games.
If you like games to offer you almost impossible to beat optional enemies every now and then, don't instal the Co8 mod with ToEE (Circle of Eight) but you should use the temple + mod (wiith or without Co8)

If you like ToEE, you should play knight of the chalice (KotC)
And if you like KotC you should play Hearkenworld (free, made by a fellow codexer Dorateen )

Important info about ToEE : the main village quests sucks, the only interesting part happens in dungeons aside from a few easy quest (church, tavern and in the tower )

No need to read D&D rulebooks, they're for D&D tabletop and mostly for Game Masters, most player only read the characters creation part and even only the parts they need for their character creation.
Besides, there is an in-game help for feats (in ToEE, H + click a feat, in KotC, they're clickable for more information )

At some point, you should play Wizardry 8, in a perfect parallel dimension, video game wise, Wizardry 8 is a series on it's own, with 30 expansion and enhancements of the main game, Wizardry 8-1, Wiozardry8-2, and so on.
In our hard cruel world, it's only one game.

Forget what i just said, you play Wizardry 8 and you're screwed, no other game will ever be good enough afterward.

 

[Jacob]

Combat focused CRPGs to play

I can recommend Planescape: Torment

Why is this happening?

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Why is this happening?

Wait he said combat rpg? Never mind, it's late night in my country and my brain malfunctioned.
Sorry, I half a sleep right now and missed half requirements. So I deleted my post because it was not helping at all. cloudropis If you seen my suggestion, don't mind it. i just misunderstood what you want.

 

[Sigourn]

Every time Lilura posts something "try hard"-y.

The funny thing is that you are a non-entity, a Nothing, a shitposter lost in the shuffle of a thread that will soon be buried with the rest, whereas my write-ups on BG, ToEE and Jagged Alliance 2 are the best of their kind, and continue to be read by thousands daily.

"And as for you, I don't know you, but I'm sure you're a jerk!"

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

OP,

try underrail before going for wizardry 7 or JA 2 or some grognard max game.

Underrail is p. fun, very good gameplay CnC based on your builds and is very easy to grasp the system (just read all the tooltips, read descriptions of unavailable feats at character creation, start on normal, maybe restart once you get the grasp of the system etc.)

Underrail hasmore complex gameplay systems than Fallout, but is still easy enough not to overwhelm a complete newfah to crpgs.

 

[cloudropis]

Underrail is single character a la Fallout though, so it doesn't fit. It's in my backlog along with tons of other suggestions from this thread though.
Thanks for the help so far lads, started BG1 and haven't had problems so far. Rolled an Elf Archer. I read both manuals you get with the EE (sorry Lilura) and I think I got everything so far. As Kyl Von Kull assumed negative numbers caught me by surprise at first, but I quickly realized it makes sense considering the hit formula is a subtraction and negative numbers would add up making my THAC0 higher, and I assumed +x weapons are intended as -x for damage formula purposes.
Having a bit of trouble figuring the flow of battle, or rather if there's a way to direct enemy aggro towards my frontliner/tank. So far enemy compositions can break through and calmly walk towards my backline even though I heard DnD/CRPGa have rules in place to penalize just walking away from a tank towards the frontline (I read PoE had it and was actually overbearing with it), so I haven't really figured out how to control space properly during battles. No problems with the game so far, enemies are shitters but I'm gonna try killing the ogre for the Friendly Arm Inn quest and see how it goes. Playing on Core Rules btw,

 

[DraQ]

DND also birthed Wizardry as well, can't forget about that.

DND birthed a whole lot of things by the virtue of effectively being the seminal system.
It deserves credit for that, but that doesn't mean it's any good, merely of historical interest.

 

[DraQ]

At some point, you should play Wizardry 8, in a perfect parallel dimension, video game wise, Wizardry 8 is a series on it's own, with 30 expansion and enhancements of the main game, Wizardry 8-1, Wiozardry8-2, and so on.
In our hard cruel world, it's only one game.

Forget what i just said, you play Wizardry 8 and you're screwed, no other game will ever be good enough afterward.

Brofisted for that.

I don't fully agree with the last part, but Wizardry 8 has some seriously good combat and is very fun overall. It's also a proof that you can have too much of a good thing, because you will grow to hate the combat and instinctively run away from the delicious XP due to sheer number of random encounters.

 

[cloudropis]

Sup again fellas
BG1 is p cool, should finish it soon. I think I'm on board on this CRPG thing.
My watchlist is probably gonna be BG1 to 2, then ToEE and IWD2 for the 3.5 exposure. Will throw JA2 and PS:T in the mix whenever I feel like it.
I also heard good things about NWN for its huge amount of modules, but apparently there's some retardation about the companion system? Also heard bad things about NWN2 except MotB. Considering my endgame is "Kingmaker looks fucking sick and I want to complete the highest amount of games before it stops being an unplayable bugfest" I'd say I'm not exactly running out of time.

 

[Lilura]

Also heard bad things about NWN2

Most of its issues can be overcome.