Company News Obsidian reportedly about to be acquired by Microsoft

[mondblut]

decent mass-market action RPGs

Does not compute.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/1341890/

Even on the Codex, most people have trash tastes and couldn't find their way out of the Wizardry 7 character generator without quest compass. Your point being?

 

[Vulpes]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/1341890/

Hold up. NeoFag still exists? I thought it closed down after the owner was exposed as a pedophile and most of the people users and moderators left

 

[Chris Avellone]

What does this mean for Tyranny?

Like Kyl Von Kull said, Paradox still owns the IP.

It's not they don't want to do nothing with it - Fred Wester said he'd be open to doing a Tyranny RTS (I can't recall the specific quote, but he was pretty positive about being willing to pursue it).

Considering the game's Black Company feel, an RTS would be appropriate, imo. I recommended some folks speak to him about it, but I'm not in the loop for it.

Once a company/publisher owns an IP, even if they don't have immediate plans to use it, they rarely are willing to sell it unless the offer's pretty amazing - they're more likely to lease the IP out to generate revenue for them.

 

[Grauken]

There already was a Black Company inspired RTS, the Myth ones, quite good as well

Not saying that they shouldn't do it, there's always room for more

 

[Chris Avellone]

There already was a Black Company inspired RTS, the Myth ones, quite good as well

Not saying that they shouldn't do it, there's always room for more

Yeah, that inspiration is why I think I played through Myth (good game, great atmosphere). And the sequel.

Also, they captured the feel of the books really well, imo - and the narrator was amazing.

 

[aratuk]

Well it ain't none of my nevermind, Chris Avellone, but I do hope someone on your behalf will convince Microsoft's M&A team that "de-ownering" isn't a real thing, and that even if you've transcended beyond such worldly things, they need to buy you off.

 

[Morality Games]

Fun fact, if this is true then the next Shadowrun game may very well come from Obsidian Entertainment.

 

[Wild Slop]

 

[Makabb]

Fable reboot incoming

 

[Lutte]

fable or shadowrun which is better and why

there's no brake on the ride to the special olympics

 

[Wunderbar]

fable is already in development at playground games.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I wouldn't trust obisidian with an action combat system, they would invariably fuck it up. It's ironic because a successful action adventure game would be the only thing that could save obsidian as a recognizable brand, as their isometric rpgs continue to erode any goodwill new Vegas had garnered them from the mass market.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It's not they don't want to do nothing with it - Fred Wester said he'd be open to doing a Tyranny RTS (I can't recall the specific quote, but he was pretty positive about being willing to pursue it).

Considering the game's Black Company feel, an RTS would be appropriate, imo. I recommended some folks speak to him about it, but I'm not in the loop for it.

Once a company/publisher owns an IP, even if they don't have immediate plans to use it, they rarely are willing to sell it unless the offer's pretty amazing - they're more likely to lease the IP out to generate revenue for them.

May have asked you this before during your May of full disclosure, but why the heck hasn't anybody just licensed The Black Company (or Dread Empire, or Darkwar or even Garrett P.I.) rights from Cook to make a game? I figure Cook's imprimatur would generate some meaningful buzz--the guy's beloved by tons of popular fantasy authors. That's gotta be worth something, although maybe not enough to offset the cost of the royalties (on the other hand, you probably save a bundle on worldbuilding).

Speaking of creating a new setting out of whole cloth, how much time do you end up saving when you work with an existing IP? I know that has its own drawbacks, but there must be tons of efficiencies, too, right? When Obsidian was making POE, x man-hours went into creating a world from the ground up, y man-hours went into designing the ruleset. Presumably, if the game had taken place in an established setting using the d&d OGL, that labor could've gone into improving anything and everything. Kingmaker is great and I wonder how much of that is because Owlcat didn't need to reinvent the wheel and could focus on making quality content.



***

For anyone interested in strategic Tyranny, here's the relevant article: https://www.pcgamesn.com/tyranny/tyranny-2-obsidian-paradox

“We could do more in that world [but] we haven’t really decided what to do with that IP,” Wester says. “We’ll see where we end up.”

“Just the other day on Twitter, somebody was talking about setting a grand strategy game in the Tyranny universe,” Jorjani notes. “I think that would be cool. We’re absolutely interested in exploring grand fantasy in the strategy space.

It’s especially intriguing that, without prompting, Wester mentions the same concept too: “If someone in the studio says, ‘I want to make a grand strategy game out of Tyranny’, I would approve that day one.”

So I hope someone at Paradox has proposed this, although a RTS would be a better fit.

 

[Misco Jones]

Shadowrun x Obsidian incoming.

 

[Tigranes]

I wouldn't trust obisidian with an action combat system, they would invariably fuck it up. It's ironic because a successful action adventure game would be the only thing that could save obsidian as a recognizable brand, as their isometric rpgs continue to erode any goodwill new Vegas had garnered them from the mass market.

Trying to do any kind of actionish gameplay has put Obsidian within an inch of bankruptcy time and time again. Some Codexers hate POE but the actual market of possible buyers will have a far worse perception of any Obsidian ARPG than an Obsidian old school RPG.

I'm not sure why Microsoft would waste their money on this - feels like the time for them to do a buyout was before AP/Aliens, not now - but hey, with Microsoft, that makes it all the more likely I guess.

 

[Chris Avellone]

May have asked you this before during your May of full disclosure, but why the heck hasn't anybody just licensed The Black Company (or Dread Empire, or Darkwar or even Garrett P.I.) rights from Cook to make a game? I figure Cook's imprimatur would generate some meaningful buzz--the guy's beloved by tons of popular fantasy authors. That's gotta be worth something, although maybe not enough to offset the cost of the royalties (on the other hand, you probably save a bundle on worldbuilding).

Speaking of creating a new setting out of whole cloth, how much time do you end up saving when you work with an existing IP? I know that has its own drawbacks, but there must be tons of efficiencies, too, right? When Obsidian was making POE, x man-hours went into creating a world from the ground up, y man-hours went into designing the ruleset. Presumably, if the game had taken place in an established setting using the d&d OGL, that labor could've gone into improving anything and everything. Kingmaker is great and I wonder how much of that is because Owlcat didn't need to reinvent the wheel and could focus on making quality content.

Black Company - I don't know. I only recall reading the pen-and-paper campaign setting version of it (?) and seeing it was filled with an amazing number of spelling and grammar errors.

Usually people license an IP to have the name draw more $$$ like you said, but I don't know if the Black Company had that weight. A Dread Empire game would be cool, though.

Black Company or no, Myth proved you could take the pillars of that world and do a version on your own, which kind of sucks for Cook, but there you go.

Working with an existing IP I don't think saves any time - it's just a different set of challenges that equal the same resource cost, and that assumes the license holder understands games and their feedback takes that into account.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

May have asked you this before during your May of full disclosure, but why the heck hasn't anybody just licensed The Black Company (or Dread Empire, or Darkwar or even Garrett P.I.) rights from Cook to make a game? I figure Cook's imprimatur would generate some meaningful buzz--the guy's beloved by tons of popular fantasy authors. That's gotta be worth something, although maybe not enough to offset the cost of the royalties (on the other hand, you probably save a bundle on worldbuilding).

Speaking of creating a new setting out of whole cloth, how much time do you end up saving when you work with an existing IP? I know that has its own drawbacks, but there must be tons of efficiencies, too, right? When Obsidian was making POE, x man-hours went into creating a world from the ground up, y man-hours went into designing the ruleset. Presumably, if the game had taken place in an established setting using the d&d OGL, that labor could've gone into improving anything and everything. Kingmaker is great and I wonder how much of that is because Owlcat didn't need to reinvent the wheel and could focus on making quality content.

Black Company - I don't know. I only recall reading the pen-and-paper campaign setting version of it (?) and seeing it was filled with an amazing number of spelling and grammar errors.

Usually people license an IP to have the name draw more $$$ like you said, but I don't know if the Black Company had that weight. A Dread Empire game would be cool, though.

Black Company or no, Myth proved you could take the pillars of that world and do a version on your own, which kind of sucks for Cook, but there you go.

Working with an existing IP I don't think saves any time - it's just a different set of challenges that equal the same resource cost, and that assumes the license holder understands games and their feedback takes that into account.

Did you read the books though.

 

[Neanderthal]

When Obsidian was making POE, x man-hours went into creating a world from the ground up.

I was always surprised by this, I thought that with all the pnp guys at Obs they'd have had half a dozen or more spare worlds lying around, I know i've got shit loads from rough drafts to mega detailed near encyclopedic treatise.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It's not like Black Company as a setting has some unique properties that would automatically transform into a thrilling video game. What made the saga special was the style and the tone, but that was in the 1980s and by now it was parroted and copied by numerous other authors.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Moving to be a cog in the assembly line, eh? No more indie RPGs from Obsidian, then. A blessing or a curse, no matter.

Yeah, but when have any of their indie RPGs been any good? I've been meh about Obsidian since Avellone left. And the fact that they haven't even tried to ramp up excitement about the Cain Boyarsky game has me thinking it's gonna be a name grab.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Did you read the books though.

Yes, all the Black Company ones (to Soldiers Live) and The Silver Spike, but I only read one of the Dread Empire books, Reap the East Wind (I would have read more, but the bookstores only had the 1 book in the series).

 

[Fairfax]

Working with an existing IP I don't think saves any time - it's just a different set of challenges that equal the same resource cost, and that assumes the license holder understands games and their feedback takes that into account.

Right, but he mentioned PnP licences, which also come with a ruleset. In the OGL's case, the ruleset has stood the test of time and is royalty free. And since so many people are familiar with it (and D&D in general), problems like this should be easier to avoid, no?

For example, late in PoE1, I noticed we weren’t getting any updates on the system design aspects for PoE1 in the design meeting reports being sent to production even though clearly new elements were being worked on.

When I noticed that, I specifically requested they be included in design reports and disseminated – especially after what happened with system design on FNV that caused problems: To explain one small example: “hey, we’re near the end of production and perks aren’t designed or in the game yet but no one really knows that or knows when they’re going and heyyyy I’m not a system designer or anything but maybe that may create balance issues?” Crazy, I know.

 

[Chris Avellone]

It's not like Black Company as a setting has some unique properties that would automatically transform into a thrilling video game. What made the saga special was the style and the tone, but that was in the 1980s and by now it was parroted and copied by numerous other authors.

I respect the hugeness of your Nick, but man, just lead with the 2nd sentence. That's what sold the Myth games to me, and I didn't even gravitate toward that genre until then.

Right, but he mentioned PnP licences, which also come with a ruleset. In the OGL's case, the ruleset has stood the test of time and is royalty free. And since so many people are familiar with it (and D&D in general), problems like this should be easier to avoid, no?

No, you're absolutely right. Even if the ruleset is established, even "moving" it over to Unity isn't an easy task.

And then having to make the decision about, "okay, what spells and specializations do we develop [because there are many, oh-so-many] that are realistically within our budget?"

I think one of the big problems of PoE, which also confines it, is trying to embrace the old D&D systems and give a ton of spell options to each class... which in my opinion, is like digging your own grave.

If making your own IP, keep the scope under control... PNP systems are low cost for franchise holders and those playing the game around the dinner table, but can mean a metric shitton of problems for systems designers on projects unequipped to handle the scope, especially if they have other issues to deal with... which most system designers do.

Also... this may be more relevant, but here's the rub: if designing one's own systems, I would never include so many spells as BG, so many specializations, disciplines, etc. unless I was 100% sure I could handle them - if not, I would keep it governed to the pragmatic space for, "here's what we can accomplish in the time provided."

But that's just my take, and I rarely have any authority over the system designer for any game by my own decision (systems govern moment-to-moment gameplay).

And yes, "mirroring" Baldur's Gate caused a lot of problems, but hey, that's what nostalgia will do to fuck with you.

Me, I'm pretty convinced players would have been okay without that if some other aspect of the game was solid and/or at 110% of what the audience had seen.

 

[Prime Junta]

I think one of the big problems of PoE, which also confines it, is trying to embrace the old D&D systems and give a ton of spell options to each class... which in my opinion, is like digging your own grave.

I disagree. In my view, the proliferation of classes is the bigger problem. Drop the chanter, cipher, and druid and put that effort into making the wizard and priest better. Ditto for barbarian, monk, and ranger / fighter and rogue. The same applies to pretty much anything related to scope in P1. Cut the stronghold, the other big city, and the megadungeon, and put that effort into the rest of the game instead. Having all those classes with just a handful of spells for each would have been much worse, even if that handful of spells had been better thought-out.

Simply put, you guys fucked up the Kickstarter big-time, coming up with all those incredibly labour-intensive stretch goals without thinking it through. A lot of what's wrong with P1 can be traced down to bad decisions in that campaign, specifically bad decisions that dramatically increased the scope of the game with relatively modest increases to time and budget.

 

[i.Razor]

Fun fact, if this is true then the next Shadowrun game may very well come from Obsidian Entertainment.

I think Microsoft will look how Cyberpunk 2077 will do.