KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Shog-goth]

Perhaps people should support modern creators.

Personally I also do this, but if Julian fucking Gollop - the greatest hero of my gaming youth - ask for help to create the "spiritual successor" of X-Com - the greatest experience of my gaming youth - I don't need anything else to open the wallet and give him all the money I can spare. I simply trusted him, sadly I was fabulously optimistic.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Yeah, fabulously optimistic sounds about right :/

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[PanteraNera]

There are Silent Storm and E5 / 7.62. The two latter are RTwP, but they are still very detailed tactical games.

Silent Storm - release date 2003
Brigade E5: New Jagged Union - release date 2006
7.62 High Calibre - release date 2008

E5 / 7.62 had a really nice RTwP system, also lots of weapon modifications. But it lacked polish, decent writing, destructible environment, interesting characters, replayability, strategic layer and other stuff to come even close to Jagged Alliance 2.
Silent Storm was nice as well, the destructible environment was great (especially for its time!) but lacked decent writing, interesting characters, replayability, strategic layer and other stuff to come even close to Jagged Alliance 2.
None of them comes even close to X-Com in regards of replayability and complexity.
While I do agree that this games were decent, they were released 10-15 years ago. Also they have neither surpassed Jagged Alliance 2 (1999) nor X-Com (1994).

 

[Stavrophore]

Who thinks that crab creatures are disguisting or scary/unsettling? The game aims at pegi 13?

 

[PanteraNera]

The game aims at pegi 13?

Pegi 18 no longer fits the game's story.

 

[Latelistener]

While I do agree that this games were decent, they were released 10-15 years ago.

Two of the key developers from Apeiron (E5 / 7.62) died because of some stupid accidents (2010-2011). Others decided that there's no point to continue without them. Still, there is a mod for 7.62 called Hard Life that came out on Steam a few years ago.
Jagged Alliance is now owned by THQ Nordic, so there is a tiny chance for a decent game, for the first time in all these years.

 

[Jarpie]

I really don't get it: as has been proved out many times, this kind of games are a no-go on consoles and casual/softcore gamers aren't interested in complex strategy/tactical titles like PP should be. Why Snapshot is cleary aiming at them, so? There isn't a single case in which a similar game has been successfull on console, while the opposite happened sometimes (looking at you, Valkyria Chronicles), but nonetheless they are wasting time and (limited) resources chasing a ghost, risking to follow this mesmerizing song of a rat-chatcher just down the cliff. How much money M$ could have given them, to justify all this crap?

Previously I called this turnabout a betrayal, but now it's clear that it'a also a gullible and delusional one.

They must think the simplistic FiraXCOMs did well on consoles when in reality they didn't.

You have to dumb down and streamline your games even further than Firaxis to get the console audience.

Simple well done market study would tell them this, hell, you just need to check the salenumbers for turn-based games on consoles. I think someone brought this up in some other topic, probably years ago, that it seems like the veteran devs got somekind of trauma about the consoles in the 90s and early 2000s when they started to take over the game market.

 

[Jarpie]

Perhaps people should support modern creators.

Personally I also do this, but if Julian fucking Gollop - the greatest hero of my gaming youth - ask for help to create the "spiritual successor" of X-Com - the greatest experience of my gaming youth - I don't need anything else to open the wallet and give him all the money I can spare. I simply trusted him, sadly I was fabulously optimistic.

Never have heroes and never put anyone on pedestal, creative people usually have about 10-15 years, maybe 20 if they're lucky when they make their great works. Very few people have ever surpassed that on any area of entertainment, for example when it comes to films, I can count directors who's had very consistent output on top with two hands.

 

[Latelistener]

Maybe they aren't expecting this to sell on Xbox, but they got pre-paid by MS well enough, better than what they got from Fig, and they're also expecting to make some buck from those PC gamers who don't mind consolization.
All in all, it isn't that bad, with the small detail that they blatantly lied about it being a PC-oriented X-Com successor, but then again, they already got money from those who wanted X-Com from Fig and now they're going for XCOM fans.

 

[ArchAngel]

To me it was clear from day 1 of FIG that this was going to be based on Xcom but with expanded features brought in from X-Com. I backed it on the hope that what was brought in from X-com would make this a much superior game than Xcom (and I still hope it will be).

At no point did Gollop say anything bad about Firaxis or Xcom and he only praised them and the game they made. You had to be extra thick to expect a full on X-com game from this.

 

[rezaf]

It's just hard to understand that no proper sequel, bringing all the longevity / replayability, the flexibility and the immersion was created in the 20-25 years since those games came out.
So people cling to the possible explanation that, maybe younger generations of designers just don't have it in them to create such games - but what if the original designers returned, those same people that designed the original, now idolized games?

Sadly, those people are now old, and no one should begrudge them for wanting to take the easier way. They grinded away years of their lives, sleeping in the office, hardly ever seeing their families or any other people besides their co-workers, thriving on fastfood and ramen, and they delivered those classic, unsurpassed games.
But now they are aging, married with kids, maybe even grandkids, and when they take a look at the long climb on a steep flight of stairs that would be required to bring forth another classic game, they take a sigh, park their behind on the stair lift and deliver yet another mediocre game, like all their young contemporaries do.

 

[Shog-goth]

Never have heroes and never put anyone on pedestal

Mine was obviously an exaggeration and a provocation, but it would still be easier if, in all this years, other games had been up to the standard of X-Com. Instead we're still here waiting for it to happen, and apparently Julian was our "last" hope to finally play a worthy "spiritual successor".

 

[Shog-goth]

To me it was clear from day 1 of FIG that this was going to be based on Xcom but with expanded features brought in from X-Com. I backed it on the hope that what was brought in from X-com would make this a much superior game than Xcom (and I still hope it will be).

Did you also know that it would become a console-centric game, instead of the promised PC-centric one? Would you have backed it anyway?

 

[ArchAngel]

To me it was clear from day 1 of FIG that this was going to be based on Xcom but with expanded features brought in from X-Com. I backed it on the hope that what was brought in from X-com would make this a much superior game than Xcom (and I still hope it will be).

Did you also know that it would become a console-centric game, instead of the promised PC-centric one? Would you have backed it anyway?

Considering Xcom UI and design was made for consoles from Day 1 I did expect PP to one day come to consoles. I didn't expect it to get there on release day :D

But if the pitch was the same with same promised features and same images and shit but only with added that it will be released on PC and console at same time, I still would have backed it.

If the pitch was fairly different (and more closer to nuXcom) because of simultaneous console release I would have to think twice before backing.

 

[Shog-goth]

If the pitch was fairly different (and more closer to nuXcom) because of simultaneous console release I would have to think twice before backing.

Which is exactly what happened: same UI optimized only for controller (despite the initial promises), "sanitized" art direction and atmosphere and pretty generic sci-fi factions/ememies. Nothing is like the original pitch.

 

[ArchAngel]

If the pitch was fairly different (and more closer to nuXcom) because of simultaneous console release I would have to think twice before backing.

Which is exactly what happened: same UI optimized only for controller (despite the initial promises), "sanitized" art direction and atmosphere and pretty generic sci-fi factions/ememies. Nothing is like the original pitch.

Except I care the least about UI or art direction. Mechanics of the game is what is important to me.

 

[Shog-goth]

Except I care the least about UI or art direction. Mechanics of the game is what is important to me.

Mechanics are heavily influenced by a controller optimized UI. Do you really believe that this general dumbing down will have no consequences on gameplay?

 

[ArchAngel]

Except I care the least about UI or art direction. Mechanics of the game is what is important to me.

Mechanics are heavily influenced by a controller optimized UI. Do you really believe that this general dumbing down will have no consequences on gameplay?

Yes and no. nuXcom has a controller based UI but it can easily be expanded to have more old school options like inventory, bigger squads, better shooting model and better AI. Most of these things do not need better UI.

I would still like a better UI but it is not a make or break feature for me. NuXcom UI is irritating but usable.

 

[Shog-goth]

it can easily be expanded to have more old school options like inventory, bigger squads, better shooting model and better AI. Most of these things do not need better UI.

Form follows function. A controller optimized UI means streamlined mechanics that prevented complex interactions: take a look at X-Com inventory interface vs. Phoenix Point one to see what I mean.

 

[ArchAngel]

it can easily be expanded to have more old school options like inventory, bigger squads, better shooting model and better AI. Most of these things do not need better UI.

Form follows function. A controller optimized UI means streamlined mechanics that prevented complex interactions: take a look at X-Com inventory interface vs. Phoenix Point one to see what I mean.

Would it be cool to have X-com like inventory with body slots and stuff? YES!

But I can live without it as long as there is some inventory. Maybe in some future that inspires someone to make X-com like inventory again.

I would love a cRPG with X-com like inventory more than I want a Xcom game to have it.

 

[Achilles]

It's just hard to understand that no proper sequel, bringing all the longevity / replayability, the flexibility and the immersion was created in the 20-25 years since those games came out.
So people cling to the possible explanation that, maybe younger generations of designers just don't have it in them to create such games - but what if the original designers returned, those same people that designed the original, now idolized games?

Sadly, those people are now old, and no one should begrudge them for wanting to take the easier way. They grinded away years of their lives, sleeping in the office, hardly ever seeing their families or any other people besides their co-workers, thriving on fastfood and ramen, and they delivered those classic, unsurpassed games.
But now they are aging, married with kids, maybe even grandkids, and when they take a look at the long climb on a steep flight of stairs that would be required to bring forth another classic game, they take a sigh, park their behind on the stair lift and deliver yet another mediocre game, like all their young contemporaries do.

I don't think it's that. I think it's more that the target audience has changed and it doesn't include only the über nerds like you and me but also more casual gamers who want to play something lighter. Gollop wants XCOM-like sales so that he can turn this thing into a successful franchise and he is designing the game around the XCOM template to attract the XCOM audience. I am excited for the game and I think that Gollop will make something great but I always expected XCOM+ instead of X-Com.

We all need to remember that the original X-Com was made at a time when Gollop went to the publisher, Microprose, with a game containing only the tactical layer and the publisher told him that the game was too simple, thus the addition of the strategic and management layer. Today developers and publishers are deathly afraid of alienating even the biggest morons and mouthbreathers. The original X-Com will never, ever be surpassed. I've made my peace with that.

So while I will never get my dream X-Com sequel, I will say that I am damn glad I have a choice of multiple quality X-Com-lite games to play. Just think of the poor souls who love Fallout.

 

[Infinitron]

"Perfect Apocalypse" - composed and performed by Simeon Dotkov - used in our recent trailer.

Many people have asked if we would release the music currently heard in our development builds and promotional materials by our in-house composer and sound designer, Simeon Dotkov. We are delighted to announce that Simeon's music will now be featured in the final release of Phoenix Point alongside the music of John Broomhall.

You can find more information about Phoenix Point on our official website https://www.phoenixpoint.info

Available for pre-order now with instant access to our development builds with the Luxury Digital Edition and above.

 

[Farewell into the night]

Nice music. It reminds me of the old days. I've got Worms: World Party, Thief: The Dark Project, Quake III Arena + Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver vibe from it.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

One sentence: interactive movies.

Edit: Think lens flare, level of detail (only one thing is sharp) and bloom. Oh, and The Chosen One, of course.