Obsidian and inXile acquired by Microsoft

[Vault Dweller]

Give me a reason why someone should play Deadfire? What did developers want people to say about the game? "Oh man, it's just like PoE but with a ship!"?

I quit POE in like 10 minutes and don't really know much about POE2, but even I know: (1) fairly novel "fantasy island chain" setting; (2) gameplay is less linear; (3) ship combat; and (4) much more "woke" for those who are looking for that in their game.

Maybe the game was way ahead of its time and the market isn't ready for woke games yet?

Anyway, yes, Obsidian did try to present the game as something different but ultimately failed. Why they failed and what they could have done differently is an interesting topic to explore. The fantasy island thing does seem interesting in theory but the execution wasn't very enticing.

^ conceptually this doesn't look any different than PoE.

An interview with Sawyer, Feb 2018:

Sawyer: In the first game, another thing thematically is that you’re kind of in a post-colonial area. It’s an area that’s already been colonized, there were already wars between the native culture and the colonizers, and most of that stuff has been resolved even though there are still some lingering issues. But in Deadfire, it’s an area that is actively being colonized despite there being a native culture there. Those themes and issues are more to the forefront. One of the reasons why we chose to have two colonizing factions is I felt that if it were simply a native culture and a colonizing culture, it would be very easy for that to fall into a trope or a lot of tropes that aren’t necessarily that interesting to explore, and some of the things that I think are very interesting about exploring colonialism in Earth is that often you will get colonial powers not only fighting each other, but also trying to play that native culture against their rivals. That’s the space that I thought was interesting to explore in Deadfire in terms of the secular conflict on the ground.​

How many people felt a strong urge to dive right in and explore the effects of colonization firsthand? 1 in 10? Less? Remember that question I asked earlier - why would anyone want to play Deadfire? Some folks thought I was being edgy or implied Deadfire was shit. I wasn't and didn't. It's a questions developers have to constantly ask themselves to make sure the answer is there. So Sawyer should have asked himself why people would want to explore these themes as eagerly as they want to explore dungeons and how big the potential audience is.

The ship combat was tacked on, the game wasn't built around it, obviously. It reminded me of The Curse of Monkey Island, which wasn't the right association. Overall, it was a good way to grab attention but not a strong selling point.

And then there were the reviews:

https://kotaku.com/pillars-of-eternity-ii-the-kotaku-review-1826397542

Pillars II has a lot going for it: a vast tropical setting, a story bold enough try unpacking issues like colonialism and oppression, party members who come across as refreshingly grounded and human...
...
However, as I passed the 50-hour mark and started to deliberately make real headway in the main quest, I realized that many of Pillars II’s high points were fairly short-lived. Some, like the exploding pirate harpsichord and spider-faced merchant quests, revealed layers: alternate routes on top of alternate routes and surprising, enigmatic characters. But other side stories, including many of the companion quests, ground to a halt just when things were getting good.

For example, there’s the story of Eder, a farmer-turned-fighter who was also a companion in the first Pillars of Eternity. In Pillars II, his personal quest involves searching for a woman he was involved with back in the day. Initially, he wants to make sure she’s OK, given that there’s a mountain-sized titan who slurps up souls as naturally as we breathe on the loose. Then he finds out that she had a son, and apparently begins to wonder if the child is his. He proceeds to go through an arc of being worried, then kind of excited about the prospect of being a father. It’s a decidedly un-epic way for an epic fantasy game to approach the idea of fatherhood, and it really took me by surprise. Then it turned out that the kid didn’t belong to Eder, and—to complicate matters further—that his mom had died. Worse, the kid decided to join a death cult whose members planned to sacrifice themselves to Eothas. I ended up having to chase down the boat Eder’s not-son was on, confront him before the cult leader convinced him to kill himself, and hear him tearfully explain that he was doing this because he felt that, by dying, his mom had abandoned him.
​

Once again we come to the Most Important Question: why would anyone enjoy this questline?

 

[Fenix]

It is generally accepted that most people who voice their opinions on something are complaining because generally being bothered by something is a bigger motivator to just go login somewhere and leave a review, than just liking a game.

Big hype train probbaly changed it. It was a New Age of incline, dream that came true right?
So many hastened to leave a review, a positive one because of all that hype and prises.
Anyway, how someone said already, it was 1% of those who reviewed the game.
That mean the other 99% were not so satisfied by the game - and the exactly what I saw frequently on rutraker - and there were people who bought the game, nto just pirated it.
They were disapointed enought to mentioned it but not enough to bother with review it seems.

Anyway, as I said, you have very good example before your eyes that scores and reviews ratings could be a veri controversial thing - compare PoE2 and PKingaker.
It mean that in many cases bad rating doesn't mean bad game, good ratings doesn't mean good game and in general IT JUST DOESN'T WORKS (at least without decipherment).

 

[Riddler]

Give me a reason why someone should play Deadfire? What did developers want people to say about the game? "Oh man, it's just like PoE but with a ship!"?

I quit POE in like 10 minutes and don't really know much about POE2, but even I know: (1) fairly novel "fantasy island chain" setting; (2) gameplay is less linear; (3) ship combat; and (4) much more "woke" for those who are looking for that in their game.

Maybe the game was way ahead of its time and the market isn't ready for woke games yet?

Anyway, yes, Obsidian did try to present the game as something different but ultimately failed. Why they failed and what they could have done differently are an interesting topic to explore. The fantasy island thing does seem interesting in theory but the execution wasn't very enticing.

^ conceptually this doesn't look any different than PoE.

An interview with Sawyer, Feb 2018:

Sawyer: In the first game, another thing thematically is that you’re kind of in a post-colonial area. It’s an area that’s already been colonized, there were already wars between the native culture and the colonizers, and most of that stuff has been resolved even though there are still some lingering issues. But in Deadfire, it’s an area that is actively being colonized despite there being a native culture there. Those themes and issues are more to the forefront. One of the reasons why we chose to have two colonizing factions is I felt that if it were simply a native culture and a colonizing culture, it would be very easy for that to fall into a trope or a lot of tropes that aren’t necessarily that interesting to explore, and some of the things that I think are very interesting about exploring colonialism in Earth is that often you will get colonial powers not only fighting each other, but also trying to play that native culture against their rivals. That’s the space that I thought was interesting to explore in Deadfire in terms of the secular conflict on the ground.​

How many people felt a strong urge to dive right in and explore the effects of colonization firsthand? 1 in 10? Less? Remember that question I asked earlier - why would anyone want to play Deadfire? Some folks thought I was being edgy or implied Deadfire was shit. I wasn't and didn't. It's a questions developers have to constantly ask themselves to make sure the answer is there. So Sawyer should have asked himself why people would want to explore these themes as eagerly as they want to explore dungeons and how big the potential audience is.

The ship combat was tacked on, the game wasn't built around it, obviously. It reminded me of The Curse of Monkey Island, which wasn't the right association. Overall, it was a good way to grab attention but not a strong selling point.

And then there were the reviews:

https://kotaku.com/pillars-of-eternity-ii-the-kotaku-review-1826397542

Pillars II has a lot going for it: a vast tropical setting, a story bold enough try unpacking issues like colonialism and oppression, party members who come across as refreshingly grounded and human...
...
However, as I passed the 50-hour mark and started to deliberately make real headway in the main quest, I realized that many of Pillars II’s high points were fairly short-lived. Some, like the exploding pirate harpsichord and spider-faced merchant quests, revealed layers: alternate routes on top of alternate routes and surprising, enigmatic characters. But other side stories, including many of the companion quests, ground to a halt just when things were getting good.

For example, there’s the story of Eder, a farmer-turned-fighter who was also a companion in the first Pillars of Eternity. In Pillars II, his personal quest involves searching for a woman he was involved with back in the day. Initially, he wants to make sure she’s OK, given that there’s a mountain-sized titan who slurps up souls as naturally as we breathe on the loose. Then he finds out that she had a son, and apparently begins to wonder if the child is his. He proceeds to go through an arc of being worried, then kind of excited about the prospect of being a father. It’s a decidedly un-epic way for an epic fantasy game to approach the idea of fatherhood, and it really took me by surprise. Then it turned out that the kid didn’t belong to Eder, and—to complicate matters further—that his mom had died. Worse, the kid decided to join a death cult whose members planned to sacrifice themselves to Eothas. I ended up having to chase down the boat Eder’s not-son was on, confront him before the cult leader convinced him to kill himself, and hear him tearfully explain that he was doing this because he felt that, by dying, his mom had abandoned him.
​

Once again we come to the Most Important Question: why would anyone enjoy this questline?

It looks a whole lot like the gaming equivalent of Oscar bait. Obviously it is going to garner a positive response from reviewers but that response will in turn have little to do with the actual revealed popularity of the product.

Same thing happens with plays, classical music and art all the time. Things get reviewed well for predictable reasons (being "bold" or tackling "important questions" etc.) but the actual audience response is very unrelated to the critical reception.

 

[AwesomeButton]

In a perfect world this MS deal will mean that:

1) Boyarsky&Cain can create and work on whatever they fucking wish to work on with very limited interference from the "Upper Management".
2) Badler will direct the next Pillars of Eternity, finishing the trilogy. With proper marketing the game will end up selling millions of units making Badler a wanted project director.
3) Parker will get to create his own Skyrim (in Pillars universe I presume) that actually ends up being better than anything Bethesda has ever created. Both Parker and Feargus can finally stop talking about creating Skyrimesque game of their own.
4) Josh will finally get to work on his tactical game. The game is perfectly balanced and grognards everywhere are satisfied.
5) Feargus, Parker etc. will retire after their contract obligations are done and someone capable of leading the company will takeover the reins and mistreatment of employees (according to Avellone) will cease.

Though I fear that this will happen:

1) Boyarsky&Cain leave to work on some F2P shit after finishing The Outer Worlds and the 2 year period that they've been asked to stay at the company (presuming they are obligated to stay for a while). They never create anything meaningful and Codex mourns their disappareance every year.
2) Pillars of Eternity 3 will not happen. Half of Codex rejoices, while the other half are looking for sharp objects to hurt themselves. Badler forms a company with a number of Obsidian refugees and they manage to create a very mediocre game that the Codex adores, but no one else plays it.
3) Parker will waste 70 million dollars on his Skyrim game that bombs completely. He will be fired on the spot when 1st reviews are released. Parker's wife finally divorces him and takes half of what he earned from selling the company.
4) Josh never gets to make his tactical game. Instead he will forced to lead Parker's game. He spends 3 very unhappy years working on the game and one day just vanishes with his antique bikes, never to be seen or heard again. Codex members around the globe think they saw someone who looked like Sawyer bicycling past them while humming German/Austrian march songs.
5) Feargus now has enough money for three beachouses. His kid, the one who likes bad pizza gets a job at Obsidian angering Avellone yet again about nepotism. Much like his father before him, the kid slowly progresses from Q&A to leading a studio of his own under Microsoft.
6) No one still knows what Chris Jones does.

Great, now who is willing to draw/collage the ending slides? :D

It's much easier to consider the possibility that PoE 2 failed because the design was weak.

Give me a reason why someone should play Deadfire? What did developers want people to say about the game? "Oh man, it's just like PoE but with a ship!"?

I've spent a good amount of time with Deadfire because I find the set piece combat encounters interesting, the setting/region of the setting interesting, even despite the horrible writing. But the parts of Deadfire which I like were never a major part of its marketing. No one marketed its combat and no one marketed its setting. More its story - "Chase a god, save your soul" (struck me as a weird tagline even at the time, if directed towards people in their 20s and 30s).

Unfortunately, shamelessly riding the IE legacy only works the first time. That's all that made PoE1 an anomaly. Or do you really think that at the very least the 700-900K people who bought Beamdog's 'remakes' of BG1 and BG2 wouldn't have bought Deadfire had PoE1 been a worthy heir to IE games (and BG2 specifically)?

I wouldn't bundle all these titles together. An argument might be made that most DO1 players didn't finish the game because the second half was objectively much worse. Or that, as I said above, PoE1 and XCOM rode hard the credit deriving from the old classics they claimed to be inspired to, and that works only if the game you release keeps its promises. Or that Banner Saga was overhyped as hell (mostly due to the gorgeous graphics and atmosphere). Or that Grimrock 1 projected the aura of a worthy heir to classic blobbers, and it came short, breaking the illusion in similar fashion to PoE1. Etc. etc.

I wrote this back in 2016:

I sincerely wish that when the time comes to market PoE 2, we will only hear it being announced as "the successor to PoE", without any allusions to these outdated, degenerative gameplay classics that players yet love so much, and which actually saved Obsidian from going under, as the PoE Making-of documentary claims. If name-dropping of games which PoE has supposedly surpassed continues, this will mean that Obsidian still has more confidence in the outdated and degenerate gameplay brands of 15 years ago, than in their own brand, modern and balanced as it is. I believe that when you show hubris, you better back it up with your own work's quality, otherwise you'll end up as laughing stock.

"I liked its combat but fuck I hate its writing", for example

I'm such a case.

Bioware had this telemetry business figured out in Dragon Age: Origins on day one, though the results of that data gave us Dragon Age II.

Dragon Age II did suffer from being rushed out the door, about 18 months after Origins' release.

Also he made me buy ELEX the fucker

The joke's on you. I never fell for this meme.

How many people felt a strong urge to dive right in and explore the effects of colonization firsthand? 1 in 10? Less? Remember that question I asked earlier - why would anyone want to play Deadfire?

Once again we come to the Most Important Question: why would anyone enjoy this questline?

Those are two examples of the phenomenon I described elsewhere - this is Josh sneaking into the game stuff which he personally likes, even if it contradicts, in tone and style, the expectations that are set for the game.

I appreciate the political dynamics of colonial conflict translated into the Pillars setting both as a concept and as execution, (though I admire much more the way in which political dynamics were woven into Fallout New Vegas' plot) but I realize that a) I'm a very small minority, and b) This setting is supposed to house a spiritual successor to an epic fantasy game. Dude, your style is cool, but it's not what the audience is asking for...

 

[Roguey]

Unreal was looking a lot better than Baldur's Gate in the graphics department.

I don't think so. 2D has no boundaries, limited only by imagination. 3D at the time was suffering from low polygonal models, barebone levels and other things mostly because video cards back then couldn't more.
Unreal was also a prestigious PC-exclusive flagship title that pushed forward 3D visuals. Most 3D games didn't look like that.

It's cheating to compare PST and BG2 screens to Unreal since they were released later and had a bump in graphics quality over BG which looked like this only in 640x480 https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/ste...e24804056ec7d5a12c.1920x1080.jpg?t=1532994508

Additionally, Atari was selling The Temple of Elemental Evil for $50 in 2003 when 3D graphics had definitely improved a lot since 1998. Even worse-than-Fallout looking Arcanum from 2001 went for $50.

Shave off a year, and that's Deadfire.

You'll not only have to "shave off" a year but also other things where the budget went in. I mentioned them in the previous post.

Team sizes were the same. They had different priorities.

Okay, how should re-phrase that? You put Deadfire on a shelf for $50 and you put RDR2 right there with it for $60. I hope I shouldn't explain the difference between those games.

Cyanide's last-gen-looking eight-hour Call of Cthulhu walking sim is right there alongside it for $60.

You can sell anything if the price is right. Most AAA games are struggling with sales today and they go cheap very quick. And then with a broad smile you put an isometric RPG for $50 among them. It won't sell. It has nothing to do with RPG market - the whole market is oversaturated. There are simply too many games.

D:OS 2 did just fine at $45. Going up an extra $5 isn't going to crater their sales.

 

[Brancaleone]

Anyway, yes, Obsidian did try to present the game as something different but ultimately failed. Why they failed and what they could have done differently is an interesting topic to explore. The fantasy island thing does seem interesting in theory but the execution wasn't very enticing.

I'll try to sum it up in a single sentence: they've shown that they have no clue about how the dynamics between what would come as familiar to player and what would come as unfamiliar work.

 

[Gambler]

I would be worried if this was just some strategy but what i said is as basic as math.
No diversity of content = no subscribers.
Netflix can't have only one type of movies because most of people out there watch a lot of different stuff.

Amazon killed off physical book stores. Moreover, some retards on the web already advocate for closing of public libraries in favor of Amazon/Kindle. Netflix killed off rental stores and is slowly killing movie theaters. This sounds good to some people, but they only think about their immediate convenience, rather than long-term consequences. In the long run this will lead to hyper-centralization of movie production. No one is going to pay for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube Red and Amazon Prime subscription at the same time. And as the time goes by there is less and less chance that someone completely new will be able to compete with the established subscription services. And they will be able to simply buy their competition in case it gets reasonably good.

Let's look at the inevitable consequences of games-as-a-service model:

1. DRM.
2. No game ownership of any kid.
3. Money to the developers is distributed by some formula that's controlled by the platform, not through percentage of actual sales.
4. Products do not directly compete with one another.
5. Inevitable hyper-centralization in the long run.

It's especially hard to predict how #4 will affect game quality, quantity and diversity. For example, right now indie games can compete with AAA titles by lowering their prices. This will not work under the subscription model. Also, newer games have to compete with much cheaper older games. This will stop being a real factor either. Most importantly: no immediate feedback. Right now, if your game sucks, no one buys it. With subscription model, the platform would be able to redistribute money any way their contracts allows them. Subscription a-la Netflix is the ultimate form of bundling, where every single thing on the catalog is bundled with every other thing. This gives the platform disproportionate leverage over consumers and content producers. Your only option as a consumer is to unsubscribe, and then you loose access to everything in the catalog.

This stuff is not like cable TV or old-school magazine subscriptions.

 

[Neanderthal]

Bioware had this telemetry business figured out in Dragon Age: Origins on day one, though the results of that data gave us Dragon Age II.

Dragon Age II did suffer from being rushed out the door, about 18 months after Origins' release.

So about same time as New Vegas and far more than IWD2? Damn Bioware are shit.

 

[Brancaleone]

Unfortunately, shamelessly riding the IE legacy only works the first time. That's all that made PoE1 an anomaly. Or do you really think that at the very least the 700-900K people who bought Beamdog's 'remakes' of BG1 and BG2 wouldn't have bought Deadfire had PoE1 been a worthy heir to IE games (and BG2 specifically)?

I wouldn't bundle all these titles together. An argument might be made that most DO1 players didn't finish the game because the second half was objectively much worse. Or that, as I said above, PoE1 and XCOM rode hard the credit deriving from the old classics they claimed to be inspired to, and that works only if the game you release keeps its promises. Or that Banner Saga was overhyped as hell (mostly due to the gorgeous graphics and atmosphere). Or that Grimrock 1 projected the aura of a worthy heir to classic blobbers, and it came short, breaking the illusion in similar fashion to PoE1. Etc. etc.

I wrote this back in 2016:

I sincerely wish that when the time comes to market PoE 2, we will only hear it being announced as "the successor to PoE", without any allusions to these outdated, degenerative gameplay classics that players yet love so much, and which actually saved Obsidian from going under, as the PoE Making-of documentary claims. If name-dropping of games which PoE has supposedly surpassed continues, this will mean that Obsidian still has more confidence in the outdated and degenerate gameplay brands of 15 years ago, than in their own brand, modern and balanced as it is. I believe that when you show hubris, you better back it up with your own work's quality, otherwise you'll end up as laughing stock.

Fine, but whether Obsidian had more confidence in IE gameplay or in PoE gameplay doesn't guarantee anything about the final product, since confidence in either model can be justified or misplaced.

 

[Roguey]

So about same time as New Vegas and far less than IWD2? Damn Bioware are shit.

Bioware feared stagnation, which resulted in their decision to completely overhaul the graphics and the systems within that short timeframe.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fallout 1 was a true 10/10 masterpiece. Such games don't come often. Fallout 2 was good ONLY because it was a sequel to a great game. Its design was subpar to Fallout in every way. PST was a gem but they had the engine with most systems and assets. IWD was nice but nowhere close to Fallout and PST in terns of design, writing, storytelling, or role-playing. The factors that let Interplay/BIS produce 4 such games no longer exist, so we can consider it an exception.

What keeps modern studios from reusing their engines and assets? Hasn't it already happened? Shadowrun: Dragonfall was made in less than a year thanks to the foundation built by Shadowrun Returns and ended up being a pleasant surprise.

Pleasant surprise it might have been but it suffered from the 'more of the same' curse all the same. Back when SteamSpy data was still available:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,7530.0.html

As you probably noticed a number of indie and not so indie sequels have done very poorly lately, selling a lot less than the original, according to SteamSpy:

• Legend of Grimrock: 1,037,095 vs 421,351
• Blackguards: 598,208 vs 248,752 (and that’s heavily discounted)
• The Banner Saga: 804,625 vs 328,163 (it would be interesting to see how well the third game does)
• Shadowrun: 1,161,596 vs 829,676 vs 587,436

Keep in mind that copies sold ! = revenue as ‘bundles’ can easily inflate the number of copies sold without boosting neither the revenues nor the number of active players. If we look at the players rather than owners, we’ll see a very different picture (% represents players vs owners)

• Legend of Grimrock: 616,936 (64%) vs 226,741 (57%)
• Blackguards: 261,263 (45%) vs 85,257 (32%)
• The Banner Saga: 601,244 (78%) vs 116,640 (39%)
• Shadowrun: 817,525 (74%) vs 434,653 (54%) vs 220,465 (38%)

It seems that success of the first game often fools developers into thinking that they can do even better or at least as good with a second 'bigger and better' game, but as you can see it's not always the case. The obvious conclusion is that unless you have a AAA blockbuster with massive sex appeal, don’t go for a sequel because it will be seen as more of the same and sell less.

Bonus content:

1. What's your take on sequels and expansions? Obviously, Pillars of Eternity 2 and three planned DLCs suggest you're a strong believer. At the same time, its new 'nautical-leaning setting' and ship combat offer something very different to entice players to come back and try something new. Is this the best way to go then?

Feargus: I’m a big believer in sequels, but I’m both a maker and player of RPGs. I think RPGs are great to sequelize due to their focus on story, characters, and growth. When I finish a RPG, I usually want to play with that character again, or play in that world again. Now, not everyone is like me, but I think there are quite a few of us. For all games, but particularly, for RPGs, we create these complex engines and design methods, and we can give players an even grander experience when we can use as much of that as possible from game to game. Of course, we can’t just make the same game again, and sequels need to be more than a big expansion pack. But, so much of our time goes into what players play (quests, areas, companions, dialogs), and when we create all of those again for a sequel with a different, or continuing, story - that’s a new game.

The challenge sequels are fighting with non-sequels is for attention. It is easier to get someone’s attention with things that feel new, so a sequel does need something new and interesting. This could be a big feature like the world map and ship combat in Pillars 2, but it could also be an incredible story; the core of which grabs your attention, and anyone else’s when they hear about it. I don’t know where the line is, but I think we all get a feeling for it. One of the things we did on Icewind Dale 2 at Black Isle Studios was to re-do the HUD. It looks and feels entirely different than all the other Infinity Engine games, and allowed us to also add in some tweaks, but it was not an entire re-write. One could argue that what we did was “skin” the UI, which isn’t really a benefit to players. I think it gave the game a fresh look, gave players more of the world to see, and created an easier way to interact with the characters and game controls at the same time. Either way IWD2 felt new and different because of it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Bioware had this telemetry business figured out in Dragon Age: Origins on day one, though the results of that data gave us Dragon Age II.

Dragon Age II did suffer from being rushed out the door, about 18 months after Origins' release.

So about same time as New Vegas and far more than IWD2? Damn Bioware are shit.

Vastly different requirements for both games I guess Also, Obsidian evidently had a number of ideas from Van Buren which they incorporated, so this saved some pre-production time.

Fine, but whether Obsidian had more confidence in IE gameplay or in PoE gameplay doesn't guarantee anything about the final product, since confidence in either model can be justified or misplaced.

Yeah. I quoted that as in I agree with you.

 

[Neanderthal]

So about same time as New Vegas and far less than IWD2? Damn Bioware are shit.

Bioware feared stagnation, which resulted in their decision to completely overhaul the graphics and the systems within that short timeframe.

But it looked shit and they removed loadsa stuff, ah well don't care.

 

[Fenix]

PoE was made for hardcore Infinite Engine fans. Those fans who frequent this forum. You realize that hardcore crpg fans who expected the crpg messiah would equal "mildly dissappointing" to "treason", right?

You DO realize that BG sold in over - dunno - a few millions copies? nd that NOT ALL who played it visit forums of any kind? Right?
Many of them barely playing at all, not teling about reviews - they are almost 40 like I'm.

PoE was meant to be the spiritual Baldur's Gate 3 we didn't get. It had a lot of hype behind it. You think hardcore fans wouldn't express their disdain after the crashing of their hopes and dreams?

I guess they expressed it on steam. The rest just didn't bother with that lie again, no matter the promises that were made.

And if anything, poe1 did a disservice to anyone who's going to release isometric RPGs.

Yeah, that's too. It's an example of how bad games can hurt entire RPG-sector of industry, alomg with how hype train ran over a game it hyped.

If you want an example of casual PoE reaction look at Angry Joe. Praised it and showered it with nostalgia love when it came out. And PoE2? A review? A mini review? Nada. Cuz nobody cares.

Seriously? That's somehting.

A sequel promises more of the same, and the same was never what we dreamed it would be.

I dreamed of more of the same in case of Fallout - what if in the end of the game you take submarine (with a video as good as about tanker), and just go on another continent for exactly more of the same.
That's why people played Fallout Nevada.

 

[Mustawd]

Didn't he announce his goodbye from the gaming industry at some point? Or at least from InXile?
There's so much developer drama going on, it starts to get blurry after a few months.

He announced his retirement 1-2 years ago (likely cuz he knew inXile was already in trouble). In the MS acquisition video he addressed it by saying he wasn’t gonna retire for a long time.

So that probably means he’ll retire in 3-5 years.

 

[Latelistener]

It's cheating to compare PST and BG2 screens to Unreal since they were released later and had a bump in graphics quality over BG which looked like this only in 640x480 https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/ste...e24804056ec7d5a12c.1920x1080.jpg?t=1532994508

Additionally, Atari was selling The Temple of Elemental Evil for $50 in 2003 when 3D graphics had definitely improved a lot since 1998. Even worse-than-Fallout looking Arcanum from 2001 went for $50.

Improved. By a lot. Yeah, right:

Spoiler

You also won't find anything like that in Fallout, so I would argue about art.

Team sizes were the same. They had different priorities.

But they have different production values. Maybe we should take a closer look at the Obsidian management Chris was talking about so much. I also think they pay less than Firaxis.

Cyanide's last-gen-looking eight-hour Call of Cthulhu walking sim is right there alongside it for $60.

It's actually $45 and had a -10% ($40) discount for several months until the release. And according to SteamSpy they sold 50-100k copies. Clearly it's still overpriced.

And now that you said it I would ask you to link proofs next time you mention prices. I had a feeling you were possibly bullshitting me, but let it slide.

D:OS 2 did just fine at $45. Going up an extra $5 isn't going to crater their sales.

1) Their own proprietary engine with modding support that took time and effort to develop
2) Online co-op
3) Fully 3D and looks quite good
4) $5 matter more than you think when it comes to pricing

 

[Quillon]

How many people felt a strong urge to dive right in and explore the effects of colonization firsthand? 1 in 10?

I agree with Eder questline part but for this, if devs were to choose themes that at least 7 out 10 people would particularly want to explore, then their selection of themes would be too narrow and probably nothing new. It isn't that important what themes they explore in the game, what's important is how they present that theme to us. Not everything has to be "marketable". CDPR didn't market W3 with "We'll tackle domestic issues in our game" but Bloody Baron ended up the most famous questline of the game. That said I don't think Obs did a good job presenting their chosen themes; there was too many themes in the game to do justice to any of it IMO. They tackled many new things, even brought with them what PoE1 had going for it then scratched the surface and called it a day.

This is what Josh said to all the designers on Deadfire:

Spoiler

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Can someone summarise the arguments why POE2 was a failure which have nothing to do with POE 1 not being mediocre? I would like to knock them down one by one.

Yes.

 

[Brancaleone]

So about same time as New Vegas and far less than IWD2? Damn Bioware are shit.

Bioware feared stagnation, which resulted in their decision to completely overhaul the graphics and the systems within that short timeframe.

Which only goes to show how clueless they've constantly have been about what works in IE games and what doesn't.
I mean, you've got very little time, and you set your priorities on a complete overhaul of the graphics of what is the best looking IE game (IWD) and systems that while outdated had proved to be hugely successful in BG2. Which doesn't mean that moving to 3.5E is in general a bad idea, but when you are strapped for time you should really think hard about it.

 

[TemplarGR]

I do not live in the US. The location listed under my post count is not a joke. I remember that leading up to the release of TESO: Morrowind (a relatively unpopular MMO), I couldn't walk around the city without seeing at least fifty buses carrying an enormous advertisement for it.


The original Witcher? Yes. By the time of TW2, the brand had time to grow, and I would say many "core" gamers were peripherally aware of it. In contrast, before the release of D:OS, I had met literally two people that had ever played a Larian game.


Youtube and Twitch are promoting Fortnite. Most sales for a game aren't produced after release, the casual consumer is caught up in the hype leading up to the release. Skyrim is a great example. It had a very effective trailer, and I distinctly remember people who had never even heard of The Elder Scrolls, let alone played previous games in the series, being incredibly excited for that game based on its very effective gameplay trailers. The Witcher 2 lended itself better to pre-release bullshots etc. than D:OS 2 did.





This is primarily due to the influx of Chinese consumers to platforms such as Steam. Don't kid yourself, the core PC gaming market that would purchase a game like D:OS2 has not expanded that much in the last seven years.



TW2 released over a year after Mass Effect 2, and over six months after New Vegas. It was released six months before Skyrim. TW2 arguably had a much better launch window, releasing in a period where nothing was being released, whereas D:OS2 was released leading up to the traditionally busy holiday season.


So did Crysis, and that game sold extraordinarily well. The rationale of "well it works on any machine" benefits enormous companies such as Blizzard, but being next-gen eye candy is actually an enormous selling point for a game. I would suggest that many players purchased TW2 because its visuals put the likes of New Vegas, Mass Effect 2 and even the not-yet-released Skyrim to shame.


I think it's you that actually fails to understand the core market, and what drives the purchasing decisions of many consumers.

Care to list the competitors of DOS2 release window? Please, list the games... Provide me with the huge array of single-player multi-million seller games that stole sales from DOS2... Perhaps Assassin Creed? But Assassin creed was releasing back then as well, and arguably it was bigger back then with better games...

Also, Larian was pretty well-known before the DOS games. They had released some games that got pretty good coverage on various gaming sites. Many people have played the original Divine Divinity. Divinity II was considered a borderline AAA game at that time. I think you should get out of your house and find more friends if you only knew 2 people who played a Larian game...

Plus you must be really into Fortnite for Youtube algorithm to only suggest Fortnite videos to you... I have seen plenty of DOS2 coverage on Youtube, it got tons of hype...

Crysis "sold extraordinarily well" because people got it for benchmarking their computers. People never actually played the damn thing. Multiplayer servers were completely empty a couple of months after release... Crysis was a tech demo, and to be fair, it run pretty well if you adjusted your settings. Plus it was a fucking AAA FPS from the largest game software company in the world, EA. What did you expect, to not sell? We aren't talking about Obsidian and CRPGs here, again, APPLES TO ORANGES.

You really seem to have an 83 IQ....

 

[Quillon]

"Wider audience" is discussing Avellone's tweet to Spencer: https://n4g.com/news/2217776/avello...would-be-open-to-working-with-the-studio-then

 

[Mustawd]

"Wider audience" is discussing Avellone's tweet to Spencer: https://n4g.com/news/2217776/avello...would-be-open-to-working-with-the-studio-then

That gave me cancer. I’m going back to bed to recover.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

"Wider audience" is discussing Avellone's tweet to Spencer: https://n4g.com/news/2217776/avello...would-be-open-to-working-with-the-studio-then

That gave me cancer. I’m going back to bed to recover.

A bit of recovery is a good idea. I'll be there in a minute.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Jesus christ you Linux parasites will never face reality. No one cares. As a gamer, yes Proton has made strides. But even then it's not 100% compatibility and a lot of games that are compatible still have issues. This is before you get into backwards compatibility with pre steam games. Windows is utter bullshit but it's still the primary platform for PC gaming. With support for any issue you can find. Unless Linux can find a way to get day one parity with windows game releases no one will want to know.

It's almost hilarious how so many PC gamers developed Stockholm syndrome for Windows and Microsoft.

Windows is shit. I want to ditch it but I need something genuinely better. Not just something for fart sniffers that will never achieve even parity with windows. Do you reckon the rich fortnite kiddies are asking for a Linux distro all wrapped up under the christmas tree?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

"Wider audience" is discussing Avellone's tweet to Spencer: https://n4g.com/news/2217776/avello...would-be-open-to-working-with-the-studio-then

That gave me cancer. I’m going back to bed to recover.

The who is Avellone comment killed me.