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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,823
Never played Shadow of Mordor and don't know what Nemesis system is, though there was already Nemesis league?
And I knew they rework Masters system, this grindfest every league was obnoxious like hell.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
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not even close
Actually they can fix it easily at least in stat sense.

- Half amount of monsters per map and packs shouldn't be bigger than 5-10 monsters (more stragglers less packs)
- Double or even triple monster HP (bosses HP is fine though)
- Reduce monster damage in half (leave bosses and rares out of this nerf)
- Buff damage by 50% single target melee skills and give ancestral call/splash 50% reduced damage
- Make bosses actually have way more % to drop something good than now

The whole other thing is melee combat need huge animation redesign.
Adding ragdolls also would be great.

I love how Wolcen(known earlier as umbra) basically 1ups everyone when it comes to melee combat and shows that GGG doesn't have anymore any excuse to not make combat actually feel good. Their previous excuse was that they are not big dev compared to Diablo and we accepted that but this was in 2012 not in fucking 2018.
Now Wolcen is done by amateurs with small team and combat looks like this:



At this point you're talking entirely different game.

And casters/ranged would STILL be better after your proposed changes:
1) ranged means no need to waste time to get close to target.
2) ranged means easier time targeting enemies.
3) ranged means never having to deal with enemy melee skills unless you're retarded and forced yourself into a situation where you can't kite.
4) ranged usually has easier time scaling high-end damage without sacrificing too much of other build aspects compared to melee. Even increasing (non-rare/unique) monster life 10x will not do much to deter the current ranged build meta while seriously crippling melee.
More time to kill mob = more time under attack from the mob, remember? Except that ranged builds will NOT be under attack due to not being in range (or easily avoiding ranged attacks).
5) 50% more single target solves nothing because aoe is king. You mentioned noting about multiproj skills (remember - EVERY proj skill is a multiproj skill because there are ways to make it so. All aoe has is crippled aoe scaling. Melee? Hahaha, melee has NOTHING).
6) buffing boss loot to anything remotely valuable will simply lead to new meta where community quickly discovers IF and WHEN bossing is valuable, then proceed to farm that.
Case in point - shaper strongholds, a fresh 3.4.0 addition.

Ragdolls will never happen. GGG has discussed it numerous times. WAY too much strain on the engine for basically zero benefit to the game.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
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The BEE TRAIL league announcement did not impress me.
The league mechanics themselves seem rather rote.
The whole "conspiracy web" aspect... I dunno. Depends on how they make it all work, but knowing GGG, I bet on "clunky and convoluted as fuck". Too little info arm, will see later.

On the master rework - I'll be a sceptic and gonna say IT'S GOING TO BE POPAMOLE SHIT THEY DUMBFUCKED IT.
The current master system is easy and predictable in getting what you need. 80% of master mods (lvl5 masters) is available within a week of solo casual (actual casual, not Reddit "casual" 40h/week) play. 90% of master functionality (lvl6 masters) is available after another week of relaxed casual play. Cut the time 2-4x depending on hard you can push content while doing wild master missions. Cut the time 5-8x if you're doing master rotas.
Lvl7 mods (mostly some elreon/cata mods, plus mod removal) takes a bit more time but it's easily achieved as well, and most of the time it's not utilised by most players anyway.
Lvl8 meta-crafting is utilised by less than 1% of the active playerbase due to most poeple being clueless about crafting, as such the time needed to grind to lvl8 is justified on that fact alone. then, considering how profitable meta-crafting is for those with wealth and knowledge required to utilise it, I'm gonna say that getting lvl8 masters is way too damn easy (in trade leagues where master prophecies are abundant).
The new master system so far sounds like they traded the consistent grind for RNG-based system (surprised?), where you have to chance upon specific type of master mission to get the desired unlock, or you don't and are fucked.
That being said, the master mission revamp itself is a welcome thing. The old ones get stale VERY fast.
 

Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
8,458
Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Dunno about you guys but this leagues stuff is my fetish. I really hope manipulation part is well done (after 3 weeks of patches...) Syndicate leaders are probably our forsaken masters.
Master and crafting rework is interesting. If we can choose like new Zana missions there won't be much problem but everything else will be another heavy rng fest as T.Reich mentioned.
Also Einhar is back <3
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,845
@arcane point of those changes is that with such changes AOE will no longer be a king.

1. Due to increased HP monsters will live longer and ranged chars will need to kite
2. The biggest problem of ranged is that they kill everything before it gets to them
3. Halving monster attack means melee would work and it would be completely survivable.
4. Increasing single target damage skills would ensure melee have its proper place as killers of harder monsters

But you have a point spell damage is very easily scaled. It rises almost log fashion. It should be quick front and slow growth back instead.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,553
Increased hp will not even slow down ranged characters clearing and halved monster damage means you don't even need to kite.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,975
Dunno about you guys but this leagues stuff is my fetish. I really hope manipulation part is well done (after 3 weeks of patches...) Syndicate leaders are probably our forsaken masters.
Master and crafting rework is interesting. If we can choose like new Zana missions there won't be much problem but everything else will be another heavy rng fest as T.Reich mentioned.
Also Einhar is back <3
My guess is that the boss is our "dear" assassin master Vorici, his missions were most hated, it would give pleasure to the masses to have him be the target of our killing rages :D
Also the lieutenants are not masters, in one of the videos you can see that your actions can move others into lieutenant position and that one down. Everyone is exchangeable expect the boss.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,975
Everyone is exchangeable expect the boss.

Yeah I was speaking about the bosses, though Elreon and Tora are hard to fit in such theme the others can easly betray us/anyone.
The one I timestamped is probably Catarina's final form.


Watch ZiggyD video on the game, you can see he has one of the "bosses" (I called them Lieutenants because there is only one top boss) uncovered and it is not one of the masters. Also you can move those beneath to that "boss" position:
 

Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
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Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I called them Lieutenants because there is only one top boss

Lieu s can be replaced and the PvP master Leo is already inside the syndicate ring(noone gonna miss him btw :D). So yeah masters have been corrupted.( or seen the light?)
And I'm pretty sure a floating necro lady in bone like armor is Catarina.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,005
It's literally Incursion except instead of killing architects you're killing some other dudes.
Only way to be good is if you get to kill Vorici.
 

Radech

Augur
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
505
Only way to be good is if you get to kill Vorici.

But he's invulnerable and the only way to kill him is to open his chest, and the key to that chest is on a rogue exile that despawns the instant you kill one of its escorts.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,975
It's literally Incursion except instead of killing architects you're killing some other dudes.
Only way to be good is if you get to kill Vorici.
In a game about killing lots of stuff and picking up their loot it is expected that new league is going to be about more killing. What the result of that killing is what makes the league interesting. Bestiary neither had interesting killing and result was terribly designed crafting system. Incursion, the result was boring Temple runs.
Maybe this system will be better.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
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not even close
The only master with non-popamole missions that require you to actually put some effor in.
Zana. "Find Vorici and finish his mission".

See? Zana knows what's gud for you. She wants you to git gud.

Btw, I've probably done a few dozen of Zana->Vorici missions by now (lvl8 masters via rotas, every league since FMs' introduction). I don't recall more than a bare handful of them being failed. It's all about motivation. No-one cares about vorici master levels, so ppl fail him all the time. Now, Zana exp is a different thing entirely, so the failure rate is extremely low, even for hard Vorici missions.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
So I studied the announcement content some more, and I like the master system revamp even less now.
Instead of predictable easy way to access most of the mods in short amount of time, you have to GRIND RANDOM MAPS to get your daily missions. Moreover, you're now dependent on completing specific missions under specific circumstances to unlock specific crafting options. Hope you enjoy being a slave to both master AND map RNG to access your deterministing crafting options.
What I liked even less is the new master-crafting mod values - they are freaking TOO HIGH. 25% ms for a pittance? Up to 85 life on boots for chump change? WTF is with that shit? MAster crafting is OP as-is, and they made it stronger? Fuckers. I really hope (lol, right) that they nerv the values back to olde (or lower) values by the release date.
 

Gorn

Novice
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
25
TOO HIGH. 25% ms for a pittance? Up to 85 life on boots for chump change? WTF is with that shit? MAster crafting is OP as-is, and they made it stronger? Fuckers. I really hope (lol, right) that they nerv the values back to olde (or lower) values by the release date.
joing codex private league, be free from trading
What settings do you have in mind?
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,867
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
So I studied the announcement content some more, and I like the master system revamp even less now.
Instead of predictable easy way to access most of the mods in short amount of time, you have to GRIND RANDOM MAPS to get your daily missions. Moreover, you're now dependent on completing specific missions under specific circumstances to unlock specific crafting options. Hope you enjoy being a slave to both master AND map RNG to access your deterministing crafting options.
What I liked even less is the new master-crafting mod values - they are freaking TOO HIGH. 25% ms for a pittance? Up to 85 life on boots for chump change? WTF is with that shit? MAster crafting is OP as-is, and they made it stronger? Fuckers. I really hope (lol, right) that they nerv the values back to olde (or lower) values by the release date.
No daily missions? Or just daily missions can't satisfy some crafts?
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I'm gonna assume that certain content will enable certain crafts, with some of the stronger and more broken options being locked behind some of the harder/rarer content (uber atzoobi/elder, shaper, liches, pale council etc.). Would make sense, really, to have certain missions be linked to bosses. That way you still have the trading-component of people wanting good master-crafts without having the option to craft them themselves. It's gonna suck for SSF, but I don't particularly mind them keeping the trade-interaction around with mastercrafting. Don't have 25% movespeed craft? Ask your friends to do it for you.

Edit: Keep in mind that they will most likely rework the prophecies to work with the new system, so you can just spam delve-prophecies to force the content of your choosing while gaining more recipes for it. Masters also arent just a wild-find or daily missions, but reset those daily missions both daily as well as after a certain amount of areas/maps played. So you could do the hideout-specific missions multiple times a day if you're playing more often.
 
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