Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Theldaran]

Is Underrail actually better than Undertale?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Do we know if Expedition is going to be integrated in the main story game or if it's going to be an appendix at the end? I would like to continue with my campaign but don't want to miss on content.

It will open up around midgame iirc.

 

[Tygrende]

Do we know if Expedition is going to be integrated in the main story game or if it's going to be an appendix at the end? I would like to continue with my campaign but don't want to miss on content.

It's going to be a midgame expansion that you can start at any point in the game. Think New Vegas DLCs. Recommended starting level is 15, but it's can be pretty challenging even for level 25 characters if you are on Hard/DOMINATING.

Edit: I should probably specify that by "any point in the game" I mean "after finding the drill parts".

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Why don't the people herding Molerats want to buy hides and meat? Fuck if I know. What's the point of creating so many traders when they don't buy shit they should be buying? I have to run around all of the levels just to sell 2-3 items to some random person who is looking for those items. Everything else I am carrying is useless apparently.
Was bartering intentionally designed to be as shit as possible? Mission accomplished.

Shut up Al Fabet

Talking about characters/worldbuilding, Al Fabet is a great example of how UR nails it imo; Well-written, funny, a tad meta and fondly memorable even while being completely inconsequential. It's these kind of pips on the map that can really elevate a game if done well, UR does them well.

 

[SlumLord]

Haven't played UR since before the map update dropped.

Is it worth getting into it again, or should I just buckle down and wait for the XPAC?

 

[ortucis]

Like I already said, melee and ranged is working fine. If I DO decide to restart the game with a new build, I'd probably pick crossbow as secondary. No idea why crossbow doesn't count as ranged, but whatever (I actually just noticed that, I've been using crossbow for few kills thinking it was in ranged skillset as well).

The point of bartering being designed the way it is is that you don't end up hoarding huge amounts of money from looting every container in the game. It's the best way I've seen this problem solved in an RPG.

Exactly. This causes you to re-evaluate what you're carrying with you all the time, what's worth bringing back to your storage container (wherever that might be), or selling what you can and ditching the rest. It almost avoids that age-old terrible CRPG problem where you end up hording and having way too much money far too early in the game. "Almost" because you still end up filthy rich fairly early on if you're smart about managing your inventory. Either way, it ends up being a very fulfilling economy at the end of the day. It seems you always stumble on something you want to spring the big bucks for, leaving you wondering what the best course of action will be.

Makes me really excited to see how the Expedition expansion handles the economy as a whole. I'm sure it's been fully considered.

That makes no sense. I am already hoarding a shitload of stuff in my inventory. The game is just not letting me sell it. There isn't anything clever about it.

If "huge amounts of money" is such a problem, easier way is to just reduce the amount of credits you earn from selling items or increasing the price of items you need to buy, while letting the player unload all of the shit he's picking up. Better than going to an arms dealer and finding out he doesn't want to buy a crossbow but would buy fucking ammo cases.

A lot of fun in RPG's comes from hoarding up stuff from your adventure and unloading it back at the town/base. This game doesn't improve anything, only makes it worse by making the whole process as annoying as possible.

 

[Barbalos]

I kind of didn't mind the loot mechanics myself. You do have a locker btw in your room at SGS where you can dump stuff. And it really doesn't make a lot of sense for these fairly hard-done-by underground settlers to want to buy every piece of junk you pick up, of which there are hundreds. They also do reset the things they will buy after awhile, IIRC. So you can store something in your locker and sell it when they refresh.

I have a good amount of money at the point I'm at, so it's not broken that way for me. I've also not really had a problem affording lots of stuff like grenades, adrenaline, hypos, etc. Maybe it is a bit tighter if you have to buy ammo a lot, I don't know about that.

Otherwise, I sacced all crafting skills so I could have melee, lockpicking and hacking, psi skills, and persuasion. I generally dislike crafting anyway, hopefully my total lack of ability there doesn't bite me later.

 

[Tygrende]

No idea why crossbow doesn't count as ranged, but whatever (I actually just noticed that, I've been using crossbow for few kills thinking it was in ranged skillset as well).

I don't understand what you mean by "ranged skillset". Guns skill increases damage and hit chance of guns, Crossbows skill increases damage and hit chance of crossbows, both of those skills are also affected by your Perception. It's as straightforward as it gets, what is there to be confused about?

That makes no sense. I am already hoarding a shitload of stuff in my inventory. The game is just not letting me sell it. There isn't anything clever about it.

The system is designed to make you think what items are actually worth picking up based on factors like value to weight ratio, sellability, etc. instead of brainlessly hoarding everything that isn't nailed down. You are still free to hoard of course, but there's really no benefit to it.

If "huge amounts of money" is such a problem, easier way is to just reduce the amount of credits you earn from selling items or increasing the price of items you need to buy, while letting the player unload all of the shit he's picking up.

Why would it be better to basically force players to hoard everything they see? That sounds way more tedious than the "smart looting" system we have in the game right now.

Better than going to an arms dealer and finding out he doesn't want to buy a crossbow but would buy fucking ammo cases.

You can easily come up with a plausible explanation for this. Apparently he has enough crossbows in stock as is, so why would he want to buy even more from some random guy? Casings on the other hand he can reload and sell, which is why he is willing to buy them from you for pennies.

A lot of fun in RPG's comes from hoarding up stuff from your adventure and unloading it back at the town/base. This game doesn't improve anything, only makes it worse by making the whole process as annoying as possible.

You still collect loot and sell it to merchants, the only difference being that you don't need to pick everything you see.

 

[AwesomeButton]

That makes no sense. I am already hoarding a shitload of stuff in my inventory. The game is just not letting me sell it. There isn't anything clever about it.

But you can't buy anything with that stuff.

"It just works"

 

[Strange Fellow]

That makes no sense. I am already hoarding a shitload of stuff in my inventory. The game is just not letting me sell it. There isn't anything clever about it.

If "huge amounts of money" is such a problem, easier way is to just reduce the amount of credits you earn from selling items or increasing the price of items you need to buy, while letting the player unload all of the shit he's picking up. Better than going to an arms dealer and finding out he doesn't want to buy a crossbow but would buy fucking ammo cases.

A lot of fun in RPG's comes from hoarding up stuff from your adventure and unloading it back at the town/base. This game doesn't improve anything, only makes it worse by making the whole process as annoying as possible.

Shut up Al Fabet

On a more serious note, "it makes no sense" is a completely backwards complaint. It DOES make sense, and the only reason why one would think it doesn't is years of conditioning from similar games. I doubt there are many people in real life scavenging abandoned military facilities, but say you're rummaging around a deceased relative's attic -- it would be a waste of time to bring everything you find to your local pawn shop, but say you spot a vintage radio, and old box of comic books, something you suspect could fetch a decent price. Underrail "cheats," of course, by showing you the value of all the items in the gameworld, greatly simplifying the process, but that's the mindset you should have when considering what to bring with you and what to leave behind.

I should also say that if you're having money troubles, don't worry. That won't last long.

 

[Fenix]

I agree there could be sprinting out of combat or something.

You could Spring out of combat - if you have it. It increase you movement speed.
Also in general you can get +50% movement speed with crafting, and that is more then enough for me. Usually walking speed feels slow only untill you get your first tabis.

you can disable between-area autosaves to quick up the movement between areas.

That;s a good thing, auto-saves usually creates more problems then it solves.

The speedhack doesn't touch your saves, you'd have to be editing values for any risk.

There could be bugs related only to cheatengine. Rare and minor but still.

light-armor stealth hammer intimidating shout

I did it, except Yell. Hard, not optimal build because I like to have Perception, it could be even stronger I guess.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Gnidrologist]

Tbh, i don't like the restrained inventory/itemization shit in these kind of games. It's not some kind of survival game, where that's the whole point of gameplay. Besides the speed options i also enabled unlimited weight, because quite frankly, if you want to craft shit, which is already time consuming endeavour, you don't want to go back and forth from location to location to gather needed scrap or constantly return to your locker in some remote place to swap items and compare if what you found is of better quality than what you already had in locker. I'm okay with merchants buying limited amount of goods though. You can reload a save before entering barter screen to get better option, if you like, as they randomize.

 

[Wayward Son]

So I restarted the game with a diplosniper explosives expert and... it's really fun. Like REALLY FUN. Like, my build is equipped to handle every combat encounter for the most part, but i still have to figure a way to tackle them. Jumping out of air vents in the Omega compound early on, shooting a camera out to hide myself and stunning three robots to give myself time to figure out a defense of HE Grenades was something that I don't think I'd have done in most other games. Taking out the raiders in the last floor was so satisfying especially since I got my first assault rifle.
On the barter system, I actually really like it. It feels like an actual barter negotiation between two people where each has something the other wants rather than just me dumping thousands of creds of loot on some poor guy who now has to find a way to sell it all.

 

[ortucis]

I kind of didn't mind the loot mechanics myself. You do have a locker btw in your room at SGS where you can dump stuff. And it really doesn't make a lot of sense for these fairly hard-done-by underground settlers to want to buy every piece of junk you pick up, of which there are hundreds. They also do reset the things they will buy after awhile, IIRC. So you can store something in your locker and sell it when they refresh.

Yeah but I'm not bring them any junk. Everything this game drops so far is for crafting, mostly. People who sell the same crafting supplies, realistically, would buy these from an adventurer for dirt cheap and re-sell it at higher prices to everybody else. That makes more sense in a "apocalyptic" society than just "NO WE ONLY WANT 2 MUSSHROOMS, FUCK ALL THAT STUFF THAT CAN MAKE ME MORE MONEH!".

On a more serious note, "it makes no sense" is a completely backwards complaint. It DOES make sense, and the only reason why one would think it doesn't is years of conditioning from similar games. I doubt there are many people in real life scavenging abandoned military facilities, but say you're rummaging around a deceased relative's attic -- it would be a waste of time to bring everything you find to your local pawn shop, but say you spot a vintage radio, and old box of comic books, something you suspect could fetch a decent price. Underrail "cheats," of course, by showing you the value of all the items in the gameworld, greatly simplifying the process, but that's the mindset you should have when considering what to bring with you and what to leave behind.

At this point, the game is just telling you to focus on crafting or keep hanging on to the useless shit you pick up or focus on trading with that Bethesda style "Radiant Quest" mini-game system, where you hunt for random shit traders want every few days.

Trading in this game is awful. They are sending this guy into the forbidden areas and can't be arsed with buying all of the shit he brings back, stuff they aren't exactly growing on trees. Oh right, the game magically resets their unlimited inventory for them, that's more realistic/fun amirite Codex?

 

[Black Angel]

That makes more sense in a "apocalyptic" society than just "NO WE ONLY WANT 2 MUSSHROOMS, FUCK ALL THAT STUFF THAT CAN MAKE ME MORE MONEH!".

Except Underrail isn't an "apocalyptic" society. If it is, how the fuck does settlements like South Gate Station seemed like they've been running for decades, or even close to a hundred years? It has hydroponics, it has its own research department, even a fully functioning medical facility, what part of those are "apocalyptic"? And wait until you get to Core City, and oh, not to mention bloody trains coming and going across the South Underrail. No way an "apocalyptic" society can run and maintain trains and its tracks.

The only part of Underrail that can be deemed as "apocalyptic" society is the Junkyard.
Also,

in Arcanum, merchants also only accept certain items, instead of ALL the junks, except in Underrail we're literally being told what kind of items the merchants are looking for, while in Arcanum we have to guess what kind of items a merchant would be willing to buy. Even the Junk Dealers won't accept just about any junks. Though, iirc, at least a Master of Haggle can sell literally anything, so Arcanum had that going for it.

 

[ortucis]

That makes more sense in a "apocalyptic" society than just "NO WE ONLY WANT 2 MUSSHROOMS, FUCK ALL THAT STUFF THAT CAN MAKE ME MORE MONEH!".

Except Underrail isn't an "apocalyptic" society. If it is, how the fuck does settlements like South Gate Station seemed like they've been running for decades, or even close to a hundred years? It has hydroponics, it has its own research department, even a fully functioning medical facility, what part of those are "apocalyptic"? And wait until you get to Core City, and oh, not to mention bloody trains coming and going across the South Underrail. No way an "apocalyptic" society can run and maintain trains and its tracks.

The only part of Underrail that can be deemed as "apocalyptic" society is the Junkyard.

So according to you, Fallout society isn't apocalyptic as well? They have working nuclear reactors, power armors and freakin lasers..

Also,

in Arcanum, merchants also only accept certain items, instead of ALL the junks, except in Underrail we're literally being told what kind of items the merchants are looking for, while in Arcanum we have to guess what kind of items a merchant would be willing to buy. Even the Junk Dealers won't accept just about any junks. Though, iirc, at least a Master of Haggle can sell literally anything, so Arcanum had that going for it.

I never had to guess what a merchant in Arcanum wanted. You go and sell shit. They didn't turn you down for not having what THEY wanted more. A proper way to design Underrail like "needs" for traders is to make them pay extra for items THEY want while still buying other shit you sell for reduced prices. On top of that, any merchant can buy anything you want to sell, except if the merchant doesn't specialize in those items (let's say, an armorer), they'll pay you less for those items than a merchant who deals in the stuff you're selling.

I'm enjoying the game but when it comes to trading, it's terrible. I enjoy trading in RPG's, I'm a hoarder. This game took the fun part out of trading and made it pointlessly complicated. Not a fan of "Radiant Trading", not playing Underrail 76 here.

 

[Sykar]

That makes more sense in a "apocalyptic" society than just "NO WE ONLY WANT 2 MUSSHROOMS, FUCK ALL THAT STUFF THAT CAN MAKE ME MORE MONEH!".

Except Underrail isn't an "apocalyptic" society. If it is, how the fuck does settlements like South Gate Station seemed like they've been running for decades, or even close to a hundred years? It has hydroponics, it has its own research department, even a fully functioning medical facility, what part of those are "apocalyptic"? And wait until you get to Core City, and oh, not to mention bloody trains coming and going across the South Underrail. No way an "apocalyptic" society can run and maintain trains and its tracks.

The only part of Underrail that can be deemed as "apocalyptic" society is the Junkyard.

So according to you, Fallout society isn't apocalyptic as well? They have working nuclear reactors, power armors and freakin lasers..

Also,

in Arcanum, merchants also only accept certain items, instead of ALL the junks, except in Underrail we're literally being told what kind of items the merchants are looking for, while in Arcanum we have to guess what kind of items a merchant would be willing to buy. Even the Junk Dealers won't accept just about any junks. Though, iirc, at least a Master of Haggle can sell literally anything, so Arcanum had that going for it.

I never had to guess what a merchant in Arcanum wanted. You go and sell shit. They didn't turn you down for not having what THEY wanted more. A proper way to design Underrail like "needs" for traders is to make them pay extra for items THEY want while still buying other shit you sell for reduced prices. On top of that, any merchant can buy anything you want to sell, except if the merchant doesn't specialize in those items (let's say, an armorer), they'll pay you less for those items than a merchant who deals in the stuff you're selling.

I'm enjoying the game but when it comes to trading, it's terrible. I enjoy trading in RPG's, I'm a hoarder. This game took the fun part out of trading and made it pointlessly complicated. Not a fan of "Radiant Trading", not playing Underrail 76 here.

Bullshit. It never made sense that merchants would buy everything from you changing prices for certain categories does not change that sheer retardation. UnderRail's merchants actually make sense to some degree. Seems like players like you got coddled by decline shit thinking every merchants needs to buy every piece of garbage you offer.
It really is that simple, grab only a few high value items and sell those. This saves a lot of time and grief and you can still get rich if you select the loot you take with you carefully.

 

[Black Angel]

So according to you, Fallout society isn't apocalyptic as well? They have working nuclear reactors, power armors and freakin lasers..

What constitute an "apocalyptic" society? Scavenging for literally every kind of shit, all the way to scrapping the bottom of a barrel? If so, then I wouldn't consider the society of Fallout 2 "apocalyptic" at all. In fact, by the time of Fallout 1, they're mostly proper post-apocalyptic society thanks to the fact that there are trading routes up and running to and from The Hub.

Now, tell me a city in Fallout that has the same degree of infrastructure like South Gate Station. Having its own hydroponics, research departments, and fully-functioning medical facility, bet none in Fallout can really counts as much. Wait, there's New Vegas, but wait! By the time of New Vegas, most of the society is at the phase of post-post-post-apocalyptic, so not even pure 'apocalyptic' where people scrounge every nook and cranny for junks and thus much more willing to buy your shit no matter how crap they are (even though because of broken Bethshitda's engine they allowed you to sell literally everything).

Yes, in Fallout 1&2 you're allowed to sell literally everything, but with that comes a lot of complaints about broken economy. Hell, broken economy is part of the oldest problems in many cRPGs, and Underrail's tried its best to circumvent that. I could go on to tell you why Underrail is not an "apocalyptic" society, and there's reasons why merchants not accepting just about any kind of shit from you, but you're the one who admitted that you're a storyfag, so go ahead and find out the whys yourself.

I never had to guess what a merchant in Arcanum wanted. You go and sell shit.

Then you'd better replay the game, and see for yourself because phrases like, "Definitely a classy item, but I'm not interested in that." are things you'll encounter many times when you try to sell shit at a merchant in Arcanum

They didn't turn you down for not having what THEY wanted more. A proper way to design Underrail like "needs" for traders is to make them pay extra for items THEY want while still buying other shit you sell for reduced prices.

Does explanations like what Tygrende brought up not suffice for you? Again, WHY would traders be willing to buy your shit, even at reduced prices, WHEN they have those shit in stock?

On top of that, any merchant can buy anything you want to sell, except if the merchant doesn't specialize in those items (let's say, an armorer), they'll pay you less for those items than a merchant who deals in the stuff you're selling.

Even Arcanum doesn't do any kind of this bullshit. For example, go ahead bringing a an Elephant Gun to a magick shop, and they will NOT buy it, unless you're a trained in Haggle.

I'm enjoying the game but when it comes to trading, it's terrible. I enjoy trading in RPG's, I'm a hoarder. This game took the fun part out of trading and made it pointlessly complicated. Not a fan of "Radiant Trading", not playing Underrail 76 here.

fucking storyfags. When a game with gameplay mechanics has some plausible narrative explanation, they suddenly lose interest in those kinds of games.

 

[Tygrende]

So according to you, Fallout society isn't apocalyptic as well? They have working nuclear reactors, power armors and freakin lasers..

I'm not sure how having nuclear reactors, power armors and lasers makes society "apocalyptic". We have all of those things in real life right now more or less, do we live in an apocalyptic society?

I don't want to spoil the story for you too much, but you know how New Vegas is sometimes called post-post-apocalyptic because of how many years it has been since the Great War and because civilization is coming back? You could call Underrail post-post-post-apocalyptic because

Spoiler

the catastrophic event that made Earth uninhabitable happened centuries ago, common folks don't think about or even know what surface is and the widespread poverty you see in South Underrail has nothing to do with it, it's mostly a result of a civil war that happened a few years back.

 

[Jacob]

I'd say apocalyptic setting is DOOM 2 when demons invaded earth.

 

[Gord]

Well, since by definition post-apoc settings depict society or what's left thereoff at some point after the apocalypse happened, an apocalyptic setting would be one where the apocalypse is still ongoing. E.g. one set during or at least closely around a big war that destroys the depicted society (in terms of movies, "The day after" might be a good example). Or during the aforementioned demon invasion, but in the scope of the post-apoc-setting, it doesn't have to be supernatural.

 

[Parabalus]

The point of bartering being designed the way it is is that you don't end up hoarding huge amounts of money from looting every container in the game. It's the best way I've seen this problem solved in an RPG.

Exactly. This causes you to re-evaluate what you're carrying with you all the time, what's worth bringing back to your storage container (wherever that might be), or selling what you can and ditching the rest. It almost avoids that age-old terrible CRPG problem where you end up hording and having way too much money far too early in the game. "Almost" because you still end up filthy rich fairly early on if you're smart about managing your inventory. Either way, it ends up being a very fulfilling economy at the end of the day. It seems you always stumble on something you want to spring the big bucks for, leaving you wondering what the best course of action will be.

Makes me really excited to see how the Expedition expansion handles the economy as a whole. I'm sure it's been fully considered.

It causes you to dump loot at the feet of merchants, selling it bit by bit every time you happen to pass by them.

Still a step above most games though.

 

[Jinn]

It causes you to dump loot at the feet of merchants, selling it bit by bit every time you happen to pass by them.

Still a step above most games though.

Hahaha! I've actually never thought of doing this.

 

[ortucis]

Spent more time playing this, I can confirm that trading is still a pile of shit in this game.

I like the burst fire SMG mode in tight corners though. That's fun.

 

[Strange Fellow]

At this point, the game is just telling you to focus on crafting or keep hanging on to the useless shit you pick up or focus on trading with that Bethesda style "Radiant Quest" mini-game system, where you hunt for random shit traders want every few days.

The game's actually telling you the exact opposite --don't hang on to useless shit. If you can't use it, leave it be. You can't be a hoarder in this game, I'm afraid. As for what items merchants are willing to buy, it was never a matter of guesswork for me. It follows a straightforward pattern: gun traders buy guns/ammo, chemists buy chemicals, doctors buy healing items/drugs, etc. You'll get a feel for it soon enough. Besides which, there's not much of a benefit to obsessively exhausting the merchants' buy lists past the very early game.