Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[thesheeep]

There is no legitimate concern here. If there was, I wouldn't dismiss it.
He, just like you usually are, is simply imagining and seeing enemies in everything. That is paranoia, and it undermines the entire "conservative" position just as SJWs undermine progressive positions.
I recommend understanding the tale of the boy who cried wolf...

You are just claiming SJWs are far, far worse because it suits your ideology. The truth is that for every ridiculous SJW explosion on some social media, you can find another equally ridiculous ball of bullshit on right-wing sides. Which one you find worse is merely a matter of preference.
It is also irrelevant who started something, the only thing that matters is the status quo, which is that we have two extremist factions that both suck equally and we'd be better off without either.
Of course, it is too late for that, so I hope you're starting to build your bunker not only radiation, but also propaganda proof

You are a joke, and are trying to claim the moral highground while trying to defend the indefensible: SJW shits.

If you actually read my post, you would've seen that not only do I not defend SJWs, but I put them in the lowest of shit-tiers.
Just like I do with people doing exactly what they do, just from the other side.
I don't need to take a moral high ground, you hand it to me freely, with a medal and with a fanfare.

You know, quite a funny thing: In another forum, I was attacked as being right-wing, sexist, racist and homophobic (yup, all at once, and none of it true). Why? I had the audacity of questioning the story of how gamergate was from its inception planned to be what it turned out to be (it was a leaderless movement, so there couldn't have been a "plan" to begin with).
Anyway... for the SJWs among that forum's populace, that disagreement was enough to see in me their worst enemy, project everything they consider bad onto me. I wasn't with them 100%, so I was obviously against them 100%. I did the inexcusable in their eyes: Defend the enemy (even though I didn't, but their twisted perception of reality did not allow them to see anything in non black-white). So I became the enemy.
You are so blind, and so delirious, that you don't even notice that there is not a single important difference between what you do and what an SJW does. One and the same. Extremists are always retarded and always harmful, their position doesn't even matter.

Well, this has been fun, but now I'll shut up about it or this will get moved to GD - and I won't spoil a perfectly fine Sunday going there.

 

[Israfael]

Farming Pitax Influence for +20 to (almost) everything a few times also helped.

How the f you actually did that? For me, all stats decreased on Pithax influence triumph/success (although less so as compared to ignore/failure), I actually noticed it quite late, so some of my stats went sub-100

 

[Haplo]

I believe Crane Wing/Riposte have been fixed not to work when both your hands are occupied. Spell Combat counts as occupying your offhand with spellcasting.
It used to work before.

So it appears I have to slightly modify my Sword Saint build.

 

[Seari]

I can't stop restarting with new builds, someone help, I'll be stuck in ch1 forever.

 

[Sykar]

I can't stop restarting with new builds, someone help, I'll be stuck in ch1 forever.

Welcome to the club son, and it only gets worse next friday when the Tiefling race will get introduced.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

What kind of level and build do you have? I go in fully buffed as a grp level 16, and one of my guys just die to the crystal shots in seconds. Not sure which spell actually blocks it.

The party is currently level 17 (close to 18 though).
I wanted a character that 1)does loads of damage and 2) has a high enough armor class to actually stay in melee against anybody
That means a high DEX char with a level dip in monk to add another STAT on AC and to use the monk robes.
I started with DEX 20, WIS 14, INT 14 - in hindsight I would do it differently tho.
Knifemaster 4 finesse training kukris, you need to spend the feat on martial weapons, level 4 gives uncanny dodge so you're no longer flat-footed at the start of combat which is nice and also bewildering injury as a stacking debuff
Traditional Monk 1 (crane style, a good upgrade for defensive fighting which you will use 24/7, +3 will saves and WIS -> AC)
Vivisectionist all the rest, vivi spellcasting, sneak dice, mutagen, the upgraded version on lvl12 is really great, mummification at lvl10 makes you immune to paralyze

Fully buffed AC is around 68 now, add to that +3 aasimar wings and +4 defensive fighting for a whopping ~75 in melee. There's also the amulett with +5 insight bonus to AC but I gave it to Harrim.
I guess it's possible to start with a higher WIS (take some points from CON and INT) it's also possible to use CHA instead of WIS, take a level of CHA monk instead and get 2 lvls of pally. Then you would also have very high saves in addition the the very high AC but you would only get the upgraded mutagen at level 19... unless you take one knifemaster level less, or play with a smaller party(to actually get to 19). Well technically I guess just going monk1/pally2/vivi x will work just fine, it's not like knifemaster levels are required. Then you could just take weapon finesse, an agile rapier and even use crane wing while single wielding for even bigger AC.

As for the wild hunt. Well buff up maximally. That crystal shit is a touch attack so they still have to hit you. Heroic Invocation (from the glaive). Blur/mirror image/improved invis as available, seamantle, frightful aspect, legendary proportions. communal stoneskin, communal protection from arrows , every bit helps. That crystal spam can quickly kill characters, happened to me too, especially the animal companions tend to die easily despite their high AC. Kill them quicker xD, against a group of 10-15 (this is upstairs in the house, only cleared downstairs so far) one probably has to resort to spamming cloudkill, stinking cloud and sirocco because that just are too many. The merchant outside sells a tower shield that makes the party improved invisible, it says 20 charges but actually works all the time. Perhaps this helps. Unfortunately none of my chars can equip a tower shield.

 

[Jaedar]

Farming Pitax Influence for +20 to (almost) everything a few times also helped.

How the f you actually did that? For me, all stats decreased on Pithax influence triumph/success (although less so as compared to ignore/failure), I actually noticed it quite late, so some of my stats went sub-100

In my experience, the game reports +20, even though your stats go down. Took me a while to notice... Some of my stats are in the deep shitter now because I was running some derpy research projects and couldn't advance the storyline.

Also, the kingdom stuff got really hard for me somewhere after chapter 4-5. DC 30+ checks with tier 2 advisors who I had barely had time to rank up (and most of the options for these advisor slots kinda suck, completely unlike the first ones where you'll easily slot in a companion with +5 *before* you stack items on them). No idea how you're supposed to get a decent chance of success on them in time.

I can't stop restarting with new builds, someone help, I'll be stuck in ch1 forever.

You can recruit npcs during the game to satisfy your build addiction.

 

[TT1]

There are a lot of problems (not only bugs) with the House at the Edge of Time. The entire dungeon seems like its totally apart from the game, a lot of filler encounters, shitty loot, the same fights over and over again, in both words. Basically you have to fight the same encounters twice.

Also, this is the only place in the game that I can see a lot of visual bugs happening one after another. Light effects blinking, spell effects with purple canvas, chests that are impossible to interact with, enemies stuck and not reacting...

They need to fix it, not just the bugs, but they need to rethink this entire dungeon.

 

[Sykar]

Found an interesting "tier list": http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406093-How-Accurate-Is-This-Tier-Chart

>Tier 1:
Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Witch, Sorcerer (Razmiran Priest/False Priest), Oracle (Paragon Surge/Lunar/Ancient Lorekeeper etc.), Arcanist, Shaman, Psychic

>Tier 2:
Oracle, Sorcerer, Summoner, Magus (Hexcrafter), Bard (Magician), Skald (UMD/Expanded Spell Kenning)

>Tier 3:
Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, Investigator, Warpriest, Paladin (Sacred Servant), Hunter, Skald, Mesmerist, Occultist, Spiritualist, Bloodrager (Monstrous Physique UMD)

>Tier 4:
Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Adept, Brawler, Slayer, Fighter (Eldritch Guardian/Lore Warden/Mutation Warrior/Martial Master/Drill Sergeant), Bloodrager, Medium

>Tier 5:
Cavalier, Samurai, Fighter, Gunslinger, Rogue, Ninja, Swashbuckler, Monk (Archetypes - namely Qinggong Monk), Kineticist

>Tier 6:
Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner, Expert, Monk (Core Only)

From this thread: http://ktownpbp.forumotion.com/t27-pathfinder-tier-list

Tier 1:
Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world changing powers at high levels. These guys, if played well, can break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

Tier 2:
Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

Tier 3:
Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

Tier 4:
Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Tier 5:
Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well, or so unfocused that they have trouble mastering anything, and in many types of encounters the character cannot contribute. In some cases, can do one thing very well, but that one thing is very often not needed. Has trouble shining in any encounter unless the rest of the party is weak in that situation and the encounter matches their strengths. DMs may have to work to avoid the player feeling that their character is worthless unless the entire party is Tier 4 and below. Characters in this tier will often feel like one trick ponies if they do well, or just feel like they have no tricks at all if they build the class poorly.

Tier 6:
Not even capable of shining in their own area of expertise. DMs will need to work hard to make encounters that this sort of character can contribute in with their mechanical abilities. Will often feel worthless unless the character is seriously powergamed beyond belief, and even then won't be terribly impressive. Needs to fight enemies of lower than normal CR. Class is often completely unsynergized or with almost no abilities of merit. Avoid allowing PCs to play these characters.

Do you guys think that this is roughly the same for the computer adaptation?

 

[ArchAngel]

It is not the same. Here Tier 1 is anything with Sneak Attack :D

 

[Luckmann]

But if you want to use the science analogy and talk about contaminating results, then Bart's experimental set up doesn't hold up as such. One sample size is useless in medical research, because one sample can always be the outlier that posseses traits not representative of the rest of the population

It's a poor comparison, because we're dealing with trolls and regeneration. Whatever Bart is getting at is likely already well established, much like I don't need to have multiple samples to experiment on humans in order to confirm that humans have one heart, not two, three, or four. He could be - for example - trying to find the magical source of the trolls' regenerative ability, and if so, given that he still haven't figured this out for even a single specimen, an increased sample size would be useless. Once he has figured it out for one, there's no reason to think that he wouldn't get more samples and repeat examination in order to confirm findings.

Really, Barty may be Evil, but we don't know nearly enough to question his methodology. We don't even know what he's researching, specifically.

Do you guys think that this is roughly the same for the computer adaptation?

No, the Tiers do not apply in any way whatsoever for CRPG's. They're pretty dodgy already in PnP, outside of an optimization environment, but in a CRPG, it's simply inapplicable.

 

[zapotec]

It is not the same. Here Tier 1 is anything with Sneak Attack :D

What's the deal with sneak attack?

 

[Serus]

Shadenuat what build is radagast?

He is a Wizard, "the Brown", haven't you read Tolkien? Duh.

 

[Serus]

What's the deal with sneak attack?

TL;DR version - You can sneak attack basically anything, including things that shouldn't be vulnerable to sneak attack. And the requirements for sneak attack are basically have another dude sitting next to the dude you're attacking.

Saying "things that shouldn't be vulnerable" is technically speaking incorrect. It's just that Pathfinder (pnp ruleset and in this case P:K surprisingly kept it) has different rules compared to D&D 3.5 when it comes to what is and what isn't vulnerable.
The requirements on the other hand aren't according to anything. Add to what D_X said the fact that you can combine ranged attacks with sneak attacks quite easily as well.
The end result is that sneak damage is almost guaranteed which makes builds using this mechanic relatively stronger than in pnp. Whether it's good or bad is another discussion, let's not go there.

Autism mode off.

 

[Anthedon]

Is it sensible to level rogue a few times just for the sneak attack bonus? If and when you can spare the XP (I'm still in the early stages).

 

[Sykar]

Is it sensible to level rogue a few times just for the sneak attack bonus? If and when you can spare the XP (I'm still in the early stages).

Depends on your build.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Do you guys think that this is roughly the same for the computer adaptation?

My personal Tier list:
1) Alchemist - most versatile and useful caster class in game.
2) Inquisitor - capable doing job of cleric (besides of healing, but it doesn't matter) while being much better skill monkey.
3) Ranger - there 3 types of enemies that you would regularly encounter and they all fit in favorite enemy list.
4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.
5) Bard - ideally fits into situation when idiots from your party left you alone and you need spot secrets or traps/lock-pick chest/persuade npc. Also have useful buffs in big amounts.
5) Magus - fighter-mage multiclass, but it's 2 classes in 1 from start.
6) Fighter or Paladin capable being tank - party obligatory needs 2 of them, they low in my list because without buffs fighter under perform and Paladin have alignment restrictions. And they in my opinion is boring to play.
7) Monk - despite that some people love Monk, my experience was that this piece of shit can't hit an enemy and dies after enemy hits back. I think I am doing something wrong, but my impression was not positive.
8) Cleric under performs as front line melee character (in my opinion) + got less skills than Inquisitor ( Ecclesitheurge is useful as caster, but again much less skills). Wizard is too versatile for this game, encounters is not that diverse + there is no unique uses for non-combat spells (besides healing)).
9) Rogue - trap finding/lock-picking/searching for secrets can be done by bard or alchemist, or any other class with Dexterity and Perception as class skill. Rogue can't offer anything spectacular to the party.
10) Barbarian - another melee dps, nothing interesting.
11) Druid, I don't think I know how to build Druid and people who brag about how great this class can't explain whats great in this class and how to build normal druid. There is no guidelines either, so I assume that this is a bad class and useful only for people who too nostalgic about BG.
12) Prestige classes efforts to have a one not worth it in my opinion.

Is it sensible to level rogue a few times just for the sneak attack bonus? If and when you can spare the XP (I'm still in the early stages).

Vivisectionist got sneak attack on first level.

P.S. Sorry if my notes about Druid offend someone, but there seriously almost no information about build and how build differs from PnP version.

 

[ArchAngel]

Do you guys think that this is roughly the same for the computer adaptation?

My personal Tier list:
1) Alchemist - most versatile and useful caster class in game.
2) Inquisitor - capable doing job of cleric (besides of healing, but it doesn't matter) while being much better skill monkey.
3) Ranger - there 3 types of enemies that you would regularly encounter and they all fit in favorite enemy list.
4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.
5) Bard - ideally fits into situation when idiots from your party left you alone and you need spot secrets or traps/lock-pick chest/persuade npc. Also have useful buffs in big amounts.
5) Magus - fighter-mage multiclass, but it's 2 classes in 1 from start.
6) Fighter or Paladin capable being tank - party obligatory needs 2 of them, they low in my list because without buffs fighter under perform and Paladin have alignment restrictions. And they in my opinion is boring to play.
7) Monk - despite that some people love Monk, my experience was that this piece of shit can't hit an enemy and dies after enemy hits back. I think I am doing something wrong, but my impression was not positive.
8) Cleric under performs as front line melee character (in my opinion) + got less skills than Inquisitor ( Ecclesitheurge is useful as caster, but again much less skills). Wizard is too versatile for this game, encounters is not that diverse + there is no unique uses for non-combat spells (besides healing)).
9) Rogue - trap finding/lock-picking/searching for secrets can be done by bard or alchemist, or any other class with Dexterity and Perception as class skill. Rogue can't offer anything spectacular to the party.
10) Barbarian - another melee dps, nothing interesting.
11) Druid, I don't think I know how to build Druid and people who brag about how great this class can't explain whats great in this class and how to build normal druid. There is no guidelines either, so I assume that this is a bad class and useful only for people who too nostalgic about BG.
12) Prestige classes efforts to have a one not worth it in my opinion.

Is it sensible to level rogue a few times just for the sneak attack bonus? If and when you can spare the XP (I'm still in the early stages).

Vivisectionist got sneak attack on first level.

P.S. Sorry if my notes about Druid offend someone, but there seriously almost no information about build and how build differs from PnP version.

Any list that does not have Rogue in the position of #1 or #2 is a terrible list. Unless this is a list for solo play where rogue cannot really sneak attack.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Knife Master Rogue is pretty fuckin' beastly in this game due to how flanking/sneak attacks work. Don't even need to buff them up, stand them next to your meat shield and watch things die.

 

[Thonius]

Do you guys think that this is roughly the same for the computer adaptation?

My personal Tier list:
1) Alchemist - most versatile and useful caster class in game.
2) Inquisitor - capable doing job of cleric (besides of healing, but it doesn't matter) while being much better skill monkey.
3) Ranger - there 3 types of enemies that you would regularly encounter and they all fit in favorite enemy list.
4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.
5) Bard - ideally fits into situation when idiots from your party left you alone and you need spot secrets or traps/lock-pick chest/persuade npc. Also have useful buffs in big amounts.
5) Magus - fighter-mage multiclass, but it's 2 classes in 1 from start.
6) Fighter or Paladin capable being tank - party obligatory needs 2 of them, they low in my list because without buffs fighter under perform and Paladin have alignment restrictions. And they in my opinion is boring to play.
7) Monk - despite that some people love Monk, my experience was that this piece of shit can't hit an enemy and dies after enemy hits back. I think I am doing something wrong, but my impression was not positive.
8) Cleric under performs as front line melee character (in my opinion) + got less skills than Inquisitor ( Ecclesitheurge is useful as caster, but again much less skills). Wizard is too versatile for this game, encounters is not that diverse + there is no unique uses for non-combat spells (besides healing)).
9) Rogue - trap finding/lock-picking/searching for secrets can be done by bard or alchemist, or any other class with Dexterity and Perception as class skill. Rogue can't offer anything spectacular to the party.
10) Barbarian - another melee dps, nothing interesting.
11) Druid, I don't think I know how to build Druid and people who brag about how great this class can't explain whats great in this class and how to build normal druid. There is no guidelines either, so I assume that this is a bad class and useful only for people who too nostalgic about BG.
12) Prestige classes efforts to have a one not worth it in my opinion.

Is it sensible to level rogue a few times just for the sneak attack bonus? If and when you can spare the XP (I'm still in the early stages).

Vivisectionist got sneak attack on first level.

P.S. Sorry if my notes about Druid offend someone, but there seriously almost no information about build and how build differs from PnP version.

Disagree on prestige classes. See example of my DD

Spoiler

 

[Lawntoilet]

I believe Crane Wing/Riposte have been fixed not to work when both your hands are occupied. Spell Combat counts as occupying your offhand with spellcasting.
It used to work before.

So it appears I have to slightly modify my Sword Saint build.

Well, nuts.
In that case, what feats would you and/or VentilatorOfDoom take instead of Crane Wing+Riposte for a Magus?
Besides the ones that seem obvious like Spell Pen, etc.

 

[razvedchiki]

whats the deal of the limited song bards have?they can only sing a couple of turns per day,in dnd they sing all day without restrictions.

 

[Jaedar]

What's the deal with sneak attack?

TL;DR version - You can sneak attack basically anything, including things that shouldn't be vulnerable to sneak attack. And the requirements for sneak attack are basically have another dude sitting next to the dude you're attacking.

Pretty sure sneak attack vulnerability is as in PnP, and the requirement is that 2 melee dudes are 'focused' on the same enemy(not necessarily having attacked yet, but intending to do so). Melee sneak attackers can be one of the two.

1) Alchemist - most versatile and useful caster class in game.
2) Inquisitor - capable doing job of cleric (besides of healing, but it doesn't matter) while being much better skill monkey.

Certainly agree on this. Alchemist being able to cast shield and barkskin on is just ridiculously good buffing. A vivisectionist does really good melee damage (only slightly behind knife rogue), and a bombardier is basically able to outperform sorc/wiz in dps. 1 Alchemist level just for the +4 to a stat is also a really good dip for any noncaster.
Inquisitors get the important cleric spells (like death ward) on same character level as clerics, which just makes their worse spell progression almost meaningless.

3) Ranger - there 3 types of enemies that you would regularly encounter and they all fit in favorite enemy list.

Fey, magical beasts and beasts or ?

11) Druid, I don't think I know how to build Druid and people who brag about how great this class can't explain whats great in this class and how to build normal druid. There is no guidelines either, so I assume that this is a bad class and useful only for people who too nostalgic about BG.

Druid seems like a mediocre caster that comes with 2 mediocre bodies for fighting. Not super impressive.

 

[Parabalus]

Do you guys think that this is roughly the same for the computer adaptation?

My personal Tier list:
1) Alchemist - most versatile and useful caster class in game.
2) Inquisitor - capable doing job of cleric (besides of healing, but it doesn't matter) while being much better skill monkey.
3) Ranger - there 3 types of enemies that you would regularly encounter and they all fit in favorite enemy list.
4) Sorceror - better than Wizard in late game.
5) Bard - ideally fits into situation when idiots from your party left you alone and you need spot secrets or traps/lock-pick chest/persuade npc. Also have useful buffs in big amounts.
5) Magus - fighter-mage multiclass, but it's 2 classes in 1 from start.
6) Fighter or Paladin capable being tank - party obligatory needs 2 of them, they low in my list because without buffs fighter under perform and Paladin have alignment restrictions. And they in my opinion is boring to play.
7) Monk - despite that some people love Monk, my experience was that this piece of shit can't hit an enemy and dies after enemy hits back. I think I am doing something wrong, but my impression was not positive.
8) Cleric under performs as front line melee character (in my opinion) + got less skills than Inquisitor ( Ecclesitheurge is useful as caster, but again much less skills). Wizard is too versatile for this game, encounters is not that diverse + there is no unique uses for non-combat spells (besides healing)).
9) Rogue - trap finding/lock-picking/searching for secrets can be done by bard or alchemist, or any other class with Dexterity and Perception as class skill. Rogue can't offer anything spectacular to the party.
10) Barbarian - another melee dps, nothing interesting.
11) Druid, I don't think I know how to build Druid and people who brag about how great this class can't explain whats great in this class and how to build normal druid. There is no guidelines either, so I assume that this is a bad class and useful only for people who too nostalgic about BG.
12) Prestige classes efforts to have a one not worth it in my opinion.

Is it sensible to level rogue a few times just for the sneak attack bonus? If and when you can spare the XP (I'm still in the early stages).

Vivisectionist got sneak attack on first level.

P.S. Sorry if my notes about Druid offend someone, but there seriously almost no information about build and how build differs from PnP version.

Any list that does not have Rogue in the position of #1 or #2 is a terrible list. Unless this is a list for solo play where rogue cannot really sneak attack.

Vivisectionist is much better for adding SA damage than rogue, except for KM.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Any list that does not have Rogue in the position of #1 or #2 is a terrible list. Unless this is a list for solo play where rogue cannot really sneak attack.

Knife Master Rogue is pretty fuckin' beastly in this game due to how flanking/sneak attacks work. Don't even need to buff them up, stand them next to your meat shield and watch things die.

ANYONE can sneak attack if you dip them in one level of Alchemist or in Rogue. You not need full progression or even half progression in Rogue to do that, only few levels. Anyway it was just my opinion, I didn't claimed it absolute.

Disagree on prestige classes. See example of my DD

Looks impressive, but in my taste it's to complicated for game where 20 levels and you would shine only in last half. But it's only my opinion ofc.

Fey, magical beasts and beasts or ?

I was talking about types in game: it's magical beasts, undead, fey. As much, as I remember you can take 2xmagical beasts, 2xfey, undead during whole game. Maybe I was wrong for taking Undead before Dunsward, but it saved my ass once or twice.