Human protagonist

[Tweed]

Human beings have this tendency of writing what they know, to create something truly alien that isn't simply absurdity for absurdity's sake is a difficult thing. A lot of human beings are also terrible liars in the fact that they claim to want something different, but cling to what is familiar. Why take all the effort to come up with something new, explain biology, culture, etc and then transfer that into actual game mechanics when it's so much easier to make blue-skinned aliens with big tits and call it a day? It sounds like an awful lot of work for a writer to undertake for a normie who isn't going to grasp it anyway.

 

[laclongquan]

Humans, including gamers, are pretty xenophobic.

Thus playing as humans is always more attractive to human gamers, than playing as some alien races.

Please keep this simple fact in mind when developing games. As this is a matter of approriate product for approriate customers.

 

[Sjukob]

For merely cultural differences you don't need nonhuman protagonist.
In the end your culture is going to be at some points rooted in your physical and biological characteristics, and that applies to human cultures as well - even though their diversity is a testament to how broad the spectrum can be for a single sapient species.
If you try to contrive something completely abstracted from that, you're just going to end up with a bunch of nonsense.
And then, if you have your physical and biological differences it only pays off to tie them into gameplay somehow.

Alright, I should've said it better. Some non-standart cultural things applied to non standart races can make everything much more interesting, for example slav lizards, has anybody ever done something like this ? This is what I meant when I said "flavor" in original post. Of course you (as a developer) take things even farther and play on biological differences, but something like this is already pretty good on it's own.

What's with it?

Cheap junk that completely trashed the idea of transforming into a dragon and wasted any potential it had, boring and underwhelming game even if you forget about stuff with dragons, but somehow it gets people approval.

One of the interesting things is that this kind of already happens with the 4x genre- although it's not explicit, you're essentially playing some sort of immortal deity ruling over a culture and guiding it through broad strokes in a way no human ever could. Well, I suppose it's explicit in Eador. But generally speaking.

I think the only game I've played that did a good job of conveying an alien sense of abilities and priorities is Endgame: Singularity where you play as a sort of nascent AI in the wild, trying to evade detection and accrue resources to survive. It's a very simple game, but I think it's a good example of being interesting in a way a human protagonist never could.

The argument about 4x games sounds far fetched to me, but I agree with you on Endgame:Singularity.

There's a bunch of games where you play a robot or something machine-like and very many where you're blindly following orders

Actually, to my memory a lot of the times developers want to show some kind of robot they make it very humanized. I can barely remember anything where you control a real machine that doesn't try to be adorable.

A lot of human beings are also terrible liars in the fact that they claim to want something different, but cling to what is familiar

I am barely familiar with such behaviour, I have no clue how it affects things.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

slav lizards, has anybody ever done something like this ?

"squatting under the sun - we're lizards in adidas - cold blood and hardbass".
sounds promising.

 

[Tweed]

"squatting under the sun - we're lizards in adidas - cold blood and hardbass".
sounds promising.

Would certainly be better than making another generic Aztec civilization.

 

[DraQ]

Human beings have this tendency of writing what they know, to create something truly alien that isn't simply absurdity for absurdity's sake is a difficult thing. A lot of human beings are also terrible liars in the fact that they claim to want something different, but cling to what is familiar. Why take all the effort to come up with something new, explain biology, culture, etc and then transfer that into actual game mechanics when it's so much easier to make blue-skinned aliens with big tits and call it a day? It sounds like an awful lot of work for a writer to undertake for a normie who isn't going to grasp it anyway.

Fuck Bioware with a thousand blazing spears.

Alright, I should've said it better. Some non-standart cultural things applied to non standart races can make everything much more interesting

That's true, but it's still one, relatively cheap trick.

for example slav lizards, has anybody ever done something like this ?

For what it's worth Potatoese is sometimes described as seemingly a long train of "ssh"s, "tsh"s, and "tch"s to untrained ear.

Not sure if it counts.

Spoiler

This is what I meant when I said "flavor" in original post. Of course you (as a developer) take things even farther and play on biological differences, but something like this is already pretty good on it's own.

Having actual physical and bilogical differences be more than just informed traits is absolutely crucial for having your nonhuman protagonists matter.

Cheap junk that completely trashed the idea of transforming into a dragon and wasted any potential it had, boring and underwhelming game even if you forget about stuff with dragons, but somehow it gets people approval.

Even if you came because you wanted to be a dragon, you stayed for other stuff like actual humour, stellar music or atmospheric, imaginative environs. Plus, as lacklustre as it was (to put it gently), dragon combat was still a good thing to have in game at all and regular combat was at least serviceable.

 

[Sjukob]

Even if you came because you wanted to be a dragon, you stayed for other stuff like actual humour, stellar music or atmospheric, imaginative environs. Plus, as lacklustre as it was (to put it gently), dragon combat was still a good thing to have in game at all and regular combat was at least serviceable.

I didn't stay for anything, I uninstalled it in 10 minutes after getting the dragon powers. Everything in the game (except for Kirill's music) is bad/underwhelming.

 

[Nalenth]

Supposed other species are usually just poor representations of human races.

No, they are not. In the first place, are we talking about Tolkienian races or something more recent/less common?
The sapient species in fantasy are usually humanoid races with human-like traits.

Human beings have this tendency of writing what they know, to create something truly alien that isn't simply absurdity for absurdity's sake is a difficult thing. A lot of human beings are also terrible liars in the fact that they claim to want something different, but cling to what is familiar. Why take all the effort to come up with something new, explain biology, culture, etc and then transfer that into actual game mechanics when it's so much easier to make blue-skinned aliens with big tits and call it a day? It sounds like an awful lot of work for a writer to undertake for a normie who isn't going to grasp it anyway.

Humanoid or human-like aliens are only common in soft science fiction, especially in space operas. No serious hard science fiction writer will put them in their book/film/game/etc. without consideration.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Even if the racial differences were superficial, hell, even if they were entirely cultural, they'd still be interesting options. There's a difference between playing a moody, alcholic, and vulagar human, elf, or dwarf because of what it implies about them compared to the society they come from.

 

[SpoilVictor]

Most obvious reason it that non-human / human-like protagonist might scare off potential customers.

Second reason is that presenting something really different than human requires a lot of work. If we cast aside all pseudo-alien species (we are Klingons - space Spartans, we are Quarians - space jews etc.) we have to present complex, alien construct of species that act, think. live etc. in a very different way than humans. What comes in mind is loyalty mission from Ass Effect 2 (overall it is shit but there is something). Renegade dialog options about rewriting or destroying Geth "heretics" actually touch interesting questions and run along lines "our morals and ethics doesn't really apply to synthetic life". Another example would be Ass Effect 1 and conversation with Sovereign (before Biowaste went full retard on Reapers): Reapers are so much different and above organic races that what they do or what drives them is beyond our comprehension. Kinda Space Cthulhu stuff but still cool. You are ants, we are humans, don't waste time thinking about and don't waste mine talking to you - cold, uncaring menace. Unfortunately that are just tiny scraps.

My point is that kind of idea tread dangerously on the fringes of hard sci-fi, and that is very unlikely to happen 'cause a) rarely video game writers have intellectual capability to think and write on such high level; b) video gamers rarely have intellect to comprehend it, yet alone to enjoy it.

So with genres that are supposed to use actual writing out of the way, what remains are another 2 possibilities:
1) games that use "alien" purely as a mechanic: AvP, Natural Selection, Evolve etc. But looking how "successful" those game are it is easy to assume that players aren't too fond of asymmetrical gameplay,
2) games that use "alien" but it is utterly irrelevant and meaningless like Plants vs. Zombies etc.


Would I like to explore "alien" perspectives? Yes, I would. Will we get more games that let us do it? No, we won't. Just another little disappointment in video games.

 

[Tweed]

Humanoid or human-like aliens are only common in soft science fiction, especially in space operas. No serious hard science fiction writer will put them in their book/film/game/etc. without consideration.

That's all well and true in terms of science fiction books, but in the case of an RPG or really any game where you take on the specific role of an alien though most developers will reach for a humanoid alien with a culture that is strikingly similar to something we already know and most of it ends up being soft sci-fi. It's much easier to use "alien" aliens when you're merely the faceless representative of an entire species like a 4x title since things like culture often come down to bonuses and maluses towards one stat or another.

Of course most developers are also writing/designing for accessibility and money so hard sci-fi and alien aliens will go right out the window in favor of things that bring more money. You'd need a dedicated weirdo to make an rpg for weirdos where making lots of money isn't the primary goal.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What qualifies as "Human"?

Is Geralt considered human despite being biologically modified and capable of extreme feats that far surpass a regular human? By the nature of his mutations is he not also part monster?

 

[Neanderthal]

What qualifies as "Human"

The ability to produce offspring defines a species so technically Geralt being sterile means he is no longer human, like a space marine i'd judge him as a transhuman mutant.

 

[laclongquan]

What qualifies as "Human"?

Is Geralt considered human despite being biologically modified and capable of extreme feats that far surpass a regular human? By the nature of his mutations is he not also part monster?

COnsidering he still fuck like rabbit.
Considering the way he treat Ciri.
Considering the friends he's got.
Yeah, he's still human.

 

[Oracsbox]

I thought virtually every game allowed you to play as a Non-Human Protagonist it's called "choose option Female"

Spoiler