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Grimoire Class Discussion/Beginner's Tips

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
Where is exactly Patron Argent...
How far it is in-game and in what area? Anyone found it already?
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
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Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
How exactly to multi-class? Got level 3 on character, got stats but cant multiclass...
I was able to change a character's profession once they got to level 4.

Yes, figured it. But its useless. Exp is same to get to next level as if you didnt change level at all.

So no clue why multi-class would be useful unless you go for elite professions.

Seems like Cleve really nerfed it. Good thing IMO.

Now I just need to get a good picture of how relevant class is for equipment. Not just caster vs. fighter, but also e.g. Warrior vs. Berserker. If there's no substantial difference in equipment multiclassing does become an interesting but entirely optional aside.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Where is exactly Patron Argent...
How far it is in-game and in what area? Anyone found it already?

My question is where the mini-games area is. There is a window with people playing cards behind it in the Carnival Bazaar, but I cannot find an entrance.

The Cleve gym gives 10000 EXP for 50000 gold by the way - provided you have two characters strong enough to lift all the weights.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
IT CANNOT BE GREAT WITHOUT MINIGAMES!

To answer your question I have no idea.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
How exactly to multi-class? Got level 3 on character, got stats but cant multiclass...
I was able to change a character's profession once they got to level 4.

Yes, figured it. But its useless. Exp is same to get to next level as if you didnt change level at all.

So no clue why multi-class would be useful unless you go for elite professions.

I don't want to comment too much, in case mechanics have changed in V2 and are different from the last pre-V2 release. But in general, you want to change professions right before you get the experience to advance to the next level. This might mean reloading a fight that pushed you over the XP required amount, then change professions, and fight the next battle again to level up. This way, you will advance in the new class.

The value in multi-classing is that Hit Points, Magic, Vitality, and skill points do not get reset. So a character might have 100 hp after ten levels. You change classes so that you can add another 100 hp on top of that, for example. Same with magic and vitality levels, and to keep improving skills that can only be increased when you level. It makes a difference in the late game.

Most importantly, the pace of leveling is going to slow down a lot, even by seven or eight. So the reason to multi-class is to enable your characters to continue to advance, via the new profession, which is a rewarding experience in itself.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
How exactly to multi-class? Got level 3 on character, got stats but cant multiclass...
I was able to change a character's profession once they got to level 4.

Yes, figured it. But its useless. Exp is same to get to next level as if you didnt change level at all.

So no clue why multi-class would be useful unless you go for elite professions.

I don't want to comment too much, in case mechanics have changed in V2 and are different from the last pre-V2 release. But in general, you want to change professions right before you get the experience to advance to the next level. This might mean reloading a fight that pushed you over the XP required amount, then change professions, and fight the next battle again to level up. This way, you will advance in the new class.

The value in multi-classing is that Hit Points, Magic, Vitality, and skill points do not get reset. So a character might have 100 hp after ten levels. You change classes so that you can add another 100 hp on top of that, for example. Same with magic and vitality levels, and to keep improving skills that can only be increased when you level. It makes a difference in the late game.

Most importantly, the pace of leveling is going to slow down a lot, even by seven or eight. So the reason to multi-class is to enable your characters to continue to advance, via the new profession, which is a rewarding experience in itself.

With multiclassing you will get 4 levels in main class and 6 levels in secondary class. Does not differ from 10 levels in one main class if you dont multi-class.

XP progress does not change with mutli-class.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
How exactly to multi-class? Got level 3 on character, got stats but cant multiclass...
I was able to change a character's profession once they got to level 4.

Yes, figured it. But its useless. Exp is same to get to next level as if you didnt change level at all.

So no clue why multi-class would be useful unless you go for elite professions.

I don't want to comment too much, in case mechanics have changed in V2 and are different from the last pre-V2 release. But in general, you want to change professions right before you get the experience to advance to the next level. This might mean reloading a fight that pushed you over the XP required amount, then change professions, and fight the next battle again to level up. This way, you will advance in the new class.

The value in multi-classing is that Hit Points, Magic, Vitality, and skill points do not get reset. So a character might have 100 hp after ten levels. You change classes so that you can add another 100 hp on top of that, for example. Same with magic and vitality levels, and to keep improving skills that can only be increased when you level. It makes a difference in the late game.

Most importantly, the pace of leveling is going to slow down a lot, even by seven or eight. So the reason to multi-class is to enable your characters to continue to advance, via the new profession, which is a rewarding experience in itself.

With multiclassing you will get 4 levels in main class and 6 levels in secondary class. Does not differ from 10 levels in one main class if you dont multi-class.

XP progress does not change with mutli-class.

But then you can multi to a third class! Also keep in mind, when you start over in a new class later in the game, you are likely fighting monsters worth more XP. So those secondary professions will gain their first few levels much quicker.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
The value in multi-classing is that Hit Points, Magic, Vitality, and skill points do not get reset. So a character might have 100 hp after ten levels. You change classes so that you can add another 100 hp on top of that, for example. Same with magic and vitality levels, and to keep improving skills that can only be increased when you level. It makes a difference in the late game.

I don't get it. So progressing from Level 4 to 5 requires the same amount of XP as changing class and progressing to the next (lower) level in the new class, correct?

Then the amount of HP etc. you get is the same whether you multi-class or not. The only advantage of multi-class is getting access to new abilities and spells, eg. Jester, Pirate and Assassin stuff.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
How exactly to multi-class? Got level 3 on character, got stats but cant multiclass...
I was able to change a character's profession once they got to level 4.

Yes, figured it. But its useless. Exp is same to get to next level as if you didnt change level at all.

So no clue why multi-class would be useful unless you go for elite professions.

I don't want to comment too much, in case mechanics have changed in V2 and are different from the last pre-V2 release. But in general, you want to change professions right before you get the experience to advance to the next level. This might mean reloading a fight that pushed you over the XP required amount, then change professions, and fight the next battle again to level up. This way, you will advance in the new class.

The value in multi-classing is that Hit Points, Magic, Vitality, and skill points do not get reset. So a character might have 100 hp after ten levels. You change classes so that you can add another 100 hp on top of that, for example. Same with magic and vitality levels, and to keep improving skills that can only be increased when you level. It makes a difference in the late game.

Most importantly, the pace of leveling is going to slow down a lot, even by seven or eight. So the reason to multi-class is to enable your characters to continue to advance, via the new profession, which is a rewarding experience in itself.

With multiclassing you will get 4 levels in main class and 6 levels in secondary class. Does not differ from 10 levels in one main class if you dont multi-class.

XP progress does not change with mutli-class.

But then you can multi to a third class! Also keep in mind, when you start over in a new class later in the game, you are likely fighting monsters worth more XP. So those secondary professions will gain their first few levels much quicker.

he's right. The way it works in V2, a character switching from level 4 in one class to another advanced as if he was level 4 in that other class, but as far as benefits go, he's a level 1 character in that other class.

Switch from ranger to wizard on level 4 and you're a level 1 wizard who needs as much experience to even get any level 1 spells as if he had to go from level 4 to level 5 wizard.

And ranger --> wizard is actually one of the few combos that make sense, most just gimp your build. Very different from wild Bradley multiclassing shenanigans.

edit: ok not sure anymore about level 1 spells, you may get those instantly on class change. I dimly remember ranger --> clerics idling like a sitting duck waiting for spells
 
Last edited:

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
I think the difference I have in mind is, not necessarily making a switch early (4th or even 5th level) but trying to squeeze as much out of class and exhaust advancement until it slows to a snail's pace. And then start over in a new profession. Specifically for spell casters to get more powerful spells at higher levels before changing.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
If XP remains the same per level (like D&D multi-classing), then the only reason to multiclass would be to gain the skills/spells of another class. And you would always want to multiclass the moment you qualify, since you permanently lose stats. Right?
 
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Sacred82

Self-Ejected
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Joined
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Messages
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I think the difference I have in mind is, not necessarily making a switch early (4th or even 5th level) but trying to squeeze as much out of class and exhaust advancement until it slows to a snail's pace. And then start over in a new profession. Specifically for spell casters to get more powerful spells at higher levels before changing.

like I said, your wizard changing class to warrior at level 16 will advance like a warrior going from 16 to 17. If you get 3 more levels in that class that may net you a few more HP but you're going to lose some high level spell access. Also your fighting skills will either be crap - a wizard couldn't have put points into sword or shield - or you will get a few more martial skill points to put into crap weapons like daggers and slings.

As I see it, right now, a character should multiclass early or not at all. Not necessarily at 4, maybe as late as 8, but you will need quite some levels to catch up in your new class to do anything useful.

edit: oh yeah not even mentioning your high level character losing ALL of his bonus attribute points and being reset to the minimum stats of a level 1 character in his new class, see above
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Actually, there might be a reason to multiclass, because XP required for next level differs A LOT between the classes. My Sage got to Level 3 with the same experience that an Assassin was still at Level 1. So the question is if the XP leveling requirements from the original class are kept when you multi-class. Then you could level up with a Jester, Pirate or Assassin much faster than when starting out with one.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
I think the difference I have in mind is, not necessarily making a switch early (4th or even 5th level) but trying to squeeze as much out of class and exhaust advancement until it slows to a snail's pace. And then start over in a new profession. Specifically for spell casters to get more powerful spells at higher levels before changing.

like I said, your wizard changing class to warrior at level 16 will advance like a warrior going from 16 to 17.

This is the part I missed. It was not like this in pre-V2.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Actually, there might be a reason to multiclass, because XP required for next level differs A LOT between the classes. My Sage got to Level 3 with the same experience that an Assassin was still at Level 1. So the question is if the XP leveling requirements from the original class are kept when you multi-class. Then you could level up with a Jester, Pirate or Assassin much faster than when starting out with one.
That’s an interesting idea. Let me test this.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
Actually, there might be a reason to multiclass, because XP required for next level differs A LOT between the classes. My Sage got to Level 3 with the same experience that an Assassin was still at Level 1. So the question is if the XP leveling requirements from the original class are kept when you multi-class. Then you could level up with a Jester, Pirate or Assassin much faster than when starting out with one.

I think you use the level requirements of the new class. Otherwise you could start as thief and switch to necro at 4 for an ultra fast leveling necro and similar shit.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
That's pure decline, going from a wiz7 multi-classing system to a NWN/Pathfinder system.

Also, i hope the gym thing Lady Error is talking about is a joke :

The Cleve gym gives 10000 EXP for 50000 gold by the way - provided you have two characters strong enough to lift all the weights.

Otherwise, words fail me to describe what i would feel toward the game.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Actually, there might be a reason to multiclass, because XP required for next level differs A LOT between the classes. My Sage got to Level 3 with the same experience that an Assassin was still at Level 1. So the question is if the XP leveling requirements from the original class are kept when you multi-class. Then you could level up with a Jester, Pirate or Assassin much faster than when starting out with one.

I think you use the level requirements of the new class. Otherwise you could start as thief and switch to necro at 4 for an ultra fast leveling necro and similar shit.

Are you sure it doesn't work that way? This is Grimoire, not Pillars.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree

Why not ?

If any other game pulled shit like this, it'd be flamed to death because of anachronism, lack of immersion and whatever else you can think of but i'm sure the same guys whom condemn that kind of shit will find Armoire excuses.

Not that i was expecting much of the V2 but the more i read about it the less i want to play it.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
It has a frigging interdimensional flying baby and other crazy shit, but a magical gym is the deal-breaker for you?
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
You must have missed the part that Might & Magic was a big influence on Grimoire as well, not just Wizardry.

And someone with a Dark Savant avatar who refuses to play Grimoire (the only game in 25 years that comes close to Wizardry 7), that person is insane in my book.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
I think the difference I have in mind is, not necessarily making a switch early (4th or even 5th level) but trying to squeeze as much out of class and exhaust advancement until it slows to a snail's pace. And then start over in a new profession. Specifically for spell casters to get more powerful spells at higher levels before changing.

Re-read posts above please.
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
Has the crafting system been added? Is the metalsmith useful now?
 

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