That's one sad turk right there.
Let's listen to some Livaneli and ponder the mistakes of the XXth century together, friend
AwesomeButton Could you provide us peasants a screenshot my good sir ? I haven't reached high level yet.
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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!
- Thread starter TT1
- Start date
Let's listen to some Livaneli and ponder the mistakes of the XXth century together, friend
AwesomeButton Could you provide us peasants a screenshot my good sir ? I haven't reached high level yet.
2house2fly
Magister
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2013
- Messages
- 1,877
I don't see it winning any awards, but it's fair enough
Have you decided on a class? I assume you don't want frosty beard and armor with fur for Deadfire, but do you want it to be particularly pirate-y looking?
Immortal
Arcane
Jibe, Hold Position, Fire, Jibe, Hold Position, Fire, Jibe, Hold Position, Fire, Jibe, Hold Position, Fire
Gripping the edge of my seat..
"Narrative designer":
"As you make your way along the road, you notice the light dimming, as if a shadow has fallen over you."
Funnym I always thought that the same light will actually look brighter as your surroundings get darker.
"Narrative designer":
"You glance around, unsure of where it's coming from. The air feels thick, pregnant with unseen energy."
The air does not get "pregnant", it may feel "charged with unseen eneregy", it may feel "galvanized by an invisible force", but not "preganant with unseen energy". You are thick.
"As you make your way along the road, you notice the light dimming, as if a shadow has fallen over you."
Funnym I always thought that the same light will actually look brighter as your surroundings get darker.
"Narrative designer":
"You glance around, unsure of where it's coming from. The air feels thick, pregnant with unseen energy."
The air does not get "pregnant", it may feel "charged with unseen eneregy", it may feel "galvanized by an invisible force", but not "preganant with unseen energy". You are thick.
I see they restrained themselves from drawing a blazing sword for Pallegina this time. 
Hmmm these tentacles who obviously come from behind us are up to no good I say...
If the base game loading screen is any indication, Maia is dead btw
Hmmm these tentacles who obviously come from behind us are up to no good I say...
If the base game loading screen is any indication, Maia is dead btw
But they may yet be helpful after we've all overdosed on Potions of Constipation.I see they restrained themselves from drawing a blazing sword for Pallegina this time.
Hmmm these tentacles who obviously come from behind us are up to no good I say...
Ahahahah
They're made out of hardtacks mixed with gwufthrewn. Mandatory for very long dungeon dwelling.
They're made out of hardtacks mixed with gwufthrewn. Mandatory for very long dungeon dwelling.
jf8350143
Liturgist
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
- Messages
- 1,282
The starting of FS is way more interesting comparing to the other two DLC, the moment you get into the dungeon it feels very intriguing.
Maybe it's because i'm a sucker for going down a seemingly endless pit and discovering shit, but still.
Maybe it's because i'm a sucker for going down a seemingly endless pit and discovering shit, but still.
2house2fly
Magister
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2013
- Messages
- 1,877
preg·nant
/ˈpreɡnənt/
adjective
- 1.
(of a woman or female animal) having a child or young developing in the uterus.
"a pregnant woman"
synonyms: expecting a baby, expectant, carrying a child; More
- 2.
full of meaning; significant or suggestive.
"a pregnant pause"
synonyms: full of, filled with, charged with, heavy with, fraught with, replete with, rich in, abounding in More
Real heroes cannot afford the disgrace of shitting themselves when a monster has 16 Armor Rating. Therefore, potions of constipation are much sought after among adventurers.
FreeKaner
Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Stop nitpicking such minute word choices.
At least someone has nitpicked them, even if it hasn't been whoever wrote this.
The sum of those minute choices is what ultimately gives the writing its style.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 97,484
Alex Scokel on Vatnir: https://less-than-hash.tumblr.com/post/181666034130/the-principia-discordia
The Principia Discordia
The Pillars fan Discord reached out with the following:
Dear Alex,
During our conversations on character of Vatnir in Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire on Discord for this game we found ourselves having some questions. We allowed ourselves to create this list of general questions:
Does Vatnir actually likes anything? Would anything make him happy? Those questions became an issue especially after publication of “Seeker, Slayer, Survivor” and “Forgotten Sanctum”, where he constantly presents comments of displeasure, boredom, nihilism, resentment etc. and actually almost none of positive feelings (aside Watcher getting bitten by the machine in the FS). That also made some of us question, if he even likes to travel, as You have told on PAX panel. Would he be interested/willing to be presented to Giacolo and/or his procedure? Also what is his attitude towards other godlike (aside or including Tekehu)? Some of us question, why they care for such an ass?
My (spoiler-light-but-not-free) thoughts are behind the cut.
I can’t speak for people caring or not caring about Vatnir - honestly, I’m often surprised by the way people respond to him. Making a lovable character was never one of our goals with Vatnir. We wanted him to be complicated but understandable, amoral but sympathetic. Amoral because it was important to us that he be a priest who never judges the player’s actions (from a moralistic standpoint).
He makes a lot of jokes - albeit dark jokes - even when he’s complaining, and part of that is to keep him sympathetic. He’s not so negative and nihilistic that he can’t find humor in things.
(I particularly like his response to being petted by Fetid spray, or this, which can occur when the doors shut on the player party in Forgotten Sanctum, locking them out of the greater part of the structure near its entrance.)
I also think that he does try to be helpful and useful - it’s just that that helpfulness is filtered through the lens of his religion, his physical and emotional suffering, and his cowardice.
Since the DLCs are primarily about dungeon-delving and fighting, the player primarily experiences Vatnir in that context. Not at his best, I’d argue. If we’d been able to add more base game lines for him in places like, say, Neketaka, he might seem a bit less of a negative ass.
He’s much more relaxed, for example, during his exchange with Vela.
In the beautiful, magical world where we got to do a fully-fleshed personal quest for Vatnir beyond what’s in Beast of Winter, I’d have pitched focusing it on giving him a tour of the Deadfire, showing him little beautiful things and the like. Maybe take him to the Teotara Marvel. Something pleasant and meditative and life-affirming.
This would almost certainly not actually get into the game in that form. There’s a (not unreasonable) expectation of combat and treasure from quests, especially those related to major characters such as the companions.
Once actually in a fight, however, he quickly accepts it and pulls his weight. In general he’s quick to accept misfortune as a result of his fatalism - because of course terrible shit was going to happen. And when it does, you’ve got to push through it if you want to survive. If you’re looking for another positive aspect of the character, I’d say you can find it there - Vatnir is persistent and possessed of great fortitude.
As for the other two godlikes, I think he’s got far more in common with Pallegina than with Tekēhu. One could argue that he’s an anti-Tekēhu, a creature so brutalized by his life that he’s become rather callous.
He’s also significantly older than either of the other two. I don’t think we nail down his age, but he’s probably older (in terms of raw years) than any other companion save Ydwin. And all of that time was spent in inhospitable climes among the company of fundamentalist Rymrgand cultists. And as an Endings Godlike.
And regarding Giacolo? I think Vatnir’s probably well beyond the animancer‘s aid. I don’t recall whether or not we go into it, but I suspect that extracting a godlike’s chime late in life could have a pretty negative effect on them. Even so, it wouldn’t undo Vatnir’s godlike features - though perhaps some of the sores might close and the infections clear up.
Disclaimer: The above is not canon. There’s every possibility Obsidian’ll contradict that in some future game.
If he could be transformed from a godlike into a pale elf, however, I suspect he’d accept that in an instant. He’s in constant, significant pain, and I think he’d feel no compunction about taking almost any action to relieve himself of it.
That said, he has no particular feelings about godlikes as a “species.” He doesn’t consider them particularly blessed, nor does he find them frightening or off-putting. They’re simply a part of the world - inevitable.
I’ve joked that there’s a lot of myself in Vatnir, and while I don’t really think that’s true, I do think that there are aspects of him that are informed by my depression. Vatnir has this dark pain, this gaping emptiness within, both physical and spiritual, that gnaws at him. Every moment. Of every day. And that dulls the world to a person. It can reduce to them the world to its most unpleasant aspects.
There’s no small extent, I think, to which Vatnir’s fatalism and dourness is a coping mechanism that doesn’t fully reflect inner life. It’s clear from listening to him that he was miserable in the White that Wends and would never want to return, but at the same time, he defends it against Ydwin’s insults and is deeply unimpressed with her embrace of other cultures. He clearly has affection for his homeland and culture, buried under all that frost and pus.
Hope this was helpful?
<3 <3 <#
The Pillars fan Discord reached out with the following:
Dear Alex,
During our conversations on character of Vatnir in Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire on Discord for this game we found ourselves having some questions. We allowed ourselves to create this list of general questions:
Does Vatnir actually likes anything? Would anything make him happy? Those questions became an issue especially after publication of “Seeker, Slayer, Survivor” and “Forgotten Sanctum”, where he constantly presents comments of displeasure, boredom, nihilism, resentment etc. and actually almost none of positive feelings (aside Watcher getting bitten by the machine in the FS). That also made some of us question, if he even likes to travel, as You have told on PAX panel. Would he be interested/willing to be presented to Giacolo and/or his procedure? Also what is his attitude towards other godlike (aside or including Tekehu)? Some of us question, why they care for such an ass?
My (spoiler-light-but-not-free) thoughts are behind the cut.
I can’t speak for people caring or not caring about Vatnir - honestly, I’m often surprised by the way people respond to him. Making a lovable character was never one of our goals with Vatnir. We wanted him to be complicated but understandable, amoral but sympathetic. Amoral because it was important to us that he be a priest who never judges the player’s actions (from a moralistic standpoint).
He makes a lot of jokes - albeit dark jokes - even when he’s complaining, and part of that is to keep him sympathetic. He’s not so negative and nihilistic that he can’t find humor in things.
(I particularly like his response to being petted by Fetid spray, or this, which can occur when the doors shut on the player party in Forgotten Sanctum, locking them out of the greater part of the structure near its entrance.)
I also think that he does try to be helpful and useful - it’s just that that helpfulness is filtered through the lens of his religion, his physical and emotional suffering, and his cowardice.
- He’s not always complaining about delving into ancient ruins filled with monsters only because he doesn’t want to be there - he doesn’t think anyone else should be there, either. There’s plenty of adventures to be had that don’t involve giant tentacle monsters.
- He doesn’t express existential philosophies out of pure selfishness, but because he believes others should accept and internalize them towards the betterment of their spirit - he is a priest, after all!
Since the DLCs are primarily about dungeon-delving and fighting, the player primarily experiences Vatnir in that context. Not at his best, I’d argue. If we’d been able to add more base game lines for him in places like, say, Neketaka, he might seem a bit less of a negative ass.
He’s much more relaxed, for example, during his exchange with Vela.
In the beautiful, magical world where we got to do a fully-fleshed personal quest for Vatnir beyond what’s in Beast of Winter, I’d have pitched focusing it on giving him a tour of the Deadfire, showing him little beautiful things and the like. Maybe take him to the Teotara Marvel. Something pleasant and meditative and life-affirming.
This would almost certainly not actually get into the game in that form. There’s a (not unreasonable) expectation of combat and treasure from quests, especially those related to major characters such as the companions.
Once actually in a fight, however, he quickly accepts it and pulls his weight. In general he’s quick to accept misfortune as a result of his fatalism - because of course terrible shit was going to happen. And when it does, you’ve got to push through it if you want to survive. If you’re looking for another positive aspect of the character, I’d say you can find it there - Vatnir is persistent and possessed of great fortitude.
As for the other two godlikes, I think he’s got far more in common with Pallegina than with Tekēhu. One could argue that he’s an anti-Tekēhu, a creature so brutalized by his life that he’s become rather callous.
He’s also significantly older than either of the other two. I don’t think we nail down his age, but he’s probably older (in terms of raw years) than any other companion save Ydwin. And all of that time was spent in inhospitable climes among the company of fundamentalist Rymrgand cultists. And as an Endings Godlike.
And regarding Giacolo? I think Vatnir’s probably well beyond the animancer‘s aid. I don’t recall whether or not we go into it, but I suspect that extracting a godlike’s chime late in life could have a pretty negative effect on them. Even so, it wouldn’t undo Vatnir’s godlike features - though perhaps some of the sores might close and the infections clear up.
Disclaimer: The above is not canon. There’s every possibility Obsidian’ll contradict that in some future game.
If he could be transformed from a godlike into a pale elf, however, I suspect he’d accept that in an instant. He’s in constant, significant pain, and I think he’d feel no compunction about taking almost any action to relieve himself of it.
That said, he has no particular feelings about godlikes as a “species.” He doesn’t consider them particularly blessed, nor does he find them frightening or off-putting. They’re simply a part of the world - inevitable.
I’ve joked that there’s a lot of myself in Vatnir, and while I don’t really think that’s true, I do think that there are aspects of him that are informed by my depression. Vatnir has this dark pain, this gaping emptiness within, both physical and spiritual, that gnaws at him. Every moment. Of every day. And that dulls the world to a person. It can reduce to them the world to its most unpleasant aspects.
There’s no small extent, I think, to which Vatnir’s fatalism and dourness is a coping mechanism that doesn’t fully reflect inner life. It’s clear from listening to him that he was miserable in the White that Wends and would never want to return, but at the same time, he defends it against Ydwin’s insults and is deeply unimpressed with her embrace of other cultures. He clearly has affection for his homeland and culture, buried under all that frost and pus.
Hope this was helpful?
<3 <3 <#
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2016
- Messages
- 4,650
I only played the first hour or so of PoE2 (and I don't plan to continue until the TB mode comes out), but I agree with AwesomeButton. The pretentious, overwritten intro alone was enough to make me want to shut off the game. PoE1 was bad too, but never as bad as this.
Lacrymas
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2015
- Messages
- 18,012
Oooouh, I missed this little morsel. Apart from how this reasoning is pretty non-existent in the actual text, it also undermines itself in literally the very first conversation in the game, Berath makes it perfectly clear they don't need you and they can find someone else, then turns you into a cat or something if you refuse. Either a classic case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing or incompetence in developing and implementing the ideas they have.
It's hit and miss. You can find examples when a writer cared about the consistency with the rules of the world, but most of the time it feels like the writer neither knew nor cares to know about the rules of the world. "Not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe fantasy game with dragons and people with horns" as Pete Hines would put it.
2house2fly
Magister
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2013
- Messages
- 1,877
given that the post mentions "increasing" desperation and reliance, I would assume that at the start of the game their desperation and reliance on you would be at its lowest point
Quillon
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2016
- Messages
- 5,239
Berath says it would be a more difficult task if player should refuse them and game tried to show both "gods' increasing desperation and reliance on the Watcher" & "Eothas' willingness to listen to the Watcher's opinions". I don't get what the issue here is. Player is the most suitable for the job & gods are arrogant enough to try their luck on their own/through some other means, if refused by the player.
FreeKaner
Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
You can also literally call to Berath's face that they need you and that's why you are there.
Quillon
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2016
- Messages
- 5,239
as 2house2fly said desperation comes later; about at hosongo, then at ashen maw where they try to do it without/in spite of the player to no avail 
FreeKaner
Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Also berath wants the d.
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