Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Abu Antar]

 

[Black Angel]

And fact that Free Drones supported by Gorsky (he is idiot and asshole, btw), don't help situation.

How is he an idiot? I get that he's an asshole, I personally think how shitty of him just leaving his responsibility at SGS, but he's definitely not an idiot. Otherwise, he wouldn't be standing where he's right now.

- Situation when you tossed like a baseball ball around whole Underrail through thousands loading screens (thank God, loading screens is relatively short) only for confirmation your own actions, "yeah I contacted that guy, he told me that you did job, now go and tell him *something* and you can come back for reward". Once or twice I was annoyed by this.

Protip: disable auto-saves. Makes loading new zones MUCH, MUCH faster.

- Six and his dialogues. Dialogues look pointless, because 99% of them "I don't want to tell why you need to do this" and other 1% shitting on human race and main character. Sometimes he even makes main character look like chosen one, which oppose everything that was before. And most important you can't kill this fucker, because he have plot armor thicker than wall of bunker.

Have you joined the secret faction?

Mutagen puzzle is awesome and you're wrong.

I just think that this puzzle would be better if at least scanner was in same room or building with combinator, so you can recheck scanning results without running back and forth. I don't think any scientist in his right mind would build mutagen scanner room as far from mutagen laboratory as possible in conditions of underground facility, where every meter counts. If we speaking in terms of realism, ofc. Plus "Undo" option in combinator will save a lot of time too.

Ah, so you don't like the part where you have to go back and forth between the combinator and the scanner.

Should've write all the combination down a sheet of paper, will make you feel like

 

[Parabalus]

If you have to do the mutagen puzzle your build got cucked by Underrail's balance, just one-round the big baddie.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

How is he an idiot?

Common, you really think any person with half of brain would trade life in SGS on living in shitty conditions of Drop Zone? Even if his gang become major power, there no mention that this is improved life in Drop Zone, he and his gang still living in shithole, while oligarchs laugh at him in their mansions. Not to mention that in Omega station he almost got his group in raider ambush, he was just lucky that defense systems on second level was active and raiders had trouble to overcome them.

Have you joined the secret faction?

Yes and I had so much fun during their quest line, is this somehow influence Six behavior? Because I doubt it would.

Ah, so you don't like the part where you have to go back and forth between the combinator and the scanner.

Should've write all the combination down a sheet of paper

I did, but I still wandered back in forth, just to check on mistakes (and there was mistakes, I would say). And absence of "Undo" button didn't enhanced my experience too. Maybe someone like this puzzle, but for me mutagen puzzle wasn't the best part of game. Sorry.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

If you have to do the mutagen puzzle your build got cucked by Underrail's balance, just one-round the big baddie.

Wait, so doing mutagen puzzle wasn't strong requirement? Holy shit, I am stupid, because I thought that mutagen puzzle weakened monster, so you can actually go into his chamber. I thought otherwise my character will be scared like Old Jonas did and run away or even worse, become mind controlled, so I started to prepare compound. Holy shit, I feel so foolish right now, but still - even if you can avoid this puzzle it's isn't the best puzzle in gaming history imho.

 

[Goromorg]

How is he an idiot?

Common, you really think any person with half of brain would trade life in SGS on living in shitty conditions of Drop Zone? Even if his gang become major power, there no mention that this is improved life in Drop Zone, he and his gang still living in shithole, while oligarchs laugh at him in their mansions. Not to mention that in Omega station he almost got his group in raider ambush, he was just lucky that defense systems on second level was active and raiders had trouble to overcome them.

Gorsky is a type of person that won't sit in a safe place when there is some action going on. That's why he left SGS for Core City under a specious excuse.

Regarding Six

He's one of the last remnants of the advanced civilization. No wonder he's an elitist.

 

[Black Angel]

Common, you really think any person with half of brain would trade life in SGS on living in shitty conditions of Drop Zone? Even if his gang become major power, there no mention that this is improved life in Drop Zone, he and his gang still living in shithole, while oligarchs laugh at him in their mansions. Not to mention that in Omega station he almost got his group in raider ambush, he was just lucky that defense systems on second level was active and raiders had trouble to overcome them.

http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Endings#Core_City

Spoiler

At least for a while... Because for one oligarch, however, the game got personal.”“Not long after Edmund was killed, an unfortunate accident befell Simmons' son Miland as well... Knowing this was the work of Archibald's lackeys, the head of Coretech sent in a suicidal drone in attempt to end Knight's life.”“The attempt was unsuccessful and, despite Edstrom's attempts to broker peace between the them, the two organizations entered an open war, plunging Core City into chaos once again.”

• Sets Core City in chaos condition:
  • Archibald Knight is alive
  • Archibald Knight knows Miland killed Edmund

“One organization thrived in this chaos - the Silver Hand, formed from the Zone Rats gang and lead by Gorsky, who left SGS to pursue his ambition of taking control of Core City.”

• Complete Zone Rats questline
• Gorsky is alive
• Core City in chaos:
  • Archibald Knight is alive
  • Archibald Knight knows Miland killed Edmund

“With Sneaky and Dan at his side, and enjoying the general support of zoners and other poor inhabitants of the city, Gorsky managed to quickly establish the Silver Hand as a recognized contender in Core City, rivaling even the oligarchs themselves.”

• Sets Silver Hand becomes a major powercondition:
  • Complete Zone Rats questline
  • Gorsky is alive
  • Core City in chaos:
    • Archibald Knight is alive
    • Archibald Knight knows Miland killed Edmund
  • Sneaky is alive
  • Dan is alive
  • Dan joined Gorsky in Core City

“With Dan at his side, Gorsky managed to quickly establish the Silver Hand. Due to enjoying the general support of zoners and other poor inhabitants of the city, the organization managed to carve out a small piece of Core City for itself.”

• Complete Zone Rats questline
• Gorsky is alive
• Core City in chaos:
  • Archibald Knight is alive
  • Archibald Knight knows Miland killed Edmund
• Sneaky is dead
• Dan is alive
• Dan rejoined Gorsky in Core City

“With Sneaky at his side, Gorsky managed to quickly establish the Silver Hand. Due to enjoying the general support of zoners and other poor inhabitants of the city, the organization managed to carve out a small piece of Core City for itself.”

• Complete Zone Rats questline
• Gorsky is alive
• Core City in chaos:
  • Archibald Knight is alive
  • Archibald Knight knows Miland killed Edmund
• Dan is dead or didn't rejoin Gorsky
• Sneaky is alive

“Though met with fierce opposition from the established oligarchs, the organization still survived and, due to enjoying the general support of Zoners and other poor inhabitants of the city, managed to carve out a small piece of Core City for itself.”

• Complete Zone Rats questline
• Gorsky is alive
• Core City in chaos:
  • Archibald Knight is alive
  • Archibald Knight knows Miland killed Edmund
• Dan is dead or didn't rejoin Gorsky
• Sneaky is dead

“One organization sought to challenge the balance of power in the city, though - the Silver Hand, formed from the Zone Rats gang and lead by Gorsky, who left SGS to pursue his ambition of taking control of Core City.”“Though met with fierce opposition from the established oligarchs, the organization still survived and, due to enjoying the general support of zoners and other poor inhabitants of the city, managed to carve out a small piece of Core City for itself.”

• Complete Zone Rats questline
• Gorsky is alive
• Core City not in chaos

Kind of a bummer that the variations you can get from simply having certain individual(s) killed doesn't really change much, but there you go. Gorsky's influence in Core City is much bigger if you left the Oligarchs stirred up among themselves. You should also realize that being a councilor of SGS is not a joke, so calling him an idiot is baffling. Leaving that position is a dick move towards the responsibility he's supposed to have, but with the experience he had from being a councilor of SGS, establishing a foothold in Core City (especially with the help of Sneaky and Dan, AND Core City being in chaos even if this is thanks to you) is pretty smart move, I'd say.

As for Omega Station, Gorsky himself admitted he couldn't care less if there are raiders down the floors, all he wanted was to open that vault, and since he's still not fully trusted you at the time, he used the opportunity to see if you have what it takes to be a member of SGS. Kind of convenient excuse from the devs part, too, to have you partake in the quest, but it works.

Yes and I had so much fun during their quest line, is this somehow influence Six behavior? Because I doubt it would.

I wouldn't deny that the dialogue with Six down at DC is pretty shitty in how it was executed. However, having finished the game twice, the first one not joining the secret faction, while the second one I joined them, I'll say having encountered Six prior to DC actually gave a lot more context to his behavior. Especially if you encounter him in

Spoiler

the ruined section of Institute West Wing

. Once again, I still won't deny that the execution of Six at DC is shitty, but meeting him prior to that give a lot more context for me.

 

[Wunderbar]

Just got to the DC, and it is kinda both overwhelming and boring. I want to kick Tchort's ass, not explore a huge maze while being under constantly strengthening debuff.

This Six dude isn't helpful too.

 

[Black Angel]

This Six dude isn't helpful too.

How is he not helpful? Ignoring all the obnoxious stuff he says, he actually give you a clear layout of the whole area, and even give the first hint to

Spoiler

mushroom thingy

you'll need later on.

And yeah, DC's kind of overwhelming and boring, particularly the part where you need to backtrack and forth just to flip the switch for some area so they're available for exploration.

 

[Wunderbar]

It would be funny if at the very end i will find out that my build isn't strong enough to beat Tchort.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Oh, I forgot to add in my review one point under Neutral/Weird category: No mods. I can understand some of reasons behind this, but still sad.
In my opinion mods help to keep game fresh not only for old veterans who played game over9000 times, but also for new players as well.
And game with mod support have more chances to leave a heritage that will be remembered not just years, but generations. Maybe i wrong, but such games need to live as long as possible so they can ignite a flame of inspiration in our Age of Decline and mods very helpful.

 

[epeli]

isn't the best puzzle in gaming history imho

Hold up. It might not be literally the best, but it's pretty damn close. Definitely one of the best puzzles ever in a story-driven video game, leaving puzzle games aside.

It's properly integrated into the game world unlike some other puzzles you see in games (solve this sudoku to hack shit because that makes sense right?) It's a good puzzle in the sense that it's challenging without requiring any specific knowledge/education, only the simple combination rules and logical thinking - a smart kid can solve it if you explain the rules. And the technical implementation is unequalled. Without too much sperging about pointless and trivial details, I'll just say it's quite unique rather than some stock puzzle. The unlimited number of potential combinations makes it nigh impossible to bruteforce. It's generally resistant to low-effort programmatic solving attempts, despite being comparatively easy and fun to reason about as a human. That's good design to me. I also like how you have the solution (Exitus-1) to begin with, you just have to find a way to replicate it. Not even the way, but a way - each puzzle has multiple, usually unlimited, solutions. That entirely eliminates the possibility of cheating by digging up the solution from game data. Honestly, I believe Styg will never outdo the mutagen puzzle. Its design has some accidental strokes of genius (as well as accidental flaws.)

That said, the whole "write a bunch of shit down and stop playing to solve it outside the game" aspect of Underrail's puzzles isn't ideal IMHO. But I reckon that's how it has to be if you want actual thought-provoking puzzles in games that aren't devoted to puzzle mechanics. Expedition will have more of that... btw, did you guys notice that the latest experimental version lets you Ctrl+C dialog text?

 

[Sykar]

How is he an idiot?

Common, you really think any person with half of brain would trade life in SGS on living in shitty conditions of Drop Zone? Even if his gang become major power, there no mention that this is improved life in Drop Zone, he and his gang still living in shithole, while oligarchs laugh at him in their mansions. Not to mention that in Omega station he almost got his group in raider ambush, he was just lucky that defense systems on second level was active and raiders had trouble to overcome them.

Have you joined the secret faction?

Yes and I had so much fun during their quest line, is this somehow influence Six behavior? Because I doubt it would.

Ah, so you don't like the part where you have to go back and forth between the combinator and the scanner.

Should've write all the combination down a sheet of paper

I did, but I still wandered back in forth, just to check on mistakes (and there was mistakes, I would say). And absence of "Undo" button didn't enhanced my experience too. Maybe someone like this puzzle, but for me mutagen puzzle wasn't the best part of game. Sorry.

Him being in Core City is for the sole reason of protecting SGS. The end goal is to kick the Protectorate to the curb which he considers a major if not THE major threat in south Underrail as should have been evident when you call in the council meeting to deal with the Junkyard problem. Aligning with the oligarchs is not an option so who is left in Core City? "Freelancers" and as it so happens he had some ties with some people in Core city and establishes a gang. The main failing here is not Gorsky or his merry band but that the quest line is incomplete for whatever reason.
That you miss this rather obvious nuance means that you either were not paying attention to Gorksy, or you did not really understand anything about what is going on with SGS.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Hold up. It might not be literally the best, but it's pretty damn close. Definitely one of the best puzzles ever in a story-driven video game, leaving puzzle games aside.

It's properly integrated into the game world unlike some other puzzles you see in games (solve this sudoku to hack shit because that makes sense right?) It's a good puzzle in the sense that it's challenging without requiring any specific knowledge/education, only the simple combination rules and logical thinking - a smart kid can solve it if you explain the rules. And the technical implementation is unequalled. Without too much sperging about pointless and trivial details, I'll just say it's quite unique rather than some stock puzzle. The unlimited number of potential combinations makes it nigh impossible to bruteforce. It's generally resistant to low-effort programmatic solving attempts, despite being comparatively easy and fun to reason about as a human. That's good design to me. I also like how you have the solution (Exitus-1) to begin with, you just have to find a way to replicate it. Not even the way, but a way - each puzzle has multiple, usually unlimited, solutions. That entirely eliminates the possibility of cheating by digging up the solution from game data. Honestly, I believe Styg will never outdo the mutagen puzzle. Its design has some accidental strokes of genius (as well as accidental flaws.)

That said, the whole "write a bunch of shit down and stop playing to solve it outside the game" aspect of Underrail's puzzles isn't ideal IMHO. But I reckon that's how it has to be if you want actual thought-provoking puzzles in games that aren't devoted to puzzle mechanics. Expedition will have more of that... btw, did you guys notice that the latest experimental version lets you Ctrl+C dialog text?

As I said, I didn't put my opinion on pedestal and claimed that my opinion is absolute. It's good that there people who liked this puzzle, but I didn't liked it, sorry. And I don't want that puzzle removed, especially after knowing that this puzzle need mostly for weak builds and not strong requirement.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Him being in Core City is for the sole reason of protecting SGS. The end goal is to kick the Protectorate to the curb which he considers a major if not THE major threat in south Underrail as should have been evident when you call in the council meeting to deal with the Junkyard problem. Aligning with the oligarchs is not an option so who is left in Core City? "Freelancers" and as it so happens he had some ties with some people in Core city and establishes a gang. The main failing here is not Gorsky or his merry band but that the quest line is incomplete for whatever reason.
That you miss this rather obvious nuance means that you either were not paying attention to Gorksy, or you did not really understand anything about what is going on with SGS.

Or it is not obvious nuance and just your assumptions about Gorsky's intention and state of SGS? I mean, one of ending slides clearly tell that he left SGS for his ambitions, nothing more. And how exactly forming a gang in Core City (ruled by oligarchs who don't want share profits with Protectorate, btw) and starting a chaos in relatively stable neutral station will protect SGS? More like Protectorate will take city under control during time when oligarchs and Gorsky's bandits will wage war and SGS will be left alone against powerful Protectorate.

 

[Wunderbar]

Finished Arke power station.
Get a keycard, backtrack, get another keycard, backtrack, get yet another keycard, backtrack. What devs were thinking?

 

[Black Angel]

Or it is not obvious nuance and just your assumptions about Gorsky's intention and state of SGS? I mean, one of ending slides clearly tell that he left SGS for his ambitions, nothing more. And how exactly forming a gang in Core City (ruled by oligarchs who don't want share profits with Protectorate, btw) and starting a chaos in relatively stable neutral station will protect SGS? More like Protectorate will take city under control during time when oligarchs and Gorsky's bandits will wage war and SGS will be left alone against powerful Protectorate.

I'd say the ending slides came out that way simply because Gorsky decided to go that way after the words came out that Tanner is gone, and that Tanner is a questionable persona. Have Tanner stayed, and is actually legit, Gorsky might've done things differently in the ending slides. Still, I pretty much agree with Sykar. It's definitely an incomplete storyline, because unless you fuck up Core City by stirring up the Oligarchs, it definitely doesn't make sense how the support of the Zoners can change anything.

Anyway, in your playthrough you might left the Protectorate alone that they get to take Core City, or even help them influence Junkyard. But, luckily, in others playthrough people can simply help Black Eels by bringing SGS into the gang-war (or don't let the gang-war happen at all), and also help the Free Drones to take control of SRO (and the decision of helping Free Drones comes with preventing the Protectorate from taking over Rail Crossing). Not to mention you can also decide to stay in SGS as a pro-Free Drones/anti-Protectorate councillor, so that can help the Oligarchs vs. Gorsky to happen 'peacefully

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

I'd say the ending slides came out that way simply because Gorsky decided to go that way after the words came out that Tanner is gone, and that Tanner is a questionable persona. Have Tanner stayed, and is actually legit, Gorsky might've done things differently in the ending slides. Still, I pretty much agree with Sykar. It's definitely an incomplete storyline, because unless you fuck up Core City by stirring up the Oligarchs, it definitely doesn't make sense how the support of the Zoners can change anything.

Anyway, in your playthrough you might left the Protectorate alone that they get to take Core City, or even help them influence Junkyard. But, luckily, in others playthrough people can simply help Black Eels by bringing SGS into the gang-war (or don't let the gang-war happen at all), and also help the Free Drones to take control of SRO (and the decision of helping Free Drones comes with preventing the Protectorate from taking over Rail Crossing). Not to mention you can also decide to stay in SGS as a pro-Free Drones/anti-Protectorate councillor, so that can help the Oligarchs vs. Gorsky to happen 'peacefully

All these "if Tanner stayed" and etc., just assumptions based on another assumption that Tanner wanted to expand SGS influence in first place. Even without plot twist in the end of the game, Tanner stated before that he doesn't have grudge against protectorate and MAYBE even join Union on beneficial terms, one major obstacle was people who had a problems with Protectorate and Tanner was afraid to lose them.

 

[Sykar]

Him being in Core City is for the sole reason of protecting SGS. The end goal is to kick the Protectorate to the curb which he considers a major if not THE major threat in south Underrail as should have been evident when you call in the council meeting to deal with the Junkyard problem. Aligning with the oligarchs is not an option so who is left in Core City? "Freelancers" and as it so happens he had some ties with some people in Core city and establishes a gang. The main failing here is not Gorsky or his merry band but that the quest line is incomplete for whatever reason.
That you miss this rather obvious nuance means that you either were not paying attention to Gorksy, or you did not really understand anything about what is going on with SGS.

Or it is not obvious nuance and just your assumptions about Gorsky's intention and state of SGS? I mean, one of ending slides clearly tell that he left SGS for his ambitions, nothing more. And how exactly forming a gang in Core City (ruled by oligarchs who don't want share profits with Protectorate, btw) and starting a chaos in relatively stable neutral station will protect SGS? More like Protectorate will take city under control during time when oligarchs and Gorsky's bandits will wage war and SGS will be left alone against powerful Protectorate.

No not really. If you have actually played through Junkyard completely you would know just how much Gorsky loathes the Protectorate no ifs or buts. The only point which is speculative if his disdain for them is stronger than his loyalty to SGS. Sadly we never get an answer because the story is cut short, simple as that.
As to the rest, no one said that Gorsky founding his own gang was a particular smart move, I merely explained the obvious reasoning behind it.

 

[Tygrende]

The only point which is speculative if his disdain for them is stronger than his loyalty to SGS.

Of course it is. If you allied with Protectorate and stayed at SGS as a councilor, Gorsky will "denounce you publicly and declare himself your enemy". Which, given your new position, is effectively the same as declaring SGS itself his enemy.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

No not really. If you have actually played through Junkyard completely you would know just how much Gorsky loathes the Protectorate no ifs or buts. The only point which is speculative if his disdain for them is stronger than his loyalty to SGS. Sadly we never get an answer because the story is cut short, simple as that.
As to the rest, no one said that Gorsky founding his own gang was a particular smart move, I merely explained the obvious reasoning behind it.

I didn't fucking denied that Gorsky hates Protectorate, I ACTUALLY tried both variants with Black Eels: help from SGS or Protectorate (just to see outcome in short time). I said (maybe in not obvious manner, but still) in comment that you quoted that Gorsky don't care about SGS protection, he cares only about his ambitions and hatred towards Protectorate. I know that this is hard to admit, but ending slides speak for itself.

 

[Sykar]

No not really. If you have actually played through Junkyard completely you would know just how much Gorsky loathes the Protectorate no ifs or buts. The only point which is speculative if his disdain for them is stronger than his loyalty to SGS. Sadly we never get an answer because the story is cut short, simple as that.
As to the rest, no one said that Gorsky founding his own gang was a particular smart move, I merely explained the obvious reasoning behind it.

I didn't fucking denied that Gorsky hates Protectorate, I ACTUALLY tried both variants with Black Eels: help from SGS or Protectorate (just to see outcome in short time). I said (maybe in not obvious manner, but still) in comment that you quoted that Gorsky don't care about SGS protection, he cares only about his ambitions and hatred towards Protectorate. I know that this is hard to admit, but ending slides speak for itself.

If he would not care at all he would neither be in the council nor stayed with SGS as long as he did. By putting 1+1 together it is evident that, from Gorsky's point of view, the best way of keeping SGS safe means taking down the Protectorate. SGS itself does not have the manpower to go on the offensive against an opponent like the Protectorate and there is also the problem that Vera and Hadrian are not nearly as convinced as he is that the Protectorate is really bad news.
Ergo the only logical conclusion is looking for an "outside personnel" and as it so happens he has ties to Core City which enables him to gather such a group to take the fight to them. What is missing in the game is the vital part after establishing his base. I was actually disappointed that there never came anything afterwards on my first playthrough. I was under the impression that at some point I should get word from a messenger asking me to help Gorsky to continue the operation but no, crickets instead. This is in fact one of the weak points in the game in my opinion.
I seriously could not care less about the ending slide. It is obvious that the story line was cut short. To make a geeky comparison, it would be a bit like George Lucas not making any more movies after Star Wars: A New Hope. The film can stand on its own but it is clear that the story was not yet finished evident by the fact that Vader and the Emperor, who are the main villains, are still alive and the Empire continues to have a strangle hold on the galaxy far far away.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

epeli
My begging plea for expedition alpha key is up at underrail forum thread http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3526.msg21549

Do consider me on your next round of alpha testing. (Or just release Expeditions already)

I am pretty sure I have some form of autism; so thats good for testing.

 

[Wunderbar]

Just finished it.

What i liked:
- Exploration, especially in the early segments when you don't have a lot of resources;
- Stealth. I played as mostly tanky assault rifle/sniper character and haven't really used stealth. But closer to the end i decided to invest a bit into it to get a Snipe feat, then tried cloaking device with black clothed vest - and my gameplay drastically changed. Definetely going to be a stealthy character on my second playthrough;
- Character creation and progression, great stuff;
- The best crafting in RPGs since Arcanum.

What i disliked:
- This is probably because i played as a a slow tank, but i disliked the seeminly random initiative. Sometimes I initiate the combat, kill the most dangerous enemy in the first turn and subsequently win the battle. But sometimes they start the battle, and rape me in the first turn.
- Navigating the Core city got old pretty fast. I wish merchants and important NPCs were closer to the elevator, lol. I also had issues with loading times, but it was solved by disabling autosaves.
- Deep Caverns. Badly paced mess with a lot of annoying backtracking and obnoxious enemy respawn. This stuff changed my impression from 10/10 to 8.
- No zoom-in for higher resolutions, had to play in 1280x720 to see things.

Now waiting for expansion, going to play it as stealthy psionic with a crossbow.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I think the DC got close to being really good. I'd just make the drive shaft and Mycokardia easier to get. I wouldn't even mess with how Arke Power Station works or anything like that. I'd just make the most obscure things easier to find cause at some point it ends up being obnoxious.