Resident Evil 2 Remake

[sullynathan]

There is absolute no depth of skill to the aiming in an over the shoulder system like RE4 or this RE2 Remake. This isn't Quake or something. It's just point and click (especially RE4 where the enemies kindly stop a few feet in front of you so you can leisurely shoot them, basically a rail shooter). So they eliminated the benefits of the fixed camera in favor of nothing.

I'm saying that the classic RE has the same lack of depth, the only major difference is that you had to deal with controls that weren't relative to the camera, so that throws a lot of people off.

Yes. My point is that auto-aiming was not to the detriment of the game in the original RE, it's not subtracting anything because that's how the game was designed in the first place. When talking about why the original RE games are great no one brings up the skill based gunplay (there was skill involved in dodging enemies and so on). However in taking away the fixed camera angles it should theoretically allow for more skill based gunplay, but this isn't the case, so they've eliminated a positive aspect, the fixed camera, and replaced it with nothing: a net negative.

Yeah, we have to disagree on this. The "dodging of zombies" in the older RE isn't more skillful than the shooting of zombies in the newer RE.

Who cares whether he used that specific video or not, and who cares if the creator of that specific video will buy the game, the inconsistency remains and his arguments are about the inconsistency of said game. You keep mentioning it as if it were a valid counter argument, which is not. The point is, as a design stand point, it robs agency from the player which stands out even more due to game design decision that other people in this thread already mentioned. Period. Admitting this doesn't make the game complete shit, it's just not going to be the second coming of Christ either or deserving of the amount of hype it is getting.

So you don't have an argument at all outside of certain people didn't want it? Who gives a shit about the hype here? Who here is expecting it to be the second coming of christ? The inconsistency of being unable to shoot windows in the demo or non-Mr. X enemies entering the save room with you? This is pedantic at best, and would only bother someone who is a giant immersion fag (many of you) that wants to complain about non-existent problems and ignore the other things the game does well.

 

[Big Wrangle]

Turns out Resident Evil isn't an immersive sim, who knew?

 

[agentorange]

The knife has since been promoted and pushed hard for Summerslam since around... I don't recall exactly, maybe REmake, but it has become useful. Very useful.

The survival knife in REmake (the one you have to equip) was no more useful than the one in RE1 - 3. The useful knife was the defense weapon one-use knife. The defense item system of REmake is a far superior solution for having a backup weapon than making the survival knife a powerful weapon in itself, which started with RE4. But yeah I agree with everything else you said.

 

[Mark Richard]

zombies react to being shot better than RE4

Is that before or after they bounce off the invisible walls?

If breaking glass is the hill you're willing to die on, then so be it

This is an EXAMPLE of environmental targeting. With an over the shoulder perspective comes a more advanced targeting system the game needs to take advantage of. I'm not saying that in this RE2 remake you should be able to shoot weapons out of the air, shoot ladders down, shoot explosive barrels, or shoot through windows (actually that last one would be nice) just like RE4. The RE2 demo needed to showcase its own environmental targeting that makes sense within the context of that game. Shoot a pipe to steam-cook a zombie, through holes in the wall, etc.

especially using a video where the creator came out with a positive impression

This isn't the 'gotcha' moment you seem to think it is.

from a demo that you didn't play (for whatever reason).

It's a 1-shot demo under a strict time limit. The idea is to leave players dazzled by the new visuals before they can get a peek under the hood. Doing some reconnaissance seems prudent so I don't blow my chance.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

maybe REmake, but it has become useful. Very useful. It will continue to be useful in this RE2 Remake and it shouldn't. The knife has not earned itself to being anything more than a gimmick weapon and a joke you give to a big block of tofu. First off, the knife is bullshit. Zombies don't care about being stabbed, every other monster is a monster and laughs it off, the only possible use it can have is cutting through tape which Leon can probably do with his own fingers if he really wanted to.

It was CV when it started, but that's because of the game has infinitely respawning enemies so the devs buffed the knife just incase you didn't notice that and wasted all your ammo. You could use the knife to a degree back in RE3 if you got good with the timed dodging mechanic, but the eagle pistol just wreaks nearly everything in that game. Remake's knife was shit. RE0's knife is shit at first glance pretty fucking useless, until you start stabbing their legs with billy. One of the characters in outbreak is very effective with a knife since he could do a rapid combo with it.

 

[Viata]

the fixed camera "tension" is in your head and promptly leaves once you have an understanding of the games mechanics

Damn, man, you come with any excuse to say the REmake 2 is good and anything people think about the original is wrong. You are the TemplarGR of RE series.
I can understand you liking REmake 2, but being a blind fan is quie annoying.

 

[Deflowerer]

Knife has always been great in classic RE games. Look at all the knife runs people do. It simply appears useless because none of the games are that strict with resource management that you'd have to resort to it. These days whenever I replay RE games I use the knife a lot.

 

[Viata]

I agree with Ash in that I prefer the original, particularly because of the art direction and soundtrack too, but feel like ReMake overall was as stellar of a remake as you could get, and it's a terrific game in its own right.

The really bad thing is how the PC version fucked up light in some place and made every background an static image. The Gamecube version is still the best version to play it.

 

[agentorange]

Knife has always been great in classic RE games. Look at all the knife runs people do.

Knife runs are done as a challenge. And they are impressive precisely because of how unoptimal the survival knife is. Whereas in RE4 the knife is a killing machine that doesn't even need to be manually equipped. I mean it's even the most efficient way to kill some bosses like Krauser.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

By the way, why does nobody develop a kind of spiritual successor to the original Resident Evils? With prerendered backgrounds and fixed cam angels? Wouldn't that be an untapped niche worth serving with a AA budget? Almost every discussion about RE2 Remake I've glanced over has a sizeable portion of people being disappointed by the decision for 3rd person.

As already cited...
Prototype Mansion: Used No Cover

 

[Multidirectional]

You can shoot through doors and windows in re4 ‘cause they don’t know how to build proper doors and windows in backwoods eastern bloc shit holes, in ‘murica our police stations have bullet proof doors and windows.

That's a fair point. I'll assume then that doors and windows that aren't inside of a police station will be breakable. Still doesn't explain how zombies can break windows so easily, their fists must be hitting harder than bullets, damn.. Scary stuff.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

By the way, why does nobody develop a kind of spiritual successor to the original Resident Evils? With prerendered backgrounds and fixed cam angels? Wouldn't that be an untapped niche worth serving with a AA budget? Almost every discussion about RE2 Remake I've glanced over has a sizeable portion of people being disappointed by the decision for 3rd person.

Pre-rendered backgrounds wouldn't really fly at all anymore in this day and age. I assume it's also kind of a hassle for iterative level design.

As for fixed camera angles, it just won't be popular. I like them, many people like them, but there's shittons of people who are incapable of processing space in that way and therefore complain about how they don't understand where they are or where they're going. Besides, people these days are less and less willing to put up with restrictions: if you can't rotate camera anyway you want and can't move fluidly, it's considered Bad Design.

Mind you, you have to put some thought into it how you do those angles, since 90s are chock full of games that went for the fixed angle approach and have some really terrible choices of angles. RE games are in fact one of the tightest and best in that regard.

There's definitely space for indies to do it, but not AA. First QA or design committee session and all that shit will be thrown the fuck out of the office windows, including the person who even suggested it.

Fixed camera does not automatically means prerendered backgrounds. I can be done with a flexibility (see for example Fatal Frame 1-3). Another example of mixed approach (fixed/free camera) is given by the Silent Hill series.

 

[Viata]

Knife has always been great in classic RE games. Look at all the knife runs people do.

Knife runs are done as a challenge. And they are impressive precisely because of how unoptimal the survival knife is. Whereas in RE4 the knife is a killing machine that doesn't even need to be manually equipped. I mean it's even the most efficient way to kill some bosses like Krauser.

Wasn't the knife also OP in CV? It's been a long time since I last played it, but I remember the knife being good enough to use.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Argentorange if you have problem with irony go to a good doctor instead of shitting your shoes.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

As already cited...
Prototype Mansion: Used No Cover

Yeah yeah that's nice, ya got a crack for it? I don't trust IGG with their cryptomining viruses and all that.

 

[agentorange]

Knife has always been great in classic RE games. Look at all the knife runs people do.

Knife runs are done as a challenge. And they are impressive precisely because of how unoptimal the survival knife is. Whereas in RE4 the knife is a killing machine that doesn't even need to be manually equipped. I mean it's even the most efficient way to kill some bosses like Krauser.

Wasn't the knife also OP in CV? It's been a long time since I last played it, but I remember the knife being good enough to use.

Yeah I never played CV since it looked like decline to me, but Edward the Mediocre's post explained why it's OP in that.

 

[Swigen]

You can shoot through doors and windows in re4 ‘cause they don’t know how to build proper doors and windows in backwoods eastern bloc shit holes, in ‘murica our police stations have bullet proof doors and windows.

That's a fair point. I'll assume then that doors and windows that aren't inside of a police station will be breakable. Still doesn't explain how zombies can break windows so easily, their fists must be hitting harder than bullets, damn.. Scary stuff.

In ‘murica we have “building codes”, you need to be able to get out of a building if it’s on fire so police stations have windows that only break from the inside. It’s not scary, it’s just good old fashioned ‘murican ingenuity.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

Speaking of building codes, getting past locked doors in RE games would be a breeze to unlock if they were set to US building codes. For example all commercial/business property must have lever door handles for the crippled and in the event of a fire. What this mean is you can manipulate the door from the otherside by sliding some hook under the door since a good chunk of those doors are unlocked from the inside.

 

[Multidirectional]

In ‘murica we have “building codes”, you need to be able to get out of a building if it’s on fire so police stations have windows that only break from the inside. It’s not scary, it’s just good old fashioned ‘murican ingenuity.

So that's why they are boarded up from inside in game. Because they are unbreakable from outside. Shit is clearing up alright.

 

[sullynathan]

Damn, man, you come with any excuse to say the REmake 2 is good and anything people think about the original is wrong. You are the TemplarGR of RE series.
I can understand you liking REmake 2, but being a blind fan is quie annoying.

don't compare me to that guy, it's not about REmake 2 being good but not ignoring that RE fixed camera was flawed

 

[Adon]

Knife has always been great in classic RE games. Look at all the knife runs people do.

Knife runs are done as a challenge. And they are impressive precisely because of how unoptimal the survival knife is. Whereas in RE4 the knife is a killing machine that doesn't even need to be manually equipped. I mean it's even the most efficient way to kill some bosses like Krauser.

Some? Try only. What other boss is it more efficient to kill with the knife only instead of an RPG outside of Krauser?

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Knife has always been great in classic RE games. Look at all the knife runs people do.

Knife runs are done as a challenge. And they are impressive precisely because of how unoptimal the survival knife is. Whereas in RE4 the knife is a killing machine that doesn't even need to be manually equipped. I mean it's even the most efficient way to kill some bosses like Krauser.

Some? Try only. What other boss is it more efficient to kill with the knife only instead of an RPG outside of Krauser?

Giants. They were somewhat easy to cheese with the knife if you stay close to their legs.



Outside that, is not that useful. It is for punishing laid enemies though.

 

[Swigen]

In ‘murica we have “building codes”, you need to be able to get out of a building if it’s on fire so police stations have windows that only break from the inside. It’s not scary, it’s just good old fashioned ‘murican ingenuity.

So that's why they are boarded up from inside in game. Because they are unbreakable from outside. Shit is clearing up alright.

Weeellll, as I recall all the windows boarded up were already smashed out. In ‘murica our policemen are notoriously trigger happy and the cops in the game were probably sooo excited to shoot someone they bashed the windows out themselves in order to better facilitate marksmanship only to panic afterwards and board the windows up. This would all be plainly obvious to an American.

 

[bataille]

That is a really great video. If anything, Capcom should watch it and see what they think should be fixed or not(zombies not getting into the main hall is really stupid when they can get past any door, btw).

I'm sure the management has been aware of ALL those aspects and a thousand more from the month the company's QA got their hands on the first playable build. The question, however, lies in prioritization. Since there is not enough time to do everything, stuff like this usually stays not implemented/fixed (low priority).

 

[Adon]

Giants. They were somewhat easy to cheese with the knife if you stay close to their legs.



Outside that, is not that useful. It is for punishing laid enemies though.

Easy to cheese El Gigante? Sure. But more efficient than 3 grenades? I would disagree.



Now, I agree that the knife is extremely useful in RE4, but not to the extent where you're able to defeat multiple bosses just with the knife outside of Krauser.