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Occidental Heroes - mobile roguelike retro RPG

baud

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Oh wow, I forgot about this thread.

To briefly summarize the beta combat changes:
- combat damage is more granular to allow for balancing, character progression, equipment upgrades, because with the hearts and shields system any change/buff/nerf would completely unbalance all combat in the game. The reason the old combat system made the game stand out is because other RPGs don't use it. Why? Because it's completely unsuitable for RPGs for the reasons I listed above;
- randomized damage and critical hits were added to combat so that the player never feels safe and that they sometimes get wiped even if they're good. That's frustrating but realistic and I'm fine with some players ragequitting because of it. The party members are meant to be replaceable and the game is meant to be replayed. I'll be adding mechanics/features to emphasize this.

I think that the beta combat system is better for a RPG (character progression, equipment upgrades...).

But I enjoyed the other system, for it provided short fight (important when you're playing on the go or during a break) and which were tense since a couple of misstep are enough to lose a character. Perhaps you could reuse it in another game, purely tactical, without a RPG part.
 

baud

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Oh wow, I forgot about this thread.

To briefly summarize the beta combat changes:
- combat damage is more granular to allow for balancing, character progression, equipment upgrades, because with the hearts and shields system any change/buff/nerf would completely unbalance all combat in the game. The reason the old combat system made the game stand out is because other RPGs don't use it. Why? Because it's completely unsuitable for RPGs for the reasons I listed above;
- randomized damage and critical hits were added to combat so that the player never feels safe and that they sometimes get wiped even if they're good. That's frustrating but realistic and I'm fine with some players ragequitting because of it. The party members are meant to be replaceable and the game is meant to be replayed. I'll be adding mechanics/features to emphasize this.

I think that the beta combat system is better for a RPG (character progression, equipment upgrades...).

But I enjoyed the other system, for it provided short fight (important when you're playing on the go or during a break) and which were tense since a couple of misstep are enough to lose a character. Perhaps you could reuse it in another game, purely tactical, without a RPG part.


I just realized, with this guide, that it is possible to unlock the western part of the map, which has a bunch of unique quests. Well, I'll have to play again some more.
 

X_Stories

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I am also a first time poster who has signed up literally just to talk about this game.

I took a look at this a year or so ago on Android, (I think I was actually looking for a mobile game that was inspired by Darklands) enjoyed the initial round of encounters, then dropped it when I realized it wasn't that deep.

A couple weeks ago I installed it again just to fiddle and uncovered Ryke's quest but it didn't end well. One of my close friends asked what I was playing and I told them, but after a few more hours I was done with the game and uninstalled it.

Then my friend sent me a TON of questions about how to unlock various abilities and quests etc and I was confused. They came over and we played together for a bit and that's when we realized the experience on iOS is closer to the latest version with new combat and more quests. And that you have to opt in to the Android Beta to get the latest update. Publish already!

Couple of thoughts:

Leveling up and retiring the various heroes at their highest happiness level *is* the core loop.
It's not signposted in the game anywhere, which is why I uninstalled.
There's still some weird stuff like not being able to retire all 15 heroes and "winning" the game if you don't take them in a specific order.
Ryke quest is great, but yeah, don't kill yourself on unique art and unique character write ups. Avoid the content treadmill - if you're going to make a new character model plan to use it somewhere else. Quests that are mainly text based are great, like the surgeon.

The first pass at combat is cool, but I like the hp bars better. I like that all the characters feel balanced now.

minor gripes
feels like civilized savage should have some of the naturalist abilities
Wandering traders are pretty bland
Buying the small bundle of supplies seems useless
Wish you could "unlock" more of the western map if you stumble on it.

Can't wait to see more additions!
 

Guy de Incognito

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I am also a first time poster who has signed up literally just to talk about this game.

Thank you for the feedback and suggestions.

There's still some weird stuff like not being able to retire all 15 heroes and "winning" the game if you don't take them in a specific order.

Could you elaborate on this? I mean there is no winning the game anyway, and there are some cases where you can't fulfill the party members goal (like failing the goal quest or winning in the arena when you don't have the palace guard in your company) but I don't think that's unreasonable that in a game that has permadeath. There's already so many opportunities for your character to die that for them not being able to fulfill some goal shouldn't be that big of a deal.


Avoid the content treadmill

TIL content treadmill is a thing. I'm now reading up on that. Although I gotta say writing takes up maybe 80% of my development time. It seemed so much easier before I had to actually sit down and do it.


Anyway, I'm still working on the game but I don't know when the next update will be.
 

Arnesh Sengupta

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Like X_Stories , I also joined just for this game. Just played it for the last few weeks and it's my favourite android game ever.

some feedback:

Everything's fantastic, I guess any updates would be pretty obvious like: bigger map, more fleshed out characters for characters with lots of potential like the Mysterious Stranger, the Devout Warrior Monk and even the Wandering Naturalist. I think more optional attractions(like the Fight Pit in Auherst) in the other towns would also be really cool.

Thanks for this game, it's really really good.
 

cyrano

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Hello!

This is my favorite game of the past year or two for sure. Thank you for creating and putting it out there!

I think getting to 100% feels like "winning" the game, though there is no other change really. I'm on the fence about the content treadmill, because on the one hand, it makes gameplay pretty meditative at higher levels. That being said, I wouldn't mind if the rich retirement threshold were set closer to 1000gp than 1200.

Also, it would be v rad if getting to 100% unlocked something special.

Thanks again!
::tips hat::
 

Ryuu

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Oh, didn't even notice it has potential beta access.

I think old combat system was nice too, less variety but it was novel, non-random and more tactical. Also made "skip turn" ability more valuable. And i don't know yet how to unlock this ability for all characters, found for some of them. In current party only ex-monk lacks it.
 

DavidBVal

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Oh, didn't even notice it has potential beta access.

I think old combat system was nice too, less variety but it was novel, non-random and more tactical. Also made "skip turn" ability more valuable. And i don't know yet how to unlock this ability for all characters, found for some of them. In current party only ex-monk lacks it.

All apps in the store have "potential" beta access, just construct the link starting by "https://play.google.com/apps/testing/" and then adding the package name, which you can see when you open the Play Store page of a game. If the developer has enabled open beta and some tester spots are still free, you'll get a button to "Join".

Some developers use closed beta instead, which requires an invitation.
 

Ryuu

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All apps in the store have "potential" beta access, just construct the link starting by "https://play.google.com/apps/testing/" and then adding the package name, which you can see when you open the Play Store page of a game. If the developer has enabled open beta and some tester spots are still free, you'll get a button to "Join".

Some developers use closed beta instead, which requires an invitation.
Ah, interesting, it's just so rare to see that Join button, i guess the default setting is closed beta.

But still we don't know if beta branch is used at all and contains any new content :)

Just seems weird to not update Android version despite the author saying in other threads that gets far more downloads there than on iOS :) Not that it really matters since there's no donation button or banners. Adding donation button on Android should be a good idea i think, judging by Pixel Dungeon.
 

DavidBVal

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More than donate, I'd add some extra features for a single small payment. I'd pay gladly.
 

DavidBVal

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More than donate, I'd add some extra features for a single small payment. I'd pay gladly.

What kind of features in Occidental Heroes you'd pay for? More classes? Bigger game map? More encounters?

Any of that, yeah. More quest types, even difficulty modes or challenges. When I like a game and want to support its developer, any excuse is good to throw money at it :D
 

Ryuu

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Hallelujah, an update for 0.9.9 version is up on Google Play just recently
 

baud

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Hallelujah, an update for 0.9.9 version is up on Google Play just recently
There are some UI changes and now you can check if there are mercenaries available in taverns even if you have 3 of them already; the only issue is that you don't know how much you would have to pay to hire them.

I haven't played enough to see if there was any content changes.
 
Last edited:

TigerKnee

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Is the current version on Google Play with the new or old tactical combat system?
 

SilverBullet

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Also made an account to post on this thread, and your game is a gem. The critic here is pretty butthurt and cheap, but i am here to suggest stuff.

New places. When our reputation reaches enough, the company should be allowed to travel to Trientier, via ship at the cost of 3000 gold. At Trientier, you can hire special adventurers local to that area, and there would be a line of new quests. Natives wouldn't be round there, but bandit encounter rates would increase. If your party includes either a Flamboyant Brigand, the Cowardly Army Bowman, the Fugitive Poacher, the Grizzled Army Veteran, the Unscrupulous War Profiteer, a Lords Second Son or the Disgraced Palace Guard, you can get special encounters for each of them according to their background in Trientier. Perhaps even the Jilted Lover can be reunited with his long lost love. Everything would be naturally more expensive. And you would have to sell you pack animals.

Lectures. In random (but associated towns) there is a really low chance likr (2%) to be able to attend a lecture on how to talk your way out of encouters, for perhaps 500 gold. At the monestaries, you would learn how to deal with cultists, and at Fort Venture, you would learn how to deal with Deserters. As for natives, only Vorascombana will do such. Rather than a lecture of dealing with them, you can learn how to talk ther language after saving Yopi and defeating the hermit. After a lecture, as long as one member in your party listened to it and is still alive/present, you may use it to get out.

I read about female adventurers, and I realised the only named women in the game are Sebelene, Meja and Harland du Grier's wife. IMO good idea none the less but not important and won't change game much.
 

baud

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Lectures. In random (but associated towns) there is a really low chance likr (2%) to be able to attend a lecture on how to talk your way out of encouters, for perhaps 500 gold. At the monestaries, you would learn how to deal with cultists, and at Fort Venture, you would learn how to deal with Deserters. As for natives, only Vorascombana will do such. Rather than a lecture of dealing with them, you can learn how to talk ther language after saving Yopi and defeating the hermit. After a lecture, as long as one member in your party listened to it and is still alive/present, you may use it to get out.

I like the idea of the possibility to gain a way to talk our way out of encounters, in addition to the various characters. Perhaps it could also be given as a quest reward.
 

Jhian Gabriel Muhi

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There's still some weird stuff like not being able to retire all 15 heroes and "winning" the game if you don't take them in a specific order.
Yeah. One time I tried hired the wandering naturalist when I only uncovered the towns, roads and monasteries that are not on the hinterlands, but Then I realized that even If I explore fully explore the entire map, Naturalist won't complete his goal.
...
That's why I wish the hinterlands were bigger, haha
 

Cartographer

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Guy de Incognito - I went to the trouble of making an account to comment here so I guess I'll make it worth it.

I've played Occidental Heroes (OccHer? OH? Occy?) for a few weeks and while I've by no means seen everything (I haven't yet retired a character happy) I do have some thoughts.

  • Having not played anywhere close to the whole game, I don't know if this ever comes full circle, but I really like the overarching natives v. Trentierians storyline - it reminds me of Reaper. I'd like to see arcs that give the party opportunities to learn the Yagights' language, educate the archeologues and other denizens about the natives, and/or have to take sides in a confrontation between natives and invaders.
  • Ease of travel - could it be possible to include, say, a guide background, possibly an archeologue or other educated person? Travel with the guide in your party could...
    • ...allow the party to travel two spaces on the map with one tap
    • ...allow the party to choose a visited location to travel to on the map
    • ...allow the party to pan/zoom the world map they travel in
    • ...use less resources
  • Clarity in distances - it's not immediately, or really ever, clear to me whether 'a long way north of here' is shorter or longer than 'very far north of here'. As in, I still don't know.
  • Party members swapping places in battle - could be cool to introduce as an addition or second upgrade to learning to wait. If a party character can't move to any space where they wouldn't be under attack and are adjacent to another party member, they could swap places on the surrounded character's turn if one/both have the ability. I can safely say a good third of my characters have fallen in battle because they simply couldn't pull out of the fray, being shut in by terrain features and unhelpful fellow party members. Although I can see that being a feature, not a bug.
  • Long-form quests, like Harland du Grier or witch doctor Meja, are really fun. If there was one thing I'd want for the next big update, it'd be more of them.
  • Speaking of Meja, the scene wherein her shack is threatened and the party must decide whether to help her is, as far as i know, the only one in the entire game where 'doing something' or 'helpinh out' is not the first option presented, but the second. It's not likely to be a problem for the first playthrough, but when replaying it's all to easy to forget that and accidentally choose to abandon the shack to Argento. Given that rejecting helping her is such a monumentally horrible thing to do, not to mention significantly worse for the party short- and long-term, making this mistake can ruin a run.
  • Presumably, more than two in-game female characters is on the agenda.
  • The game often calls characters by their short names (e.g., 'Nerian is a dingus' instead of 'Nerian de Lux is a dingus'). It would be nice to choose what that is for one's main character, as I noticed upon giving a character the name 'C. E. Dominic' and having him called C. for the rest of the game. Props for catching that possibility with names that start with 'The', however.
  • Not sure if the game contains an option to learn Yagight, perhaps in Capriss, but if not it seems like it would be neat. In general, I concur with earlier comments that being able to learn how to avoid encounters would be excellent.
  • Suggestion for the unscrupulous war profiteer (Simi): haggling (which works on more and more characters as reputation grows). So for instance, a party with Simi and reasonable renown could haggle a higher price out of a tavern quest-giver, but not out of the Viceroy. Obviously, some characters - Harland, for instance - could be haggled for more money, while others - Wollin - couldn't be haggled for any.
  • Non-binary/chaotic results: a lot of things in the game, particularly renown and character abilities, essentially operate on a tier system. The party goes from 'completely unknown' to 'only barely known' to 'slightly known' to 'somewhat known' to 'well known' to 'somewhat famous' and so on, for instance, which is basically just 0 to 1 to 2 to 3, et cetera. I'd like to see lower or higher chances instead of a simple 'you can't do it at all until level ___, then you definitely can' system as is present now. So for instance if a character previously required 'somewhat known' to speak with, a slightly known party might have a 33% chance of getting through, an only barely known party a 25% chance, a completely unknown party a 17% chance, while a somewhat known party would have 50% odds, a well known, 67%, and so on. Meanwhile, a party without Brother Hiri might have a 25% chance of evading a Yagight encounter, whilst one with him might have 75% odds.
  • Speaking of encounters, it would be nice to see more than one 'evasion' - for instance, Brother Hiri always gets out of the Yagight fight by telling them that he is doing God's work in a different guise than they.
  • Higher/lower odds of 'A miracle! ___ has survived' dependent on distance to a city would be nice. And helpful.
  • The map is good and all, but perhaps you could purchase a better one, complete with fortress/monastery/Vorascombana labelled, in Capriss?
  • I like the idea of the smuggling quest in Capriss, which you can report right away to the town's leader, but it's easy to figure out what's best to do, since they both pay the same and reporting the operation requires no travel. It's possible I haven't realised this comes with a penalty (do the smugglers hire you for additional future jobs if you don't report them? Can you milk a higher price upon completing the job?), but I'd like it if Capriss's ruler paid you less than the smugglers were planning to.
  • Unique city events, such as Grionti's lenses, Capriss's lecture, and Auhert's Beacon's arena matches, are precious rare. But they're also awful fun. Not to mention that there are plenty of places to go with them, because the cities have such unique character. How about a Hrok-centric competition in his namesake crossing? A boat ride to other coastal cities from Auhert's Beacon? A treacherous but rewarding mining expedition in Bessemburg, perhaps to jump-start the keening steel loop? High-stakes gambling in Grionti?
  • If you're ever thinking about a sequel, I'd love to explore the world of Trentier, perhaps even with the characters on the other ends of Occidental Heroes's backstories (the jilted lover's ex, the nobleman offended by the poacher, the backstabber who lead the coup against the betrayed mercenary captain).
  • There needs to be some sort of way to appease the Hettering administrator.
  • Reddit seems to believe the archer is the best class, the fencer the worst, which I can't say I agree with (MaA-F-A is how I'd rank them, but what do I know?). Still, almost everybody says fencer is a distant third, probably because he dies so easily. Perhaps he could use a few more skills, or maybe just a better chance of crits.
  • If you're trying to get a certain class or backstory via tavern hire, you have to check in the tavern, then leave the city entirely, then return to the tavern and look again. Given that this is already an option, it'd be nice if you could do it without leaving the tavern.
  • Meeting characters who offer to join your party outside of taverns could be interesting, perhaps as a surprise appearance during or survivor from an encounter. What if Naygor could join your party, for instance? He's already got a great backstory and character goal, particularly if he is in fact the captain's son and not just a mysterious thief.
  • Maybe I'm just stupid, but where does the party-joining retainer go? It would make sense to give it to the new member, since that's what the writing seems to imply, and it'd give him a good head-start, but as far as I can tell it just disappears.
  • Last but not least: I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times, but permadeath is kind of crappy. It's hard to say how it could be improved - game saves feel unnatural, in-game resurrection feels out of place, and it's not like a miracle can take place in every battle - but I often (don't laugh) form a bit of an attachment to my main character. (My self-created mythos for wandering naturalist The Man is extensive.) Having it torn away in one often unimportant encounter hurts.
Overall, Occidental Heroes is one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played. Your emphasis on story and writing is refreshing and engaging, at least for me. Keep up the great work!
 

baud

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Lots of things I don't remember seeing in the game, most likely added in the last update

It look like a new playthrough of that game is in order.

Regarding permadeath, I'd say that the new health system is way less infuriating that the original one, in that regard
 

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