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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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I have 't put much into crafting skills, until the last couple of levels, but I have te money to buy heavy armor.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
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Wonderland
I really want to make a full stealth PSI build but I so hate to miss all the mines, secrets and enemies in stealth since you cannot get a decent Perception score on such a character.
Put 6 PER and take Snooping feat. Basically, 10++++++ WIL/6 PER/6 INT (7 if you want to take crafting feats like Power Management to augment your defense and Neurology to augment your offense), and then invest the rest of attribute points into AGI since you want to be stealthy. STR and DEX you can dump. This is basically the character I played when I finished the game for the second time, a stealthy PSI with dumped CON, STR, DEX and 0 Dodge/Evasion. I saw probably 90% of all the secrets this way, too. Maybe wear an Adaptive Goggle (or whatever it is, I forgot which one increase PER by 1) and switch to Detection Goggle when stumbling into minefields.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
I just started a stealthy psi wizard last night, with 3 per and no points in traps, and he's spotting mines and hidden stalkers (before he spots them). You have to be in stealth when exploring, and don't just beeline everywhere.

I have been playing with my PSI Sniper and 10 perception and you do not spot Death Stalkers with such a low perception before they spot you on Autistic difficulty.

I really want to make a full stealth PSI build but I so hate to miss all the mines, secrets and enemies in stealth since you cannot get a decent Perception score on such a character.

It's not that bad, you can always just spam the fuck out of Metathermics powers to deal with mines and enemies.
Also, you could just try to make an unconventional build like a perceptive mage, now that you know the game inside and out.

There's at least one other unconventional mage build you can do which is pretty fun, and that is the very high CON mage, already somewhat encouraged by feats like http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fast_Metabolism, and in Expedition there is even more incentive to create such a mage, or so I've heard...

Do you mean the aura? Does it trigger mines?

Fire on the ground does trigger mines, yes, but you get that aura psi power very late into the game, I mean Pyrokinesis for exploding traps, and Pyrokinesis/Pyrokinetic Stream/Cryokinetic Orb for hitting stealthed enemies.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Are psions getting nerfed in the expansion?

Quite contrary.

Because of the new discipline or are there buff that concern the 3 main disciplines?

Hilarious.

I just can't put this down now, must have sunk in about 6 hours yesterday and already thinking about what I'd do differently in another playthrough.
I've finished off the Arena & Gauntlet, took the base with Gorsky and got the house from the Coretech quests, now at the Protectorate base (Fort something)

As I have no weapons to maintain and only ever occasionally buy some psi/health boosters can I dump all my money into the house upgrades or is there anything worth saving for that's useful for psionics?

Super Steel might interest you even as a psionic, you can use it to make some nice boots depending on your playstyle, like say Infused Pig Leather Tabis if you're low on CON.

Or normal pig leather boots for the CC.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
Are psions getting nerfed in the expansion?

Quite contrary.

Because of the new discipline or are there buff that concern the 3 main disciplines?

Hilarious.

I just can't put this down now, must have sunk in about 6 hours yesterday and already thinking about what I'd do differently in another playthrough.
I've finished off the Arena & Gauntlet, took the base with Gorsky and got the house from the Coretech quests, now at the Protectorate base (Fort something)

As I have no weapons to maintain and only ever occasionally buy some psi/health boosters can I dump all my money into the house upgrades or is there anything worth saving for that's useful for psionics?

Super Steel might interest you even as a psionic, you can use it to make some nice boots depending on your playstyle, like say Infused Pig Leather Tabis if you're low on CON.

Or normal pig leather boots for the CC.
True but as a psionic you'll be doing a lot more kiting than carrying heavy stuff.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
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Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I really want to make a full stealth PSI build but I so hate to miss all the mines, secrets and enemies in stealth since you cannot get a decent Perception score on such a character.
Put 6 PER and take Snooping feat. Basically, 10++++++ WIL/6 PER/6 INT (7 if you want to take crafting feats like Power Management to augment your defense and Neurology to augment your offense), and then invest the rest of attribute points into AGI since you want to be stealthy. STR and DEX you can dump. This is basically the character I played when I finished the game for the second time, a stealthy PSI with dumped CON, STR, DEX and 0 Dodge/Evasion. I saw probably 90% of all the secrets this way, too. Maybe wear an Adaptive Goggle (or whatever it is, I forgot which one increase PER by 1) and switch to Detection Goggle when stumbling into minefields.

I was thinking along the lines of this:
First draft: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDBwYFDwcAAAAAAADCglppAABfXwBaAMKHLcKHPABLKzkoHSwqZQVQIWYKLlcp

Not sure where to put Snooping. I am thinking about getting +1 perception and +2 perception from Junkyard Surprise.
 

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
I was thinking along the lines of this:
First draft: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDBwYFDwcAAAAAAADCglppAABfXwBaAMKHLcKHPABLKzkoHSwqZQVQIWYKLlcp

Not sure where to put Snooping. I am thinking about getting +1 perception and +2 perception from Junkyard Surprise.
You dont really need such a high Will even if you play pure psion. Most psi powers reach their cap at 300 effective level. Even if you have 10 Will, you can reach like 250 effective level in psi skills with headband and tac vest/ riot gear. Extra 50 points will yield a rather marginal power increase, so you can reduce will and invest more points into perception.
But if you want high perception, why not to spice up psionics with some gun action?
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQUDBgYKCgbChwAAAADCh8KCTkgASwAAAAAAwofCh8KHMgAAKzkBLBQqZTUzSyECN0km
Btw, ambush can be triggered with the light from telekinetic proxy.
 

Fenix

Arcane
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Jul 18, 2015
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Russia atchoum!
Speaking of the arena - can you suggest atactic for a sniper/guns oriented charactervs the Carnifex, where the Carnifex gets to move first? He leaves me at a sliver of health and with a ton of status effects, and I can barely do anything when my turn comes.

There is only two tactics.
First - get first turn!
Second - survive Invictus assault!
For that you need to be exceptionally armored and even that doesn't guarantee you will win, because of his HP pool... especially on Domination.

So, first thing to do - try to win Initiative. I'm not sure is new food already in game - experimental branch anyone? If yes, use food and hopper leather equipment.

Like, if you want to play Ironman/roguelike run, your most valuable stat is Initiative, because if you want to beat Arena, you need to beat 29 + possible 15 from Initiative roll that Carnifec can well... roll.

crawler caltrops

He often resist stun from them, and I guess from taser too, just like flashbangs.

I really want to make a full stealth PSI build but I so hate to miss all the mines, secrets and enemies in stealth since you cannot get a decent Perception score on such a character.

I feel you bro! I hate that too with all of my heart! But even with 3 Per you can get Snooping, and Paranoia - and why you wouldn't huh, with mushroom soup, and goggles it's already 8... and who knows...
Also you can use that build where everything put in Will and Int and the rest in Per. Or you can put 5 in Per, have 3 ability points for spare and get 10 Per for secrets with food/equipment.

+2 perception from Junkyard Surprise

Not sure you can get Per from it...

Btw, ambush can be triggered with the light from telekinetic proxy.

Ahah, thatnks, good to know.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
31
I have been playing with my PSI Sniper and 10 perception and you do not spot Death Stalkers with such a low perception before they spot you on Autistic difficulty.

It doesn't matter what your detection is, you'll never spot them first unless you have high stealth. Stealth > detection.
My crossbow sniper with 325 detection can spot them, if she's stealthed (250ish) and moving slowly, but even with +100% detection goggles (650) she will never ever spot them before they get to her if she's not stealthed. Even if you have a low perception, if you have sufficiently high stealth, you may spot them first, or at least before they get to you.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
By the way is it possible to create an armor which is good for both stealth and psi? Preferably with low armor penalty.
Lowest armor penalty and best protection is 27% if you make an insulated/biohazard riot gear with psi carapace shield and black cloth. You need STR 4 for it though.
Otherwise you can make a tactical vest out of the same components for 30%.
 

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
Lowest armor penalty and best protection is 27% if you make an insulated/biohazard riot gear with psi carapace shield and black cloth. You need STR 4 for it though.
Otherwise you can make a tactical vest out of the same components for 30%.
I'd pick sturdy vest over insulated and biohazard, especially on hard and dominating difficulty.
Enemies that deal cold and bio damage are rare, while extra life points are helpful in any situation.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
Lowest armor penalty and best protection is 27% if you make an insulated/biohazard riot gear with psi carapace shield and black cloth. You need STR 4 for it though.
Otherwise you can make a tactical vest out of the same components for 30%.
I'd pick sturdy vest over insulated and biohazard, especially on hard and dominating difficulty.
Enemies that deal cold and bio damage are rare, while extra life points are helpful in any situation.
That's true but study vest also increases the armor penalty unlike what it says on the wiki. It's not by a large amount though.
 

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
I was thinking along the lines of this:
First draft: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDBwYFDwcAAAAAAADCglppAABfXwBaAMKHLcKHPABLKzkoHSwqZQVQIWYKLlcp

Not sure where to put Snooping. I am thinking about getting +1 perception and +2 perception from Junkyard Surprise.
Most psi powers reach their cap at 300 effective level.

Based on what do you conclude this?
Based on wiki. Even if some of the powers do scale past 300, I doubt you can get more than 343 in any psi skill.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
I was thinking along the lines of this:
First draft: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDBwYFDwcAAAAAAADCglppAABfXwBaAMKHLcKHPABLKzkoHSwqZQVQIWYKLlcp

Not sure where to put Snooping. I am thinking about getting +1 perception and +2 perception from Junkyard Surprise.
Most psi powers reach their cap at 300 effective level.

Based on what do you conclude this?
Based on wiki. Even if some of the powers do scale past 300

The tables stops at 300 and the damage increase for psi powers is linear for 0-300, to say that that suddenly changes after 300 is pretty unfounded.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
584
That's true but study vest also increases the armor penalty unlike what it says on the wiki. It's not by a large amount though.
I tested just now and sturdy doesn't have any penalty for me. Sturdy/Bio/Insulated have no penalty, Regen/Galvanic are +5% on tactical vest and +10% on riot. Still not sure why Styg felt the need to make riot gear get hurt more than tactical when it's already really bad.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
That's true but study vest also increases the armor penalty unlike what it says on the wiki. It's not by a large amount though.
I tested just now and sturdy doesn't have any penalty for me. Sturdy/Bio/Insulated have no penalty, Regen/Galvanic are +5% on tactical vest and +10% on riot. Still not sure why Styg felt the need to make riot gear get hurt more than tactical when it's already really bad.
Probably a recent change in the latest experimental or beta builds then, we'll see. Riot Gear is not so bad without a shield, the anti-melee bonus is alright, and you can still use any weapon you want.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
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Location
Wonderland
I was thinking along the lines of this:
First draft: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDBwYFDwcAAAAAAADCglppAABfXwBaAMKHLcKHPABLKzkoHSwqZQVQIWYKLlcp

Not sure where to put Snooping. I am thinking about getting +1 perception and +2 perception from Junkyard Surprise.
I don't remember taking both Interloper AND Paranoia, probably only one of them, so I guess those you can replace with Snooping?

Or you could wait until the xpac drop and see what you can do with that build. To be honest, my stealth-PSI wasn't a full PSI since I have 0 Metathermics and only partially invested in Psychokinesis, so I guess I had a bit more leniency regarding feats and had the opportunity to take Snooping from the very start.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
Probably a recent change in the latest experimental or beta builds then, we'll see.
Nah, sturdy vest never had any armor penalty.

I'll check later, but I can nearly promise you the sturdy vest has a +5% penalty now, if not ever before.

Btw, where the hell do you find boot springs reliably? No conventional merchants seem to carry them and my habit of going psycho on merchants outside of towns does not help things.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
584
Probably a recent change in the latest experimental or beta builds then, we'll see. Riot Gear is not so bad without a shield, the anti-melee bonus is alright, and you can still use any weapon you want.
I don't know. Riot can be okay against melee, but it sucks against everything else. At best it seems like the sort of thing you keep in your bag and only put on when you're going to areas where you know it'll be useful, rather than a default thing that you wear at all times like the other three armour types are. Shields suck too, since 35% chance to actually work just isn't enough to rely on.
Also I'm on the latest experimental but not the alpha. Not sure what you're on, but I'm confident sturdy vests have never had a penalty up until now at least.
I'm fairly certain the core city faction merchants sell boot springs pretty often. But not totally certain.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
Probably a recent change in the latest experimental or beta builds then, we'll see. Riot Gear is not so bad without a shield, the anti-melee bonus is alright, and you can still use any weapon you want.
I don't know. Riot can be okay against melee, but it sucks against everything else. At best it seems like the sort of thing you keep in your bag and only put on when you're going to areas where you know it'll be useful, rather than a default thing that you wear at all times like the other three armour types are. Shields suck too, since 35% chance to actually work just isn't enough to rely on.
Also I'm on the latest experimental but not the alpha. Not sure what you're on, but I'm confident sturdy vests have never had a penalty up until now at least.
I'm fairly certain the core city faction merchants sell boot springs pretty often. But not totally certain.
I've figured it out, it's Aluminized Cloth that had a +5 armor penalty that's not listed on the wiki, not the Sturdy Vest, sorry for the confusion.
I'll check the faction merchants some more.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I was thinking along the lines of this:
First draft: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDBwYFDwcAAAAAAADCglppAABfXwBaAMKHLcKHPABLKzkoHSwqZQVQIWYKLlcp

Not sure where to put Snooping. I am thinking about getting +1 perception and +2 perception from Junkyard Surprise.
I don't remember taking both Interloper AND Paranoia, probably only one of them, so I guess those you can replace with Snooping?

Or you could wait until the xpac drop and see what you can do with that build. To be honest, my stealth-PSI wasn't a full PSI since I have 0 Metathermics and only partially invested in Psychokinesis, so I guess I had a bit more leniency regarding feats and had the opportunity to take Snooping from the very start.

I love the quality of life interloper brings, makes it so much easier avoiding even larger groups of enemies. Paranoia is there for the early detection bonus since already on your way to GMS you can encounter them and more detection is always welcome. Added initiative and reduced chance to be critically hit are icing on the top. I think I can live without finding secrets but mines are just too deadly on Autistic.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
31
Boot springs are like rapid reloaders; lots of merchants sell them, just rarely.
 

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