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Resident Evil 2 Remake

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
On Claire B and I'm enjoying the Police Station perhaps even more now. The lobby not even having a save room/item box along with Mr X appearing really quickly ensures some of the repetition isn't dull. Dreading the Sherry parts later on that were easily the worst part of the original but hopefully they improved those.

Guessing those Broken Sword 3-esque box puzzles are gone too which can only be a good thing.
 
Last edited:

KK1001

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
621
Yep, it's pretty much a third person action game and by the end your character is strapped with so much artillery that the zombies are the ones fleeing in terror.

Right. The beauty of Resident Evil 2 comes from the tone, the gorgeous background art, the sound, the colors, and the sense of intangible, dark mystery behind it all (watch any Japanese horror film from the 1990s and you'll get this too).
 

TheRedSnifit

Educated
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
55
The way it currently works does encourage degenerate gameplay (retreating to safe rooms or areas where one can shake him off), and indeed makes him more often than not an annoyance rather than a challenge, but that is not, then, because he is on the player's trail too often, but rather not often enough. Were he a more persistent pursuer, he would be more likely to catch the player in those situations in which he is genuinely dangerous (e.g. where there are other enemies).

One way they could do this is by having him patrol the area outside the safe rooms rather than have him leave, plus making it harder for him to lose the player's trail. They could then prevent this from being a total block on player exploration by adding specific environmental hazards that the player can activate in order to incapacitate him for a while (maybe 15 minutes or so, longer than his normal 'stun', in any case). This would differ from the current shake off tactics in that it would be better balanced and integrated into the level design. This they could do by making it so that the player has to survive certain hostile areas to get to the hazards, or better yet, requiring the player to actually fight the tyrant into a 'stun' in order to activate the hazards, while also having the battle area where you are supposed to down him be tight like in the elevator fight.

Had they implemented it like that they would have been able to remain more faithful to the original, while also implementing the 'emergent' aspect more fully. Heck, they could even have had him drop loot if you incapacitate him in the 'special' way, thus restoring the risk/reward element. I just feel that, as it stands, the feature seems unfinished and it probably would have been less of a hassle if they had just done it the old way. Perhaps they didn't really understand the design conundrum into which they got themselves by implementing this, and in the end it turned out they didn't have the time to really work out all of the kinks.

If they are really going to commit to this approach going forward, they should start finding solutions to these issues, because if X can't create challenge, tension, and unpredictability, there is really no point for him being implemented in the way he is. Perhaps they saw him, in part, as a good chance for a Nemesis test run. Let's just hope they are able flesh the mechanic out when the latter's time comes.

As I said in one of my previous posts, I am overall ambivalent about this aspect of the game, and a lot of its potential was unfulfilled. It did work as intended at times, and when it did, it was worth it. I also had a lot of fun with the mechanic the first time around, as it did create tension. But it does get weaker on replays and it says something that most of the best encounters with him are scripted. Definitely one of those areas with room for improvement.

Mr. X isn't really supposed to be a challenging enemy in and of himself, he's supposed to punish you for getting lost, not knowing which areas you didn't clear zombies from, etc. He's more an environmental hazard than an enemy.

It's probably the best thing they could have done with him. One of the reasons the original RE2 and 3 are basically just really clunky, braindead-easy action shooters is because they're designed around these optional bosses in Mr. X and Nemesis. They have to assume you're going to fight the optional boss and they give out truckloads of ammo accordingly, then you can just pocket the ammo and run around them.

I don't know how they can really fix that in a potential RE3 remake without taking the Mr. X route. They could make all the Nemesis encounters forced fights, I guess. More likely they'll just turn it into the clunky popamole the original RE2 and 3 are (but nobody wants to acknowledge for some reason).
 

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
Yeah, I'm not too excited by a RE3 remake. It'll be too action packed and I much prefer the excellent design of the Police Station to running around streets in the city. I'd prefer Capcom remake Code Veronica (meant to be the true RE3 anyway) or even better, just focus on originals that do away with story focused cutscenes etc. and focus on the high points of the police station and Baker residence.

In saying that I like RE3 but I just don't think it'll translate well to a survival horror remake.
 

Freddie

Savant
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
717
Location
Mansion
In every game ever, I hate sewers the most.
Never played as Nosferatu in VTMB, it seems.

No! I’ve started that game a few times but I keep quitting at the tutorial ‘cause the graphics make me nauseous.
The most common cause for this is narrow field of view. FOV is actually adjustable in RE2 Remake (under 'Graphics') so try expanding it and see if that helps.

Also, I think I am the only one, I liked the modern take to the background music more than the classic one. Mind me the classic music is better, more atmospheric, creepy and in general memorable. However the modern approach blends better in the game, is more dynamic, less repetitive. I also liked that the most part of the time there is no music at all. The moments of absolute lack of music are important too in a game: the music happens only when it matters, its not a filler. I think it is the best use of background music from the time of Half Life or Portal.
It's subtle and for me works exactly because of that.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
The way it currently works does encourage degenerate gameplay (retreating to safe rooms or areas where one can shake him off), and indeed makes him more often than not an annoyance rather than a challenge, but that is not, then, because he is on the player's trail too often, but rather not often enough. Were he a more persistent pursuer, he would be more likely to catch the player in those situations in which he is genuinely dangerous (e.g. where there are other enemies).

One way they could do this is by having him patrol the area outside the safe rooms rather than have him leave, plus making it harder for him to lose the player's trail. They could then prevent this from being a total block on player exploration by adding specific environmental hazards that the player can activate in order to incapacitate him for a while (maybe 15 minutes or so, longer than his normal 'stun', in any case). This would differ from the current shake off tactics in that it would be better balanced and integrated into the level design. This they could do by making it so that the player has to survive certain hostile areas to get to the hazards, or better yet, requiring the player to actually fight the tyrant into a 'stun' in order to activate the hazards, while also having the battle area where you are supposed to down him be tight like in the elevator fight.

Had they implemented it like that they would have been able to remain more faithful to the original, while also implementing the 'emergent' aspect more fully. Heck, they could even have had him drop loot if you incapacitate him in the 'special' way, thus restoring the risk/reward element. I just feel that, as it stands, the feature seems unfinished and it probably would have been less of a hassle if they had just done it the old way. Perhaps they didn't really understand the design conundrum into which they got themselves by implementing this, and in the end it turned out they didn't have the time to really work out all of the kinks.

If they are really going to commit to this approach going forward, they should start finding solutions to these issues, because if X can't create challenge, tension, and unpredictability, there is really no point for him being implemented in the way he is. Perhaps they saw him, in part, as a good chance for a Nemesis test run. Let's just hope they are able flesh the mechanic out when the latter's time comes.

As I said in one of my previous posts, I am overall ambivalent about this aspect of the game, and a lot of its potential was unfulfilled. It did work as intended at times, and when it did, it was worth it. I also had a lot of fun with the mechanic the first time around, as it did create tension. But it does get weaker on replays and it says something that most of the best encounters with him are scripted. Definitely one of those areas with room for improvement.

They actually do have him patrolling in real-time which is one reason he may not show up when it would be most effective, of course he does teleport when the story requires him to do so but when not he really is spawned and patrolling.
 

Ventidius

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
They actually do have him patrolling in real-time which is one reason he may not show up when it would be most effective, of course he does teleport when the story requires him to do so but when not he really is spawned and patrolling.

Yeah, that does seem to be the case: https://steamcommunity.com/app/883710/discussions/0/1779388024838379894/

That's a pretty cool feature tbh, but there are still some aspects of his mechanics that seem to remain obscure. For example, I'm still not quite sure of how he tracks the player. I have heard that if you dally around long enough in an area, he will show up, which in my experience checks out. But that could be either because he has a routine, and thus the area in which you are in will inevitably get its 'turn', or because he 'cheats' and the game gives it your location after a certain amount of time. Apparently running, and footsteps more generally, don't affect his ability to detect you across rooms at all, but gunshots do. I think improving his detection and player tracking capabilities would be a good way of boosting his ability to be a threat.
 

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
I'm guessing if your in a certain area his patrol will narrow down to a few room close by which makes sense as the station is fairly big. I think that's correct that the game tells him where you are at times too as I've run into situations where he's entered a room I'm in and despite me being behind shelves/a wall he's come straight for me.

I'm not usually a fan of rogue likes but the police station could benefit from a game mode (if there's one in it and I haven't unlocked it that would be a bonus) that's police station only, has random scripted Mr X scenarios along with his usual patrolling and items are sorted at random (including safe codes which should change).
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
Yeah, I'm not too excited by a RE3 remake. It'll be too action packed and I much prefer the excellent design of the Police Station to running around streets in the city. I'd prefer Capcom remake Code Veronica (meant to be the true RE3 anyway) or even better, just focus on originals that do away with story focused cutscenes etc. and focus on the high points of the police station and Baker residence.

^This

RE3 was always my least favorite of the older titles. I guess a remake could be cool, but if it's going to significantly delay other RE games then I'd rather they not do it.

Code Veronica was so much better imo.
 

Adon

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
667
The only thing better about Code Veronica was the music -- particularly Alexia's boss theme -- and the level design. Otherwise I rank CV with the rest of the low tier RE games like Revelations 1 (which had an amazing OST)

But then again RE has always been that one franchise for me where there's something I always like about every game that I've played.
 

TheRedSnifit

Educated
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
55
Yeah, that does seem to be the case: https://steamcommunity.com/app/883710/discussions/0/1779388024838379894/

That's a pretty cool feature tbh, but there are still some aspects of his mechanics that seem to remain obscure. For example, I'm still not quite sure of how he tracks the player. I have heard that if you dally around long enough in an area, he will show up, which in my experience checks out. But that could be either because he has a routine, and thus the area in which you are in will inevitably get its 'turn', or because he 'cheats' and the game gives it your location after a certain amount of time. Apparently running, and footsteps more generally, don't affect his ability to detect you across rooms at all, but gunshots do. I think improving his detection and player tracking capabilities would be a good way of boosting his ability to be a threat.

https://www.reddit.com/r/residentevil/comments/aopzoh/re2mr_x_is_actually_extremely_fast_when_he/

He moves at 4X speed when searching rooms that aren't actually rendered. That's why it seems like he zeroes in on the player. Obviously there's some scripting going on too. But in general he's always just a few rooms behind you if you keep moving.

I don't know for sure whether or not he reacts to sprinting, but in my experience it at least feels like he does.
 

Momock

Augur
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
644
The only thing better about Code Veronica was the music -- particularly Alexia's boss theme -- and the level design.
Oh yeah... JUST that! :D

Take Code Veronica, remove the Wesker is alive (and is Neo) bullshit and add hard mode -> best game ever.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
Code Veronica is the worst classic RE game. It is ugly, have the lamest and cringiest story, and it is even worse than RE Zero in terms of backtracking.
 

TheHeroOfTime

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
2,879
Location
S-pain
Take Code veronica, remove everything it has and remake it from scratch. And maybe, just maybe, it could be a good game this time. :troll:
 

Adon

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
667
The only thing better about Code Veronica was the music -- particularly Alexia's boss theme -- and the level design.
Oh yeah... JUST that! :D

Take Code Veronica, remove the Wesker is alive (and is Neo) bullshit and add hard mode -> best game ever.

Right, as if those were the only issues with that game. Let's not forget Steve, the story in general (the intro is so lolwhat), the awful backtracking, the boring/drab environments (Antarctica lab not included), these guys, etc.,

The only reason I give props to the level design over RE3 is because Rockfort Island has (an awful amount of) backtracking, but the actual environments and art direction is pretty dull compared to seeing the destroyed leftovers of Raccoon City from RE3.

RE3 is more linear due to the more dangerous enemies that are not limited to Nemesis, but you can easily fix that in a remake. Can't say the same for CV without having to overhaul everything in that game.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
RE3 was easily the least ambitious and interesting of the classic games.

I didn't find anything boring about Code Veronica. On the contrary, The setting for RE3 was largely just a rehash of RE2 and felt like pure laziness where the level design was concerned. There's a reason why so many RE fans refer to RE3 as "RE 2.5".

CV was interesting because it finally got us out of Raccoon City (Thank God!), and the story was more than just being about modern day Umbrella.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
any game that features wesker was bad. a big part of the reason RE2 is remembered so fondly is due to the lack of horribu animu shit, like Wesker and alexa and whatever other silly shit. RE2 (and 1 I guess) are way more grounded and thus held up better throughout time.
 

Adon

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
667
I don't know how RE3 is a rehash of RE2 in anything but the Police Station of which you only explore 10% of for like 20 minutes at best.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
It's the same section of Raccoon City and it feels like it. Even though it's not the exact same locations, they have that 'been here done that' feel about them.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
6,202
Location
Basement
Doesn't like 95% of RE2 take place inside the police station, sewers and the Umbrella lab?

RE3 mostly takes place in the streets (which are only featured in the first minutes of RE2) and then the clock tower, hospital, park and the factory. All new locations and don't feel similar to the RE2 locations at all in my opinion.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
Not sure how anyone could think they don't feel similar at all. They could have combined them into one game and no one would have been the wiser.
 

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