Kenshi - open-ended sandbox RPG set in a desert world

[spectre]

So, I gave this game a spin. I am at the same time impressed with the scope and promise, and slightly unimpressed with how it all plays out.

Here's how it went - rolled a few characters first, ran naked through the desert escaping manhunters, tried stealing stuff from a shop, got caught, got left bleeding in the sand. Felt really great.
I did some LARPing for a bit, and the game works quite nicely when you do, but now that I feel like actually want to make some progress, it feels like I'm banging my head against the wall.

So, starting another playthrough with one character. Started in Hub which feels like a good place to begin. Moved to Squin for the time being. First step was to train my guy in stealing and Squin is great for it.
Managed to amass a small fortune, I bought property in Squin, searched for a bunch of recruits, made (bought) friends with the ninjas.
So far my team looks like this:
Three scout/thieves (one negro, two stickmen) - they have absurd athletics and can outrun pretty much anything. I send them on errands to transfer items between people, clear path to new locations
- discovered the Swamp town, Mongrel, a bunch of towns and outposts of the fanatic faction, cleared the way to the skeleton city.
The second stickman is a fairly new addition and is still training, the other guys are fairly competent thieves which solves my food and money issues - selling a bunch of schematics at the waystation gives a good 20 000 of income per run,
pilfering the Squin bar gives me a good stock of meatwraps and fish.

Three craftsmen - one specializes in armor, one in weapons (both are 70+ skill), I recently started the third guy on the crossbows. I mostly buy materials at the waystation/shops. Setting up a mining operation felt like a bother and the raw materials
aren't expensive. They also build and research stuff, I've done most of the stuff from level 3 not requiring engineering and ancient books.

So here's my problem, I sunk a good number of hours into the game, feels like I have a good basis for... something, but whenever I try and move forward, I can't seem to make any progress.

I tried to do some exploring, to the east, found a sunken library, but I am not seeing how I can loot it without being swarmed by the spiders. Tried to divide into two squads for a diversion, but it didn't work out.

Next, I tried to setup some outposts, but honestly, it feels like a bit of a bother. I'm not really need food or raw materials because I can just buy them, but I am constantly being pestered by some wankers which interrupts work as
I run back to the nearest garrisson to take them out which... feels a bit cheap. So it seems that to progress I need to brush up on my fighting skills.

I'm trying to develop crossbow proficiency on my scouts. Started with toothpics and it seems like a good idea, but I'm having trouble finding suitable target practice. Fogmen and starving bandits are too fast, dust bandits knock me around, a lone goat is fine, but wildlife is a bit scarce.
Ranged combat feels a bit better than melee, because melee is a clusterfuck - sometimes one guy drops four enemies with one swing, another time four guys gang up on one and pick him apart.

Tried to do some melee fighting, recruited a bunch of sheks as a core of my team. My smiths and thieves can outfit them with all kinds of gear with no problems, but trying to fight bandits proved to be a disaster, so I figured I need to train.
Not sure if I'm doing this right, but it feels really too grindy for my tastes.
I bought property in the hub, built bunks and storage for the guys as well as a bunch of holding cells. Started with strength training using backpack + carry a guy method, went to 15-20s on most guys and decided to call it a day (progress wasn't bad but felt like too much micromanagement). Then I built training dummies, gave the guys polearms for the indoors penalty and worked them until I got 15+ attack.
Then I got lucky and got me three prisoners. Gave them some armor and rusty sticks. It was funny when one dust bandit prisoner with a club dropped 5 of my unarmed guys. I repeated this for a few times with nice toughness gains to show,
but it still doesn't feel like I'm anywhere near getting competent. The point is moot now, because on loading a save all my captives are no longer in their cells.

So, any pointers would be appreciated. Am I missing something here? Or perhaps I should just get some mods? I only have the dark UI thing.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Just a preview.
--
After escaping from Rebirth, I made my way south and west, as far from the Holy Lands as my feet could carry me.

In the mist I heard them. It was faint at first, the howling. I thought it was wind in the distance...

Then, from all angles, the howling grew louder. In the distance, I thought I saw movement, the mist billowing around bodies. Shadows danced around me as the day continued. I felt a chill down my spine and didn't stop running. For the first time in a long time, I felt fear.

I continued without slowing or losing my breath, and as night fell I found a small but tall cluster of rocks and climbed. The rocks were slick with moisture and a moss-like substance, making climbing perilous. Looking back, I can still feel the haunting desperation that propelled me. I'd been moving for hours without any real idea of where I was in this cursed, sunless country and needed to get my bearings. There in the distance on the moonlit horizon, jutting out from above the mist like some blistering canker, were lights. Not torches, but lights. In the morning, I would continue towards them.

An agonizing howl, like some animal in pain, sounded off nearer to me than any of the others. I quickly ducked down and flattened my form against the slick rock tops. My heart raced and my breath came in small, silent gulps. Whatever it was came closer to me than anything had before. But rather than stop and investigate the rocks, it moved on, crying out. That howl was answered by another in the distance.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

stuff

you're ignoring that characters in rimworld are weak and faceless, yet unique. and they're even random.

 

[mondblut]

I am constantly being pestered by some wankers which interrupts work as
I run back to the nearest garrisson to take them out which... feels a bit cheap. So it seems that to progress I need to brush up on my fighting skills.

No, you need to surround it with walls with a lot of turrets around the gate. One straight wall has 4 turret battery, you can easily target your gate with 16 cannons to tear people into shreds, shaped like this: <_> Give outpost people a permanent job to man the guns at lowest priority (they will still drop what they do and run there when the gate is attacked) then forget about any further incursions.

I'm trying to develop crossbow proficiency on my scouts. Started with toothpics and it seems like a good idea, but I'm having trouble finding suitable target practice.

Crossbows (and perception) train whenever an enemy is within firing range yet can't be fired upon due to obstacles and its own indifference. I camped my crossbows next to the New Kralia gate after killing those Kral's chosen who rushed outside at once, and after a couple of hours they were all 70+ crossbows and 90+ perception.

Started with strength training using backpack + carry a guy method, went to 15-20s on most guys and decided to call it a day (progress wasn't bad but felt like too much micromanagement).

Doing it wrong. Put someone to mine ore, place a bunch of ore storages somewhat far away, order your loaded guy to ferry ore to the storages (arrange his inventory so he takes one ore at a time) and to help mine ore when there is none ready at the mining node. If you've got more guys to train, order them to follow your carrier around. Leave them for the night, and bingo, you've got all at 90+ strength and 50+ athletics to boot. The walls with turrets around your operation help, ofc.

Remember, this is a game designed to run mostly when you sleep.

 

[Payd Shell]

stuff

you're ignoring that characters in rimworld are weak and faceless, yet unique. and they're even random.

Leaving aside that both games are vastly different, Rimworld isn't afraid of taking progress away from you by killing your colonists. Even your fully decked out super soldier can get a free lobotomy via a bullet to the brain. Your pawns also have relationships with other pawns, your super star surgeon might have a mother that's an asthmatic alcoholic and a demented pyromaniac to boot, forcing you to carefully consider your options since you have to either deal with severe mood penalties or your base burning to the ground. Also combat isn't the most important part in Rimworld (and arguably the weakest, but I digress), there's loads of other things your pawns need to do on a daily basis to keep everything running. All the random events keep things interesting because you constantly have to tweak what your pawns are doing. Ressources aren't infinite and most of the time trading is an investment, you either have to wait for caravans / trade ships or make a caravan yourself, which is always a risky endeavour since your caravan might get ambushed or your base might get attacked while half your colony is currently travelling. Rimworld isn't a perfect game, but it's much deeper than Kenshi is. As such, recruiting a good pawn for your colony is vastly different from recruiting someone with high stats in Kenshi.

For all the time the devs spent on developing Kenshi, they were cutting corners left, right and center. They never improved upon the core gameplay, which means that mods will have a hard time fixing it. It's the same deal with Skyrim or other games that prioritize meaningless filler content, or fluff, if you will, instead of crafting a solid foundation first. Mods can easily add upon, but it's very hard to fix things that are fundamentally broken or badly designed. Kenshi doesn't respect the players time in the least, it's all a mere stat treadmill from the start. As such, experienced players use loopholes to train up everyone. Which is usually the point where you start asking yourself why you're doing all this shit in the first place since sitting in your base for hours on end to see the numbers go up isn't very engaging gameplay. Again, there's no reason for Kenshi to be so time intensive other than that there's nothing else to do. Using MMORPG mechanics in a single player game isn't a very smart idea. At least MMOs have the excuse that they need to keep people playing it. Kenshi however, you could play through that game in one tenth of the time you'd normally need and wouldn't miss a thing.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

so you're saying "rimworld is the better game, stop trying to improve something else".
intreadasting.

 

[Zanzoken]

For all the time the devs spent on developing Kenshi, they were cutting corners left, right and center. They never improved upon the core gameplay, which means that mods will have a hard time fixing it. It's the same deal with Skyrim or other games that prioritize meaningless filler content, or fluff, if you will, instead of crafting a solid foundation first. Mods can easily add upon, but it's very hard to fix things that are fundamentally broken or badly designed. Kenshi doesn't respect the players time in the least, it's all a mere stat treadmill from the start. As such, experienced players use loopholes to train up everyone. Which is usually the point where you start asking yourself why you're doing all this shit in the first place since sitting in your base for hours on end to see the numbers go up isn't very engaging gameplay. Again, there's no reason for Kenshi to be so time intensive other than that there's nothing else to do. Using MMORPG mechanics in a single player game isn't a very smart idea. At least MMOs have the excuse that they need to keep people playing it. Kenshi however, you could play through that game in one tenth of the time you'd normally need and wouldn't miss a thing.

Solid analysis. I haven't played in a few weeks due to life events and although I'd like to finish up my Waifu playthrough, I feel pretty unmotivated to do so. I have gotten 300 hours out of the game so I can't complain, but I think a significant percentage of that time may have been consumed by autism stimulation, as opposed to engaging gameplay.

I think Kenshi is an important case study for the genre. I love that it doesn't railroad you along scripted questlines like in traditional RPGs, but the question is -- when you take those quests away what do you put in their place? I think the dev's answer to that was basebuilding, which unfortunately just isn't that fun. And on top of that, basebuilding actually plays away from the game's biggest strengths. The world of Kenshi is expansive, mysterious, and intriguing -- why would the dev want the player to be parked somewhere instead of exploring?

Still, there's a blueprint for a really good RPG here, and some good lessons to be learned. Whatever its faults the game is in my top 10 for sure, and considering it has sold a lot better than any of us probably would've guessed it could, maybe we'll get a sequel.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Kenshi was desperately in need of structure for its mid-game. At the beginning, it's a struggle to survive in a harsh environment while gradually learning the game mechanics and acquiring a larger party. At the higher end of combat stats and equipment, there's a lot of fun to be had in exploring the varied zones and ancient ruins, especially piecing together some of the background lore. In between, the game offers base-building and grinding, when it should have instead provided the player opportunities to engage in directed warfare, for the purpose of expanding and/or destroying particular societies. For example, it could have offered ways to fight the cannibals such that the extent of their territory was gradually reduced and replaced instead by, depending on the player's relations, either the Deadcats or the Holy Nation. There's a bit of that in the game, but there could have been far more such options, with the game also providing the player with more feedback and direction.

 

[Tovias]

This shrieking bandits rework mod is absolutely amazing, having a blast watching these weird mother fuckers wipe out cannibal tribes.

Spoiler

There's a bit of that in the game, but there could have been far more such options, with the game also providing the player with more feedback and direction.

It breaks my heart but Kenshi will forever feel like an unfinished game with unlimited potential, or well I guess it's quite limited thanks to the engine. I am sure the devs are dead tired of Kenshi after 12 years of development but I'd pay full price for a Kenshi remaster just so it doesn't melt my PC while loading Blackscratch. Also, regarding the cannibal stuff, in case you are not familiar with it, there is a mod called Reactive World that makes their interaction more interesting.

 

[Zanzoken]

I wonder if they'd be better off using a third-party engine for a sequel. I don't know a lot about game dev but I would assume creating an engine from scratch is a major effort for a small team.

 

[Saduj]

So it looks like Flats Lagoon is going to be destroyed in my game. Western Hive caravan somehow got into a fight with the Tech Hunter guards. Tech Hunters won at first. But what happens is another caravan shows up, then previously defeated Hivers wake up and start fighting again. And new caravan joins in. Even their animals. Nomads also seem to help the Hivers. At first, I tried to help the Tech Hunters but inevitably one of my guys hits a Hiver who the tech hunters don't consider hostile yet and that almost immediately turns the Tech Hunters hostile towards me. I tried reloading a save that was made shortly after the fight broke out. Just ran out before too much damage could be done. Returned several days in game time later - situation is only worse. Innkeeper seems to be missing. When I left, the place was full of Hivers, some not even aggro'd yet, and any Tech Hunter not in a building was knocked out.

This pisses me off because I refuse to build a base and the Tech Hunters are one of the only factions I don't plan on going to war against. Although, I have the sneaking suspicion that going hostile towards UC probably makes visiting Tech Hunter locations impossible anyway. Haven't tested that yet though.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

This pisses me off because I refuse to build a base and the Tech Hunters are one of the only factions I don't plan on going to war against. Although, I have the sneaking suspicion that going hostile towards UC probably makes visiting Tech Hunter locations impossible anyway. Haven't tested that yet though.

The Tech Hunters are linked to the Machinists of World's End but have no connection whatsoever with the United Cities. Not sure where you got this idea.

 

[Saduj]

The Tech Hunters are linked to the Machinists of World's End but have no connection whatsoever with the United Cities. Not sure where you got this idea.

The in-game map interface lists United Cities under Residents of Flats Lagoon. Most UC cities list Tech Hunters as residents. I assumed, incorrectly, that Black Scratch must have a UC presence given the location. I know that generally if some scrub faction like Manhanters or City Heroes attack me in a city, I can kill them so long as they swung first. But I wasn't sure what would happen if I get attacked by a UC aligned NPC in a Tech Hunter city, particularly if they are a static NPC.

If you're saying it doesn't matter, I believe you but that is where the idea came from.

Edit: And in any case, it is still to have one of the only somewhat unique cities in the game destroyed by bugs. (see what I did there?)

 

[Delterius]

i was passing by a slaver town

there was this guy screaming at his slave because the slave is mute

turns out he had cut the tongue

and interpreted it as the slave's fault

so I bought the slave and freed him and started travelling

I thought that he'd be my faithful squire

but then I was overwhelmed by an anarcho slaveo monarchist patrol of 'reavers'

they killed my baby boy

so I spent about 1 hour wiping them out by leading skeleton bandits to their lair and picking loners apart with my trusty holy sword

 

[polo]

So i thought i was very smart when i got the peeler machine technology. It turns out the ones you build wont increase toughness.

 

[Delterius]

So i thought i was very smart when i got the peeler machine technology. It turns out the ones you build wont increase toughness.

yes i grinded combat stats in some acid rain zones and had hopes that it would increase toughness

no such luck unfortunately

 

[Black Angel]

I've been watching this guy's videos for his Mount&Blade content, and now he uploaded this. Shit, March can't come soon enough so I could finally spend some money again to buy games

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Go watch my Kenshi Let's Play u fuck. Search J Dumont Kenshi.

 

[Delterius]

Was planning for a Slave start where I spend a couple of days at rebirth, being worked to death at day and sneaking out of the cell to get better food // only to eventually have the two stealthy thieves escape. Am I supposed to start the game as an [Escaped Slave] in the middle of Rebirth or is this a bug? No biggie, but still kinda weird.

EDIT: nevermind im retadred

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

couple of days? try a month and get out of there as a serious person.

 

[Delterius]

couple of days? try a month and get out of there as a serious person.

That's the plan now.

Fun fact, if you enter stealth while imprisoned you can extremely fast as the game thinks you are moving, in stealth, close to that guard next to the cage.

Level 90 in 6 days.

It got boring and I decided to stop doing that.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

base building kills the game.
i've restarted the game countless times now, every time trying to put together a good team which makes sense, which works, with whom i could larp my silly stories, and every time this ends when i settle in a city and start researching. then i keep sitting on my thumb, getting rich by raiding a single caravan (even with a mod which slashes /10 the money earned, after all all i need is to set shop and wait), then i train a bit, recruit more people, train them, look for some fat caravan, raid it, do it two or three more times max, find a nice place, settle for something which doesn't look too much like ass, start building and then i need more and more people to automate jobs, more and more to man turrets, and suddenly i'm self sufficient, inexpugnable and don't need adventures anymore.
if only kenshi had had mount & blade's same power structure it'd had been much much better, "settling means war with all the factions", but still it'd probably be just a matter of researching longer and accumulating more before building your first walls.

what would help, in your opinion?

 

[Delterius]

what would help, in your opinion?

tbh, not settling at all

explore the world, find the lore do whatever you want and get all equips from drops and special places

its more than enough, really

don't engage with parts of the game you dislike

 

[Tovias]

Spoiler

 

[Delterius]

Ok, I read somewhere on Steam forums that different bandits are supposed to loot different things. Some just want food and medkits, others might rob you blind. But I don't think its happening unless I get enslaved and in that case they'll still let you keep your backpack. Discussions on this issue date from 2017. Does anyone know of a mod/fix? After all, bandits robbing you blind is supposed to be an advanced option.