KickStarter Mage's Initiation - A Classic Sierra-style Adventure/RPG

[Blackthorne]

In the sequel?

Haha, I don't know about them, but my hope with Quest for Infamy was that the sales from QFI could fund a sequel. That didn't really happen the way I planned! I did, and do, have a story and game doc written for a sequel, but I don't know if I'll ever get to produce it.

 

[fantadomat]

In the sequel?

Haha, I don't know about them, but my hope with Quest for Infamy was that the sales from QFI could fund a sequel. That didn't really happen the way I planned! I did, and do, have a story and game doc written for a sequel, but I don't know if I'll ever get to produce it.

That is really sad news for me. QFI is maybe my favourite adventure game in the last 20ish years. It is the only one i replayed. How much does it end up costing making such a game,if not a trade secret?

 

[Blackthorne]

I mean, it varies. In terms of producing video games, we could do it on the cheap and have a decent game. But it'd probably be between $100,000-$150,000 minimum. And that's with people like me not taking a salary, etc. It's to pay artists, animators, music & sound, mostly. Paying for some programmers and specialized coders. I think I could do QFI2 rather quickly too, though, because I've literally had years to do an outline, layout what assets I'd need created, etc. But those quotes are just quick figures off the top of my head.

 

[fantadomat]

I mean, it varies. In terms of producing video games, we could do it on the cheap and have a decent game. But it'd probably be between $100,000-$150,000 minimum. And that's with people like me not taking a salary, etc. It's to pay artists, animators, music & sound, mostly. Paying for some programmers and specialized coders. I think I could do QFI2 rather quickly too, though, because I've literally had years to do an outline, layout what assets I'd need created, etc. But those quotes are just quick figures off the top of my head.

Thanks for the info mate,it was very informative.

 

[Blackthorne]

Thanks for the info mate,it was very informative.

I wish it could be more. There's a lot of factors. But that's just a bare bones idea off the top of my head. It's not really a sustaiable model though, because we'll never sell near enough copies to break even. I honestly wish I was just that stupid kind of rich where I could lose $100,000 and not give a shit as long as I'm having fun.

I wonder where Himalaya is gonna go after this and how well this game does for them. As much as I like it and enjoy it, I know that a 10 year development cycle for a game like this isn't really feasible. Taking two years working full time to develop QFI was pushing it for me. I think I could do it in a year for the sequel, working full time. The reason QFI: Roehm to Ruin has taken so long is that I've done it in my spare time, and I'm not pushing hard. Also, all the health problems that were exacerbated in the past two years have added to that. It stinks because I really would like more games like ours and Mage's out there. I just don't think the "scene" can hold up 10 year dev times... even if point and click graphical adventures are dated already.

 

[fantadomat]

Thanks for the info mate,it was very informative.

I wish it could be more. There's a lot of factors. But that's just a bare bones idea off the top of my head. It's not really a sustaiable model though, because we'll never sell near enough copies to break even. I honestly wish I was just that stupid kind of rich where I could lose $100,000 and not give a shit as long as I'm having fun.

I wonder where Himalaya is gonna go after this and how well this game does for them. As much as I like it and enjoy it, I know that a 10 year development cycle for a game like this isn't really feasible. Taking two years working full time to develop QFI was pushing it for me. I think I could do it in a year for the sequel, working full time. The reason QFI: Roehm to Ruin has taken so long is that I've done it in my spare time, and I'm not pushing hard. Also, all the health problems that were exacerbated in the past two years have added to that. It stinks because I really would like more games like ours and Mage's out there. I just don't think the "scene" can hold up 10 year dev times... even if point and click graphical adventures are dated already.

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

 

[Blackthorne]

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

Yeah. That's the sad reality of it. At least from the business stand point. If you can let that go, and do it as a hobby on the side for maybe a small amount of extra cash, it's not so bad. That's where I'm at now. Though I do like working on my games way more than anything else I'd do!!

 

[MRY]

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

Dave does really well for himself. I think the key is to publish as well as develop because then you can use the profits off other people's hobbies to pay for yourself. People who call that kind of capitalism parasitic couldn't be more wrong, by the way -- WEG's publishing arm enabled all of those games to get made and successfully released. It's almost like a hobbyist workers' collective with a well-paid administrator.

 

[fantadomat]

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

Dave does really well for himself. I think the key is to publish as well as develop because then you can use the profits off other people's hobbies to pay for yourself. People who call that kind of capitalism parasitic couldn't be more wrong, by the way -- WEG's publishing arm enabled all of those games to get made and successfully released. It's almost like a hobbyist workers' collective with a well-paid administrator.

I agree,sadly the quality of their last few games have gone down.

 

[V_K]

I hope the game does well -- and I hope someday to give it a go. I'm a little confused over the effusive praise for the backgrounds because, to me at least, they don't look that great -- the perspective, scale, and lighting all seems a little dodgy, and I think they compare unfavorably to comparable scenes in QfI.

E.g.:

Spoiler

MI is obviously higher resolution, and the line work is nice, but the coloring, lighting, etc. all seems a bit worse. Maybe my taste is off, though.

Come to think of it, it's not exactly fair to compare one of the better scenes in QfI (which was actually supposed to represent a breathtaking view) with a run off the mill screen from MI. QfI has its fair share of corny perspectives and cheesy colors as well, especially in the town department. I think a more comparable scene from MI would be this one:

Spoiler

 

[Berekän]

Random thought after watching that image again.

Spoiler

What even is the point of the teleporter on the lake? I played as a water mage so I don't know if it's any different for other houses (I doubt it) but you get the teleport spell after completing the priestess quest on the lake and you have absolutely no reason to go back there, did I miss anything or is it just badly thought-out?

 

[V_K]

Random thought after watching that image again.

Spoiler

What even is the point of the teleporter on the lake? I played as a water mage so I don't know if it's any different for other houses (I doubt it) but you get the teleport spell after completing the priestess quest on the lake and you have absolutely no reason to go back there, did I miss anything or is it just badly thought-out?

Spoiler

I think it's just that over 10 years the plot details got rewritten several times - you can find some screenshots on google that didn't make it into the final game for example. So it might be that at some point you were supposed to return there - or maybe you got the teleport earlier - and when it changed it was too late to redo the artwork.

 

[MRY]

In 2012, I was certain that all three of QFI, MI, and Hero-U would be runaway successes. It's baffling to me that all three wound up facing such headwinds.

 

[Infinitron]

In 2012, I was certain that all three of QFI, MI, and Hero-U would be runaway successes. It's baffling to me that all three wound up facing such headwinds.

lol, they and the entire indie gaming scene. Or do you mean that they underperformed even relative to the standard set by the "Indiepocalypse"?

 

[MRY]

Hero-U definitely -- it's a high-budget title produced by celebrity developers. I would've expected it to do at least as well as, say, Unavowed, a game made on 1/5 (1/10?) the budget. Dave's a celebrity, but not nearly so much as the Coles. Mage's Initiation, too -- I would've expected it to do at least as well as, say, Lamplight City, a game made on a much smaller budget that didn't have a larger day-one player base built in via the Kickstarter. Also, QFG-likes should have more simultaneous players (since the games last longer), but MI's peak players was 25% below Lamplight City's. (By comparison, QFI launched at 250% the players as A Golden Wake.)

 

[fantadomat]

Hero-U definitely -- it's a high-budget title produced by celebrity developers. I would've expected it to do at least as well as, say, Unavowed, a game made on 1/5 (1/10?) the budget. Dave's a celebrity, but not nearly so much as the Coles. Mage's Initiation, too -- I would've expected it to do at least as well as, say, Lamplight City, a game made on a much smaller budget that didn't have a larger day-one player base built in via the Kickstarter. Also, QFG-likes should have more simultaneous players (since the games last longer), but MI's peak players was 25% below Lamplight City's. (By comparison, QFI launched at 250% the players as A Golden Wake.)

Well that is why they flopped,poor management and long developing cycle. People loose interest fast,also kickstarter is no different than preorder. You should develop with the presumption that you had made most of the profits after the kickstarter,you can't expect big sales after the release,especially in such niche genre.

. Dave's a celebrity, but not nearly so much as the Coles.

Not really,they were legends 20 years ago. Most of their fans have grown up old by now and don't really care about video games. While i don't like Dave because of his "views",he is a lot more well known than them. He build his brand by pumping up good/decent adventure games for a decade now. Another thing is that they were co=creators and not the creators. As you well know games are created by teams,you can't just take part of the team and expect them to deliver the same level. Both herou and MI are not that good anyway,in a niche genre people could see such things.


By the way,is Lamplight city any good,what is it about?

 

[MRY]

I haven't played it.

I think you're wrong about the Coles, unless you think Dave would also have been able to raise over half a million dollars on Kickstarter based simply on his name. (I don't think he could have come close.) All major and niche gaming sites were eager to cover their game, old timey gamers represent a core demographic in adventure games today, and those who didn't grow up on QFG still know it well (and probably played it on GOG, where it is the #1 rated adventure game, or Steam). That's why merely invoking the QFG name was enough to get a total of $200k on Kickstarter for QFI and MI. The Coles are a really big deal, or were until Hero-U hit its troubles, they just aren't as good at getting themselves out there as Dave.

 

[fantadomat]

I haven't played it.

I think you're wrong about the Coles, unless you think Dave would also have been able to raise over half a million dollars on Kickstarter based simply on his name. (I don't think he could have come close.) All major and niche gaming sites were eager to cover their game, old timey gamers represent a core demographic in adventure games today, and those who didn't grow up on QFG still know it well (and probably played it on GOG, where it is the #1 rated adventure game, or Steam). That's why merely invoking the QFG name was enough to get a total of $200k on Kickstarter for QFI and MI. The Coles are a really big deal, or were until Hero-U hit its troubles, they just aren't as good at getting themselves out there as Dave.

Meh,you assume that people know their names because you know them. I know who those people are because of the discussion on the codex. A year ago i didn't know their name nor cared about them. I knew wadjed eye for a company making good adventure games and that is why bought most of their games. Not everyone that loves those games knows the names of all the developers behind them,most people don't really care about that shit,they do care about the track record of the company. As for the 1million,well it was during the kickstarted fad,people threw money at games because somebody on youtube told them to. Also they fucking squandered them,with this much money you could make 5-10 good games,yet they delivered pretty mediocre and grindy one. The big draw for people was the qfg name and not their own. It is pretty sad that the only actual qfg like game was qfi,the other two decided to be "original" and "artistic". Which is ok,if it wasn't marketed on the qfg laurels. You couldn't even steal shit houses and were overly moralistic!

 

[visions]

I think fantadomat is correct in regards to the fact that most people who play computer games don't know game developers by name (except for really big names like Carmack and Romero). Codexers know people like the Coles since codexers are either old or weirdos who play and research games that came out when they were toddlers. I mean, the Coles made their important work around 25 to 30 years ago. I'm guessing most people from way back then have moved on long ago. And many people who discovered QfG from abandonware sites or GOG probably have other things to do with their time than research which people developed which old game.

I've met people who regard themselves as non-casual gamers, yet can't distinguish between publishers and developers, didn't know that KOTOR 2 and NWN 2 were not developed by Bioware etc. One of my friends is a huge HoMM 3 fan, to the extent that he ironmanned all maps in the Shadow of Death campaign on Impossible, trying some scenarios as many as 20 times. Yet if I'd ask him about Jon Van Caneghem, he'd probably reply "who the fuck is that". I'd guess most people really do not give a shit. Hell, outside of the Codex, many people think 3DO developed the HoMM games.

In my experience, people start a game, see some kind of logo, think this company made the game, and don't really care beyond that point. I'd guess that if you know who the Coles are, it's either because you read gaming mags 25-30 years ago or you're a weirdo who researchers games that came out when you were a toddler, or you hang out on niche websites like RPG Codex and have acquired the knowledge by osmosis.

 

[Delterius]

Guys, does it really matter just how famous the Coles really are? If they get coverage from literally every single outlet on the planet, most people would just go 'ah its one of those cute/pretty point and click escape games i'll never play' and move on to the next article.

I myself was mostly hoping they wouldn't ruin their own lives by mortgage.

 

[fantadomat]

I myself was mostly hoping they wouldn't ruin their own lives by mortgage.

Well that is on them really,they managed to squander huge amount of money. I have no idea what they did with it tho.

 

[Blackthorne]

Long development cycle killed a lot of excitement and buzz. People were way more excited for this stuff 5-6 years ago. The goodwill wore out.

 

[bertram_tung]

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

Dave does really well for himself. I think the key is to publish as well as develop because then you can use the profits off other people's hobbies to pay for yourself. People who call that kind of capitalism parasitic couldn't be more wrong, by the way -- WEG's publishing arm enabled all of those games to get made and successfully released. It's almost like a hobbyist workers' collective with a well-paid administrator.

I agree,sadly the quality of their last few games have gone down.

Yes they haven't been as good as some of their classics (although they are still high quality in my opinion) but more to the point they were successful which shows you can still make money off adventure games with the right skills and business infrastructure.

I also have a good feeling that Wormwood's Strangeland will be successful as well. Primordia was a hit as far as this scene goes, and I think Wormwood and WEG make a great team.

 

[fantadomat]

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

Dave does really well for himself. I think the key is to publish as well as develop because then you can use the profits off other people's hobbies to pay for yourself. People who call that kind of capitalism parasitic couldn't be more wrong, by the way -- WEG's publishing arm enabled all of those games to get made and successfully released. It's almost like a hobbyist workers' collective with a well-paid administrator.

I agree,sadly the quality of their last few games have gone down.

Yes they haven't been as good as some of their classics (although they are still high quality in my opinion) but more to the point they were successful which shows you can still make money off adventure games with the right skills and business infrastructure.

I also have a good feeling that Wormwood's Strangeland will be successful as well. Primordia was a hit as far as this scene goes, and I think Wormwood and WEG make a great team.

I personally don't get hyped for games in development,don't even know what is made. Didn't know about hero-u and this one until they came out. I just play the games when they come out and then judge them.I also find interesting reading their history here on the codex,MRY does a good job as info dispenser .

 

[bertram_tung]

At this point adventure games should be made with the idea of breaking even or loosing money. There is not enough of people that buy such games. The best option is to be done as a hobby rather than business.

Dave does really well for himself. I think the key is to publish as well as develop because then you can use the profits off other people's hobbies to pay for yourself. People who call that kind of capitalism parasitic couldn't be more wrong, by the way -- WEG's publishing arm enabled all of those games to get made and successfully released. It's almost like a hobbyist workers' collective with a well-paid administrator.

I agree,sadly the quality of their last few games have gone down.

Yes they haven't been as good as some of their classics (although they are still high quality in my opinion) but more to the point they were successful which shows you can still make money off adventure games with the right skills and business infrastructure.

I also have a good feeling that Wormwood's Strangeland will be successful as well. Primordia was a hit as far as this scene goes, and I think Wormwood and WEG make a great team.

I personally don't get hyped for games in development,don't even know what is made. Didn't know about hero-u and this one until they came out. I just play the games when they come out and then judge them.I also find interesting reading their history here on the codex,MRY does a good job as info dispenser .

hero-u makes you play as a genderless he-she. it's visually unappealing to look at so i haven't played it