Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Fucking ToEE, how does it work

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,298
Fair enough.

Btw does combat expertise and and combat reflexes negate each other as passive skill modifier or they should be activated in combat?
They do different things.

Combat Expertise gives you AC in exchange for base attack bonus. This needs to be activated.
Combat Reflexes gives you attacks of opportunities per round equal to your Dex modifier (it is usually 1 per round only). This is passive.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
Oh, sorry, my mistake. I actually meant the reckless offense instead of combat reflexes. They seem to do the straight opposite of each other. So they are both activated situationally i guess, which makes them both useful if taken. I wonder if reckless offense works on ranged attacks too. Seems like a good feat for your pure archer given how you would keep him out of range from heavy damage most of the time.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,509
Location
The Present
Reckless Offensive cannot be used for ranged attacks. It can be good for use with reach weapons though. It still pales compared to Combat Reflexes, which is one of the best feats you can get for your fighters. I had two fighter/rogues with pole-arms, and they absolutely decimated the field. This is especially true when you enlarge them. If anything moves, it gets tripped and murdered.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
Yeah, that was obvious and i have that on my glaive wielding half-orc barbarian-fighter with cleve. Seems that these long reach weapons and AoO feats are seriously OP in comparison to other if people give them even to rogues. I have a big party of 8 home made chars so i'm trying not to exploit this too much. The size of the party will compensate for that i think.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Yeah, reach weapons are absolutely insane in this game. Even moreso when you consider Longspears, I believe, are 'simple' weapons and can even be used by Clerics. Your primary buffer / healer gets a free 1 - 2 attacks per round from a relatively safe position behind the tank. Some of the Reach weapons, like Glaives, even get x3 crit damage which is even more stupid.

If you use the 'Giant Form' oversight, which essentially turns all two-handers into one handed weapons....yeah, it's laughable. Even your MT can use a reach weapon with a Tower Shield +3 equipped. I don't play D&D, so I'm not sure if they went 100% faithful to the numbers here, but I'm sure smallish changes could have been made in the name of balance, like a small deadzone to reach weapons or something.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
When i looked about various shit about toee in recent days i read on some forum (probably Co8) that in pnp 3.5 reach weapons should have a dead zone of 5 feet so your reach weapon fighter would always have to make a step back if from a target that has closed in to be able to attack it, but Troyka ignored this rule thus making reach weapons a go to for every powergamer. Imagine there are other penalties for reach weapon wieelding chars in pnp rules that offset their advantages.
rating_sawyer.gif


One more question. Explain to me how exactly the armor penalties work. I guess the char screen doesn't show DEX penalties to wearing heavy armor or does it? Is the +x in front of char the stat bonus that would be reduced by armor? Can i put the elven chainmail that you get from hill giant encounter on dex 17 ranger and not have pen? He has +3 in front of DEX so i guess it would become less if the armor was hindrance.
What is the "armor check" and do casters really suffer from the "spell failure x%" much, when wearing armor that has them?
Sorry for being annoying. I just love thing explained to me by lovely Codex bros. Happy nu shit year.
love.png
 
Last edited:

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
One more question. Explain to me how exactly the armor penalties work. I guess the char screen doesn't show DEX penalties to wearing heavy armor or does it? Is the +x in front of char the stat bonus that would be reduced by armor?
You get an AC bonus equivalent to your Dex Bonus. Heavy armor puts a cap on how much of it applies to your AC while wearing it. So a Plate Mail with 8 AC and +2 Maximum Dex Bonus would grant the same AC as an Elven Chainmail with 6 AC and +4 Maximum Dex Bonus to a character with 18 - 19 Dexterity (these values correlate a +4 Dex bonus, 20 is when it bumps to +5), since this character would get his full Dex bonus and 6 AC from the Elven Chainmail, but only 2 of his 4 AC bonus from the Plate.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
Does the same apply to skills that rely on DEX and archer or rogue type would get worse at archery or sneak attacks in his rolls?
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,328
Location
Flowery Land
There's also ACP (Armor Check Penalty), which reduces the result of skills if you wear it. For the most part you can ignore it, since the skills it applies to are either utterly pointless in ToEE (hide+move silently, sleight of hand) or only worth it on a single character that will use light armor anyways (open lock). If you wear armor you aren't proficient in the penalty applies to most rolls like attack (though an ACP of zero is a penalty of zero regardless of profiency). May also mean the Arcane Spell Failure chance, which non-Bard, non-Assassin (if using Temple +) arcane casters wearing it get as a percent to fail their spell checks.

Note Co8 adds at least one suit of armor with 0 ACP and 0 ASF (Bondleaf Ivy) and Temple+ adds the Twilight enhancement (-10% ASF. Stick it on a Mithral Shirt and a wizard/sorcerer can wear it without penalty).
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,298
There is a +1 Holy Spiked Chain in the game without you having to make it. Just make a chaingun tripper.
 

TOUGH GUY

Educated
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
63
It took me until yesterday to finally install, launch, and actually start playing ToEE. The former two I had done many times over the years. The latter – never. What a fool I had been all this time. And what a great time I am having now!

And many thanks to the ever-helpful Lilura for all those wonderful retrospectives without which I would perhaps not be having all this fun.
 
Last edited:

Wolfe

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
432
I've just started playing this, is there anything like a combat log in-game? How can I see attack rolls or detailed information about the enemies?
 
Last edited:

Wolfe

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
432
The spell DC of my Wizard's Hideous Laughter is 14 for some reason, when by my calculation it ought to be 18. 10 (base) + 4 (18 INT) + 2 (spell level) + 2 (Enchantment spell focus + greater spell focus). Am I missing something here?
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,298
The spell DC of my Wizard's Hideous Laughter is 14 for some reason, when by my calculation it ought to be 18. 10 (base) + 4 (18 INT) + 2 (spell level) + 2 (Enchantment spell focus + greater spell focus). Am I missing something here?
You are correct. However, there is a -4 penalty to the DC if the target is not the same racial type as the caster (which means all non-humanoids as all PCs are humanoids in the game, IIRC). Who were you trying to cast it on?
 

Wolfe

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
432
I love everything about the combat and the engine in this game. They're so good that I can tolerate the mindnumbingly boring Hommlet, and I thought I was a storyfag. Tastes can change, I suppose.

It took me ages to get to lvl 3 because I couldn't get past a couple of fights in the moathouse (bugbears, guardsmen) and couldn't progress further into the Hommlet quests because of low diplomacy. I made the mistake of rolling an Aasimar Paladin (Temple+ race) which starts at an effective level of 2, so 2000 exp is required for the first level-up. I eventually got further by farming a couple of random encounters and then the world was at my fingertips. The guardsmen fight was particularly fun considering I now had access to level 2 spells. Charm Person is also amazing, used it on two sergeants and that distracted around 5 crossbowmen for a few rounds while my enlarged melees were cleaving everything down. It's insane how much of a difference a couple of buffs and disables make.

Onto Nulb now, having wrapped everything up in Hommlet and the surroundings.
 
Last edited:

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,386
Location
Copenhagen
Great Cleave is hilarious in ToEE, you can leave little flowers of dead goblins all around the game if you get completely surrounded by them, since the game is tile-based and they leave perfectly synchronized corpses (their feet will connect the whole way around)
 

Thorsson

Novice
Joined
Dec 14, 2017
Messages
13
Just want to note that Druid & Bard helped a lot early on in my current run through - Druid has Entangle plus animals galore and the Bard can get several uses of Grease on the fly at level 2, plus his Inspire Courage helps just about everyone.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,298
I love everything about the combat and the engine in this game. They're so good that I can tolerate the mindnumbingly boring Hommlet, and I thought I was a storyfag. Tastes can change, I suppose.

It took me ages to get to lvl 3 because I couldn't get past a couple of fights in the moathouse (bugbears, guardsmen) and couldn't progress further into the Hommlet quests because of low diplomacy. I made the mistake of rolling an Aasimar Paladin (Temple+ race) which starts at an effective level of 2, so 2000 exp is required for the first level-up. I eventually got further by farming a couple of random encounters and then the world was at my fingertips. The guardsmen fight was particularly fun considering I now had access to level 2 spells. Charm Person is also amazing, used it on two sergeants and that distracted around 5 crossbowmen for a few rounds while my enlarged melees were cleaving everything down. It's insane how much of a difference a couple of buffs and disables make.

Onto Nulb now, having wrapped everything up in Hommlet and the surroundings.
Here's a tip for people playing the game again:

Keep travelling between Homlett and the grove where you kill the spiders for the lumberjack and do random encounters until you are level 3. Then complete all the quests in Hommlet and then go to the moathouse. You really want Fireball before you get there. I managed to nail the giant with the bear at Emerys Meadow before I went to the moathouse with a Tasha's and a Web.
 

Wolfe

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
432
I actually might play this again at some point (most likely not straight away, got tons of other RPGs in the backlog). I think Fireball would've trivialised the place, without it tons of CC and careful positioning were needed and that made it quite fun. For the giant I managed to pull off two Hideous Laughter which kept him down for the entirety of the fight, the bear was more troublesome because it could do two or three attacks per round and had cleave.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom