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Why you no likie magic?

Joined
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Why is it that every RPG has gimped magic that is boring an uninspired? What happened to commanding reality into doing the impossible? Nearly 20 years ago we had a game that let us manipulate time, clone, cloak, toss about metaphysical death, and all manner of arcane shenanigans...yet nothing that has come out even compares. Even games that are exclusively about spell casting, like the Magicka series, hardly even come close. What's the deal? Have the Sawyers inherited the earth?
 
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What fucking sense is it to create a world in which magic exists, allow the player to utilize spell casting classes, yet deny the player the utility and splendor of magic? Booooo! Hissss!
 
Joined
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What fucking sense is it to create a world in which magic exists, allow the player to utilize spell casting classes, yet deny the player the utility and splendor of magic? Booooo! Hissss!
Coding constraints. Not only does proper magic break the balance, it also breaks the game unless it is a core feature with the rest of the game world built around it.

The simple answer is to relegate magic to backstory and cut-scenes. Keep magic magical.
 

Yosharian

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Because there are few developers with vision and talent, and those that have it don't have the money because big publishers are only interested in marketing to the lowest common denominator.

There's a reason one of the biggest RPG developers in the world just produced a mindless looter shooter game for one of the biggest publishers in the world.
 

Bigg Boss

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Sep 23, 2012
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What fucking sense is it to create a world in which magic exists, allow the player to utilize spell casting classes, yet deny the player the utility and splendor of magic? Booooo! Hissss!

It would be easier with isometric, but all of these fags wants to make ultra real first person shooters.
 

Yosharian

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What fucking sense is it to create a world in which magic exists, allow the player to utilize spell casting classes, yet deny the player the utility and splendor of magic? Booooo! Hissss!

It would be easier with isometric, but all of these fags wants to make ultra real first person shooters.
There's no reason you can't make an FPS with actual interesting mechanics, even magic spells.

It's not the genre that's the problem, it's the mediocre games.
 

Beastro

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May 11, 2015
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The issue I find with most implement magic is the target system attached to it. The result is magic users stand around casting shit at one another, only running around to avoid meleers or to make use of terrain if it impedes targeting.

Dealing with all of that in EQ PVP burned me out and I became a dedicated meleer or hybrid for a long and still am to a good extent.
 

Bigg Boss

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Sep 23, 2012
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What fucking sense is it to create a world in which magic exists, allow the player to utilize spell casting classes, yet deny the player the utility and splendor of magic? Booooo! Hissss!

It would be easier with isometric, but all of these fags wants to make ultra real first person shooters.
There's no reason you can't make an FPS with actual interesting mechanics, even magic spells.

It's not the genre that's the problem, it's the mediocre games.

I'm speaking of full D&D style magic. A player I know designed a spell that made her brothers dick glow green like it was radioactive. Real magic is more than fireballs and stopping time.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Gameplay wise, because of balance of course Not to say that it is a good thing, IE games were fun as hell due to magic being OP in general.

Time bending and time-altering magic are a very specific mechanic as well that such game should be designed bottom up with that idea. Has there been actual gameplay regarding these types of magic? The closest one I know is this RTS game with limited time travel.

Thematic wise, I don't know. I infer that one of the games you were saying is Torment? Once again it is about finding good enough writers willing to explore it I guess, but in general, having all-powerful magic as a plot device is hard to do without being felt "Deus ex machina"-ish which is kinda frowned upon in today's writing.
 

Swigen

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
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Final Fantasy 7 may be right up yore alley. There is TIME magic, there is FIRE magic, and there is even magic that turns you into a TOAD!! If you’re looking for magic that moves into the realm of impossibility then look no further, cuz this game? This game has ULTIMA magic! Some magic can be exponentially more powerful. For example, there’s ICE 1, ICE 2, and I bet yore wondering “where does it end?!”. Well... it ends at ICE 3 so you things don’t get too OP. So as usual the Japanese are ahead of the curve and magic systems in their gaems are alive and well. Take a break from the Western crpg crap and get yourself a jrpg and be happy!!
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
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It comes down to developers thoroughly believing their own vision is far more important than anything else, including whether or not a game is fun.

Reviewers perpetuate the problem by letting a developer get away with absolutely anything if they can somehow justify it through a high level pretentious vision such as "to redefine what games are about"


The simplification of magic, the abandonment of classical story premises, the warping of dialogue and the dramatic decline of creative level design can all be traced back to this "you are just a player, i am a creator" mentality
 
Last edited:

The Great ThunThun*

How DARE you!?
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Pathfinder: Wrath
D&D magic is actually quite flavourful and thematic and can get ridiculously powerful. And the interesting part? It's not evocation light show that is the most dangerous thing. It is the Divination and Conjuration school.

You can totally do that in cRPGs. The real limitation you have to put on mages then is the resource cost. If Magic is "free" then it is overpowered. If it is resource linked, you can tone it down and give the player a choice as to when to use it.
 
Unwanted

Kalin

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Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
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Final Fantasy 7 may be right up yore alley. There is TIME magic, there is FIRE magic, and there is even magic that turns you into a TOAD!! If you’re looking for magic that moves into the realm of impossibility then look no further, cuz this game? This game has ULTIMA magic! Some magic can be exponentially more powerful. For example, there’s ICE 1, ICE 2, and I bet yore wondering “where does it end?!”. Well... it ends at ICE 3 so you things don’t get too OP. So as usual the Japanese are ahead of the curve and magic systems in their gaems are alive and well. Take a break from the Western crpg crap and get yourself a jrpg and be happy!!

:lol::salute:
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
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Wonderland
What happened to commanding reality into doing the impossible? Nearly 20 years ago we had a game that let us manipulate time, clone, cloak, toss about metaphysical death, and all manner of arcane shenanigans...
From what I've read, the mage classes in Tales of Maj'Eyal can do pretty much all of this and more, even though in terms of visual they don't really show it.

Meanwhile, in terms of pure visual aspect, Dragon's Dogma magics are pretty much second-to-none in my knowledge, even though the spells are nothing close to what you described and only some sort of usual mundane stuff like ice spikes, fireballs, lightning bolts etc etc.
 

Apostle Hand

Liturgist
Batshit Crazy
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Apr 18, 2018
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Inferno
magic in rpgs often lack esoteric aspect.

i believe rpgs could benefit from learning studies of magic from great magicians like fulcaneli, austin osman spare, aleister crowley...
 

Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,191
Magic affecting the world is hard. We're talking about an era in which games dont even feature destructible terrain anymore. Magic beyond "gun, but costs MP" is too much effort to make.
 

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