WARSAW RISING: City of Heroes - turn-based tactical RPG on WW2 Warsaw Uprising - now a free game

[Zboj Lamignat]

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising DLC when?

DLC? They missed a huge opportunity by not making the heroic struggle of Jews against polish oppressors the focus of the main campaign.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Fun fact: a lot of polish freedom fighters were later trying to eliminate the Juice and steal their property.

Fixed.

 

[rzh]

The trailer made me sad for the Poles. Imagine having your country invaded by two superpowers, being a freedom figher against all odds while your countrymen are being slaughtered and 75 years later some twinks mock your legacy with a shitty game with absolutely disgusting art-style that they're promoting by using music made for 16 years old girls.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

The trailer made me sad for the Poles.

Location: Eastern Europe

 

[rzh]

Exactly, I can't usually afford the luxury of feeling bad for a nation with a higher GDP than mine.

 

[Deflowerer]

There should be Katyn prequel DLC to appease all the commie gaming journos!

 

[cruelio]

I'm tearing up. Finally the Warsaw Uprising will have the treatment it deserves: as a Darkest Dungeon rip off.

It's... it's beautiful.... Shed a tear for Polish grandma who fought Nazis by throwing pierogies at them from second floor window (was biggest building in Poland, now biggest barn in Poland).

 

[Darkzone]

The trailer made me sad for the Poles. Imagine having your country invaded by two superpowers, being a freedom figher against all odds while your countrymen are being slaughtered and 75 years later some twinks mock your legacy with a shitty game with absolutely disgusting art-style that they're promoting by using music made for 16 years old girls.

You have forgotten:
To be betrayed over and over again by their "friends" and "allies" and this is still ongoing. Then robbed by every side in this conflict and sold to one of the oppressive superpowers. Then in the end falsely accused of helping in a genocide while going through 2 genocides them self during the war.

Yeah though shit, but that is the life of Poland.

 

[mondblut]

Can I play as Dirlewanger?

 

[Ladonna]

The Poles supped at the table of Czechoslovakia, dining on the corpse. They cannot be painted entirely as innocent martyrs.

They then refused to allow Russian forces entry in the event of a German attack, thus destroying the influence of Litvinov, and allowing the hardliners under Molotov to gain ascendancy in the USSR.

"But the Russians would never have left if they had!!!111!!" Perhaps. But would you think their chances better if they still had a functioning government and armed force? With a probable joining of Rumania and Yugoslavia, (both of whom wilted out or joined the other side after the Molotov-Ribbontrop pact, the fall of France and its outcomes) and the possible joining of other balkan nations? Does anyone here actually believe France would have fallen had Russia entered into the fray alongside Poland in 1939?

The Western Allies were dithering weaklings at the time, but were discussing an alliance on the idea of Russia coming to the assistance of Poland in the event of general war. The flat refusal of Poland to allow this put an end to this idea, and allowed the Germans to jump in with their own pact, ready to be sealed.

There was no third way; either Russia entered as an 'Ally' or as an attacker to grab buffer space against the Germans. Mein Kampf had already set the stage. The Nazis were coming, as per their current bible, and the Poles were slated as something to be removed in that bible.

Ultimately, the Polish people were betrayed by their own military dictatorship.

Cue outrage.

 

[Latro]

i opened this hoping for a JA2/silent storm tactics game

 

[what am i doing]

There was no third way; either Russia entered as an 'Ally' or as an attacker to grab buffer space against the Germans.

Third way: agree to let Germany have the road and the railway through the Danzig corridor they wanted, and don't massacre German civilians.

 

[Black]

don't massacre German civilians.

Yeah, no deal.

 

[Ladonna]

There was no third way; either Russia entered as an 'Ally' or as an attacker to grab buffer space against the Germans.

Third way: agree to let Germany have the road and the railway through the Danzig corridor they wanted, and don't massacre German civilians.

Ah yes, the last minute 'peace proposal'....

"Polish ambassador to Germany, Lipski, at once tried to get in touch with Warsaw, but all means of communication had deliberately been cut. The Polish Government never had an opportunity of considering Hitler’s terms, which were never communicated to them before they were broadcast to the world. Nor were they communicated to the British Government in writing before this broadcast. The German troops were marching into Poland when Hitler, on September 1, issued his proclamation to the German Army."

The lead up to the conflict is interesting reading, and Hitler tried literally everything he could to paint Poland as the bad guys. Unfortunately, many a German Pole, that had been reported in Germany as being massacred/tortured/ castrated/ insert attrocity were hunted down and found, alive and well, by international press members, and were often surprised at the revelations of their 'deaths'.

However, one thing is certain; there never were any 'official' demands proposed to the Polish Government prior. Only icy meetings, veiled threats, doubletalk, and repeated ramping up of tensions through the German press and speeches. The same that was employed with all nations from the Czechs to the Soviets.

If your nation was part of the Mein Kampf programme, then you meant to be, at some stage, eliminated. All the other crap before it was just attempts to soften the western allies, or justify the action for posterity/home audience.

 

[Gondolin]

The Western Allies were dithering weaklings at the time, but were discussing an alliance on the idea of Russia coming to the assistance of Poland in the event of general war. The flat refusal of Poland to allow this put an end to this idea, and allowed the Germans to jump in with their own pact, ready to be sealed.

If I remember correctly, representatives of GB and France met with a Soviet delegation headed by Voroshilov to discuss an alliance against Germany. The talks failed because the Russians

1 - wanted to cross Polish and Romanian territory to make contact with the Germans, regardless of whether the Polish and Romanian governments allowed it or not (invasion);
2 - offered no guarantees that their troops would withdraw from Poland and Romania once the conflict was over (occupation).

Interestingly, the French were ready to accept the Russian demands, destroying their own Cordon Sanitaire to save their asses.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The Poles supped at the table of Czechoslovakia, dining on the corpse. They cannot be painted entirely as innocent martyrs.

They then refused to allow Russian forces entry in the event of a German attack, thus destroying the influence of Litvinov, and allowing the hardliners under Molotov to gain ascendancy in the USSR.

"But the Russians would never have left if they had!!!111!!" Perhaps. But would you think their chances better if they still had a functioning government and armed force? With a probable joining of Rumania and Yugoslavia, (both of whom wilted out or joined the other side after the Molotov-Ribbontrop pact, the fall of France and its outcomes) and the possible joining of other balkan nations? Does anyone here actually believe France would have fallen had Russia entered into the fray alongside Poland in 1939?

The Western Allies were dithering weaklings at the time, but were discussing an alliance on the idea of Russia coming to the assistance of Poland in the event of general war. The flat refusal of Poland to allow this put an end to this idea, and allowed the Germans to jump in with their own pact, ready to be sealed.

There was no third way; either Russia entered as an 'Ally' or as an attacker to grab buffer space against the Germans. Mein Kampf had already set the stage. The Nazis were coming, as per their current bible, and the Poles were slated as something to be removed in that bible.

Ultimately, the Polish people were betrayed by their own military dictatorship.

Cue outrage.

Nice try, but whatever stage was set by Mein Kampf and any anti-"slav" propaganda in Germany was directed solely against the Russians. Poland had a lasting peace treaty with Germany until 1938 iirc, you can even find plenty of archive photos of German and Potato ministers being best buds and going on hunts together at that time. It wasn't until the tardos in charge took Brit and French promises of eternal friendship and protection at face value and cancelled all dealings with Germany that shit hit the fan.

Also lol at the prospects of Poland allowing any cooperation with the Soviets. At that time Poland believed that a war against the Soviet Union was much more likely than with Germany, for a hundred million billion valid reasons too, and even based its entire army building principle on the particularities of the eastern front.

There was a third way, and it was to not believe the eternal Anglo.

 

[Ladonna]

Too much emotion in your reply Roxor, not to mention fallacy.

Yes, the Germans were very good at buttering up and signing treaties. 'Peace for our time' is the most publicised example, but there were many. Now check out what they did with the remnants of Czechoslovakia and Dr Hacha.

They would happily sign treaties promising eternal friendship, then once their latest pet project was completed (in Polands case, the destruction and annexation of Czechoslovakia) turn around and ask for something, or say it was misinterpreted, or say it was all your fault something happened that they made up. Don't ask me, go read history books. Once you are done, come back and tell me all about it.

 

[Ladonna]

The Western Allies were dithering weaklings at the time, but were discussing an alliance on the idea of Russia coming to the assistance of Poland in the event of general war. The flat refusal of Poland to allow this put an end to this idea, and allowed the Germans to jump in with their own pact, ready to be sealed.

If I remember correctly, representatives of GB and France met with a Soviet delegation headed by Voroshilov to discuss an alliance against Germany. The talks failed because the Russians

1 - wanted to cross Polish and Romanian territory to make contact with the Germans, regardless of whether the Polish and Romanian governments allowed it or not (invasion);
2 - offered no guarantees that their troops would withdraw from Poland and Romania once the conflict was over (occupation).

Interestingly, the French were ready to accept the Russian demands, destroying their own Cordon Sanitaire to save their asses.

The talks had not reached any of those conclusions. The Russians were DESPERATE for the alliance, even attempting to impress the allies with the amount of divisions they could put in the field. The allies were unsure of how good the soviets were, and the Poles were flatly refusing to have anything to do with the Russians, guarantee or no. Molotov, a much more hard headed, Stalinist figure, was given the foreign ministry position after Litvinov failed to get an alliance, and while the talks continued, the low level diplomats the allies had sent, along with their inability to sign any document without first getting permission from the respective governments allowed the Germans to act swiftly and send Ribbentrop to Moscow with full powers to sign anything.

The Germans didn't give a fig what they were signing, because, like other treaties before, they were just dividing and conquering as per the playbook. Anything they agreed to wouldn't matter in the long run.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

 

[Darth Roxor]

You tell me to read history books, maybe you should do the same. For a long time Germany was viewing Poland as a potential ally in a war against the Soviet Union, similar as what Hungary and Romania ended up as, because the two had a similar hatred of the Soviets, and because the then Poland was for all intents and purposes a fascist state, though this isn't a very popular opinion.

This turned when Poland broke diplomatic relations at the Anglo's whim and Hitler took it as a personal insult. And the rest is history.

 

[Ladonna]

Give me your books Roxor. I am desperate to read these books that state what you are saying. And even better, their sources.

Hungary was indeed something of a willing accomplice, not to mention being given a big dab of Rumania as a sweetener. Rumania had lost a few provinces to Russia in the Rib/Mol pact, along with more provinces to Hungary, which Germany quietly told them to give in to, while promising them a big slice of the Ukraine after they defeated the Soviets. Others like Bulgaria stayed secretly friendly with the Soviets, and even told the Soviets, who approached them during the worst days of '41 and asked them to secretly ask the Germans for what terms they might take, that they would win in the end and not to ask for terms.

The Finns just wanted their land back and the Slovaks were basically just puppets.

Not to mention they were all scared shitless after France fell.

 

[what am i doing]

Just to be clear most of the blame for the decline of German-Polish relations lies with Jozef Beck, who let the eternal Anglo into his soul and ruined everything for everyone else.

 

[Ladonna]

I can see why you ask yourself what you are doing....

The blame for the decline in relations lies with Adolf Hitler. Unless you can show me where the Poles were demanding territory from the Germans? Or Corridors through Germany? I am sure Adolf would have been very happy with the Poles if they rolled over and did everything he said. See Czechoslovakia for what happens even when you do that! "Germany does not want any Czechs!"

What a hoot.

 

[Circuit the Short]

The noses know.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I knew this game has loads of potential, most of it to be shown long before its realease