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WARSAW RISING: City of Heroes - turn-based tactical RPG on WW2 Warsaw Uprising - now a free game

Gondolin

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Purveyor of fine art
Hungary was indeed something of a willing accomplice, not to mention being given a big dab of Rumania as a sweetener.

That wasn't a sweetener, it was punishment for Romania. Around 1938, I think, the Romanian government entered a secret agreement with the French and the Brits to slow down or sabotage oil deliveries to Germany. A copy of the agreement was found by the Germans in the French diplomatic archives after the Fall of France and, to quote Roxor, Hitler took it personally.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,783
The blame for the decline in relations lies with Adolf Hitler.

Given Hitler's tremendous admiration for Poland's earlier triumphs against the Soviet Union and his personal affinity with Pilsudski I'm going to say no. Also, do not imply that I suggest Poles in general bear any responsibility for the idiotic decisions foisted on them by Beck.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
10,639
Gondolin, I wouldn't use Roxor as a source. In either case, 'New Rumania' would be larger than Hungary and Bulgaria put together...had Germany won on the Eastern Front. If that is Hitler anger, well...

His personal affinity with Pilsudski? the same Pilsudski that offered to join France in a pre-emptive war against Germany after Hitlers rise? I am seeing the old Hitler Apologist playbook coming through here...I have seen this before. Let me guess, the holocaust didn't happen right? Come on, out with it...

The Germans wanted Polish territory. They attacked Poland ostensibly to gain this territory. Whether it be a country, a city or a football field, Germany attacked Poland. Poland was not asking for German territory, Germany was demanding Polish territory. Is this too hard to compute? If you say it was German territory before WW1, I will say it was previously Polish territory before Prussia took it, and so on, and so on.

Once again. Germany and Poland. Germany demanded land from Poland. Poland refused. Germany attacked Poland wiped it out. Germany/Adolf Hitler is at fault.

Father has house with daughter. Criminal wants to tap daughter in house. Criminal breaks in at night, demands daughter from father. Father refuses. Criminal smashes his head in rapes daughter. Fathers fault for not giving up daughter and having a beer ready for the criminal when finished.

I think it is becoming all too clear that I am debating with fanatics that parrot Stormfront. Have a good one.
 

Popiel

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
Messages
1,499
Location
Commonwealth
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yep, as much I would like things to be at least somewhat different, anyone who thinks that there could ever have been a lasting cooperation between Germany and Poland, or even more, a cooperation after hypothetical Germany-Poland alliance beat up Russia, is at the very, very least little deluded... and just a drooling moron at worst. Get fucking real people, video games perhaps do indeed make your brain rot.
 

rzh

Novice
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
8
Location
Eastern Europe
Hungary was indeed something of a willing accomplice, not to mention being given a big dab of Rumania as a sweetener.

That wasn't a sweetener, it was punishment for Romania. Around 1938, I think, the Romanian government entered a secret agreement with the French and the Brits to slow down or sabotage oil deliveries to Germany. A copy of the agreement was found by the Germans in the French diplomatic archives after the Fall of France and, to quote Roxor, Hitler took it personally.
You're only half-right. It was punishment, but for the assassination of Codreanu. There was no secret deal with the Western Allies.
 

AMG

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
374
Which RPG are you guys discussing? Seems like I never played it, but the CnC sure sounds amazing!
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
4,229
Jesus. This thread. :retarded:

Hitler would annex Poland no matter what. One of the main Nazis idea was an idea of getting a breathing space. At that time there was not enough agritulctular land in Germany and there were food shortages. Nazis wanted to take lands on the east of Germany for that reasons. Thinking that Hitler wouldn't turn on their allies if it suited him is just :) Somehow he didn't have a problem of attacking his ally Soviet Union.

Go learn something https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
 

Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
The Poles supped at the table of Czechoslovakia, dining on the corpse. They cannot be painted entirely as innocent martyrs.
You mean the district of Zaolzie that was previously stollen by Czechsslovakia in 1919 as Poland was in War with the Western Ukrainian National Republic. Instead of letting the border be decided by a plebiscit where the polish people had a 70% (Poles) to 18% (Czechs) majority. This is what i call a argument from retardation. Read the entire history of a certain conflict to know what exactly happened and why, before you make bad statements.

They then refused to allow Russian forces entry in the event of a German attack, thus destroying the influence of Litvinov, and allowing the hardliners under Molotov to gain ascendancy in the USSR.
Polish population, polish agents and dissident russian agents, fleeing jews from USSR, from has witnessed the massacres committed by the soviets and were the first to report it in 1920. And further Poland was the first to report Holdomor in 1930. So yes using Satan to free you from the Devil is a idiotic decision and definitly not acceptable. Which btw was confirmed after the invasion of USSR in Poland tin 17.9.1939, because what followed was robbery, rape, murder and deportations to siberia.
Btw. The criminal bankrobber Litvinov born as Meir Henoch Mojszewich Wallach-Finkelstein from a jewisch family of Bankers had certainly no love for Poland and the polish goyim. And don't come here with the Litvinov-Protocol because each party had a different reason for signing the this pact and the USSR wanted to ensure non intervention in case of a counter revolution due to the immanent rural reforms, which lead to Holodomor in 1932-1933.

"But the Russians would never have left if they had!!!111!!" Perhaps. But would you think their chances better if they still had a functioning government and armed force? With a probable joining of Rumania and Yugoslavia, (both of whom wilted out or joined the other side after the Molotov-Ribbontrop pact, the fall of France and its outcomes) and the possible joining of other balkan nations? Does anyone here actually believe France would have fallen had Russia entered into the fray alongside Poland in 1939?

The Western Allies were dithering weaklings at the time, but were discussing an alliance on the idea of Russia coming to the assistance of Poland in the event of general war. The flat refusal of Poland to allow this put an end to this idea, and allowed the Germans to jump in with their own pact, ready to be sealed.
Perhaps France would not have fallen if USSR didn't had invaded Poland and the allies didn't had betrayed Poland.
The general defence plan was simple: Hold western Poland for 2 weeks and get military supplies over the Rumenian Bridgehead after the first month, while France and Great Britain invades The Reich from the West on the 15.9.1939.
Poland fulfilled its role to the letter and even beyond, because it was able to hold up and bind the Wehrmacht for 3 weeks instead of the required 2 weeks. And if not for the invasion of Poland by USSR it could have done it for one additional month even without support over the Romanian Bridgehead.
But after the USSR invaded Poland in 17.09.1939, Poland's Military and Goverment was ordered a retreat over the Romanian Bridgehead (19 - 21.09).

There was no third way; either Russia entered as an 'Ally' or as an attacker to grab buffer space against the Germans. Mein Kampf had already set the stage. The Nazis were coming, as per their current bible, and the Poles were slated as something to be removed in that bible.
Ultimately, the Polish people were betrayed by their own military dictatorship.
Cue outrage.
As already stated there was a third way, but it would have required honor from the Allies and the USSR. USSR has broken the Non-Aggression Pact with Poland on the 17.09.1939, but as already stated you cannot demand that Satan honors an agreement. And therefore USSR wouldn't had honored any other agreement with Poland and the Allies and the polish leaders knew this. Poland has hoped that the hate of Hitler for the "jewish bolshevist state" would exclude a diplomatic and military interaction from this Devil and Satan. But as the history shows two evils can work hand in hand to do more evil and only in the end they will eat each other.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
you can even find plenty of archive photos of German and Potato ministers being best buds
1200px-Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stalin%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg


isn't life a funny thing
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I find myself extremely attracted to Ladonna right now, dunno why, must be the burka.

Also, jesus fucking lol -- is it even a copy of deep-dung or just a mod? And also, why?
 
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EverlastingLove

Learned
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
97
"But the Russians would never have left if they had!!!111!!" Perhaps. But would you think their chances better if they still had a functioning government and armed force? With a probable joining of Rumania and Yugoslavia, (both of whom wilted out or joined the other side after the Molotov-Ribbontrop pact, the fall of France and its outcomes) and the possible joining of other balkan nations? Does anyone here actually believe France would have fallen had Russia entered into the fray alongside Poland in 1939?

Yeah, why not to join the USSR (not Russia) and this lunatic Stalin, who was busy murdering his own generals just moments ago? What a great prospect :)

Poland couldn't let the Soviets enter their territory, because that would be the end of them and I don't mean just the state, but also the economy, culture and so on, USSR were a communist state with the intention of conquering as much as they could and spreading communism. Poland had two real choices: go to war alongside with Germany or against Germany. Both choices sucked. Maybe, MAYBE an Alliance between Poland and Czechoslovakia would have changed something but as history shown this Alliance was impossible to form because politicians from both those countries were too retarded to understand the danger that was coming.

This whole part about Romania (KINGDOM of Romania) and Yugoslavia (KINGDOM of Yugoslavia at the time) joining the USSR in just baseless speculation.

Oh, right, the game :) It looks uninspiring I don't have high hopes for that title.
 

Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
Poland couldn't let the Soviets enter their territory, because that would be the end of them and I don't mean just the state, but also the economy, culture and so on, USSR were a communist state with the intention of conquering as much as they could and spreading communism. Poland had two real choices: go to war alongside with Germany or against Germany. Both choices sucked.
Alongside was never an option, because of the Westpreußen (Pommerelle) / Pomorzany, Provinz Posen / Wielkopolska , Slansk / Schlesien. And sooner or later the Reich would have demanded this essential core lands of Poland.

Maybe, MAYBE an Alliance between Poland and Czechoslovakia would have changed something but as history shown this Alliance was impossible to form because politicians from both those countries were too retarded to understand the danger that was coming.
Piłsudski Plan of contingency for Germany or Russia was Międzymorze. But Międzymorze was out due to the Zaolzie conflict and Romenia recieving Siebenbürgen with the Szeklerland from Hungary after the WWI in the "Peace" Treaty of Trianon.
The Little Entente was directed against Germany and Hungary, but was also not more then a fart, that was disolved in the Munich agreement with France signing it.
And the disarmed Hungary was not able to provide support against the Reich and due to the policies of the WWI victors it was also pushed towards the later Axis.
Międzymorze could have prevented the WWII, but there was no stable basis for it and the unresolved conflicts between the east and middle european states prevented formation of such an organisation.
In the end Czechoslovakia was sold to the Reich for an empty promise of peace, while Poland was also betrayed one year later. Hungary had no other option then to join the Axis and Kingdom of Romania is another story.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,240
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Does this have character creation?
 

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