Was the Dishonored series good? Did System Shock 2 have good level design?

[Kem0sabe]

Ss2 is a good game, excellent atmosphere, but it is not without criticism, respawns and confusing level design are valid points against it.

Game environments should feel logical, especially in an enclosed space like a starship.

 

[Roguey]

I don't remember the levels being confusing in SS2.

 

[Thonius]

Let's split this thread... Oh wait it's obsidian forum carry on then.

 

[Cross]

SS2 is notable for having more simple level design than other Looking Glass games (possibly due to Levine's involvement). I don't even know what kind of brain damage you must have suffered from to find its levels confusing.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I don't remember SS2 levels to be confusing either. I remember them being designed in such a way that they were intense because they were not completely straightforward to navigate, which doesn't make them confusing necessarily. I think rather it enhances the atmosphere and feeling of uncertainty and dread the game was trying to deliver. The levels were clearly designed so as to enhance those elements.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I don't think people are talking about SS2 being confusing in its design, but in how the ship doesn't seem to resemble a real ship and is just areas of conveniently opening corridors that doesn't really make a realistic ship. So in a sense it's maze-like in that it worms in directions and doesn't really seem like a real, tangible place you're exploring.

 

[Jenkem]

bioshock was confusing

 

[Nano]

SS2 is set in 2114. Trends in architecture change all the time, dudes.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't think people are talking about SS2 being confusing in its design, but in how the ship doesn't seem to resemble a real ship and is just areas of conveniently opening corridors that doesn't really make a realistic ship. So in a sense it's maze-like in that it worms in directions and doesn't really seem like a real, tangible place you're exploring.

Gameplay takes priority over the ship being 'realistic', surely?

 

[Yosharian]

I had no idea there were so many Dishonored fanboys on here. I really don't understand the love those games get.

 

[Maggot]

Ironically those "criticisms" you agree with apply more to SS1 anyways aside from weapon degradation.

It really does not. At the very least SS1 has comprehensive mini map. Level design brilliance does not last 'til the end of SS2.

You realize SS2 has a minimap as well except with actual labels on it, right? Also there's arrows on the floors of most decks telling which corridors lead to where. If you want to call anything mazelike, it would be SS1 and there's tons of respawning enemies with level 4's invisible monsters coming to mind (not that respawning is inherently a bad thing since it had thought put into it).

 

[Yosharian]

I'm not butthurt, TT1. I myself am a fanboy of many games, such as BG2. There's nothing wrong with having a soft spot for a game or series. I just dont understand why this particular series would have a cult following. It's so bland and uninspired.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Gameplay takes priority over the ship being 'realistic', surely?

Ehhh, I dunno. I have no desire to play SS2 knowing it's corridors that conveniently open up for you. But so was Half-Life and I enjoyed that game a lot. Guess it depends on how good the gameplay is.

 

[Ismaul]

I haven't played SS1 or 2, but if it's like Deus Ex 1 vs 2, one being open and the other being corridor-based, the gameplay is much superior with open environments. Instead of simply going forward, you need to choose an approach strategy.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Dishonored is awesome. Talking shit about it is heresy.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

Dishonored looked good compared to the other games releasing around the time it did.
Doesn't hold up so well compared to Arkane's other games or other common comparisons like Thief.

 

[RNGsus]

Dishonored is awesome. Talking shit about it is heresy.

It was the last, large attempt at an immersive sim to deliver on actual elements of the genre. Monomyth is it now, unless I missed some news.

edit: I guess Prey was too, I forget which came out first.

Let's split this thread... Oh wait it's obsidian forum carry on then.

 

[Nano]

I haven't played SS1 or 2, but if it's like Deus Ex 1 vs 2,

It isn't. You're missing out.

Dishonored is awesome. Talking shit about it is heresy.

Nah. Dishonored is overrated mediocrity IMO.

 

[RapineDel]

Dishonored sucks. It's not actually designed around multiple play styles and instead just feels like a really cheap mix of Thief, Deus Ex etc.

From playing it, I feel like Arkane wanted to make a stealth game but Bethesda weren't having it, so they threw in the option to play it as an action game too and this is what lets it down, if they had the opportunity to make a proper stealth game, I think it would've been something at least as good as Prey. The issue is by adding the action options they had to undermine some of the level design and stealth aspects to compensate and it just brings down the whole game.

Dishonored 2 for me was an improvement as the level design was better, but it still suffered from some of the same issues and seeing the series dead doesn't bother me too much. It's worse then all of New Deus Ex, Prey etc. as it really doesn't please any one.

 

[RNGsus]

Dishonored is awesome. Talking shit about it is heresy.

Nah. Dishonored is overrated mediocrity IMO.

It was overrated because Bethesda buy ratings it has no business getting, but Dishonored isn't a bad game. Its like Thi3f without the overworld and a bunch of coolbruh cheats on. Which I think were fun but wasted on p boring levels.

 

[Beastro]

I tried playing Dishonoured a few years after it came out and didn't get far into it. I went in wanting to play a Thief game and found it didn't have the same soul to it like Thief while what it did have was repellent, especially the aesthetics they chose and the console feel to the whole thing.

That then makes me wonder: WTF hasn't anyone just made a straight up repeat of Thief? Everything that touches on FPS(ealth) has some major twists to the formula that completely changes the game. Makes me wish that could be swapped with FPS' spirit of shit regurgitation of the same gameplay so we could get more Thief style stealth games and more experimentive FPS' again.

 

[Maggot]

I tried playing Dishonoured a few years after it came out and didn't get far into it. I went in wanting to play a Thief game and found it didn't have the same soul to it like Thief while what it did have was repellent, especially the aesthetics they chose and the console feel to the whole thing.

That then makes me wonder: WTF hasn't anyone just made a straight up repeat of Thief? Everything that touches on FPS(ealth) has some major twists to the formula that completely changes the game. Makes me wish that could be swapped with FPS' spirit of shit regurgitation of the same gameplay so we could get more Thief style stealth games and more experimentive FPS' again.

Try The Dark Mod

 

[Beastro]

I tried playing Dishonoured a few years after it came out and didn't get far into it. I went in wanting to play a Thief game and found it didn't have the same soul to it like Thief while what it did have was repellent, especially the aesthetics they chose and the console feel to the whole thing.

That then makes me wonder: WTF hasn't anyone just made a straight up repeat of Thief? Everything that touches on FPS(ealth) has some major twists to the formula that completely changes the game. Makes me wish that could be swapped with FPS' spirit of shit regurgitation of the same gameplay so we could get more Thief style stealth games and more experimentive FPS' again.

Try The Dark Mod

I know and should, just annoying how stunted FPS(ealth) is as a genre that a fan mod is the only good successor to the Thiefs.

 

[Yosharian]

I tried playing Dishonoured a few years after it came out and didn't get far into it. I went in wanting to play a Thief game and found it didn't have the same soul to it like Thief while what it did have was repellent, especially the aesthetics they chose and the console feel to the whole thing.

That then makes me wonder: WTF hasn't anyone just made a straight up repeat of Thief? Everything that touches on FPS(ealth) has some major twists to the formula that completely changes the game. Makes me wish that could be swapped with FPS' spirit of shit regurgitation of the same gameplay so we could get more Thief style stealth games and more experimentive FPS' again.

Yes but how do we get microtransactions into a Thief game, that's the real question on everyone's lips

 

[Terenty]

The most epicly stupid design decision for Dishonored was adding free blink. Like fucking stupid.

They meticulously create levels for traversal on foot jumping and mantling, which is evident by all those routes, chains etc., then some genius decides "lets compromise our level design with free teleportation!"

And yes, Dishonored is pretty shitty and below Arkane's standards