Fluent plays ToEE

[Max Damage]

My big gripe with Improved Invisibility is in it being level 4 spell, which means you have to give up valuable spell slot for effects that are available much earlier and done more efficiently by level 1/2 spells, most of which aren't from Illusion either. And no matter how much I try, there's no working around the fact that melee buffed with Enlarge Person is plain better than archery and doesn't require ludicrous feat investment just to be kinda usable (level design combined with unavoidable cover penalties hurts a lot). When casters have locked everything down, you can just mop up with melee/evocation/enchantment even faster. Archery is a pretty bad backup since it lacks damage and accuracy until very late game (can't use it as backup in first place because you either dedicate feats to archery or ignore it in favor of non-crippled alternatives).

 

[jewboy]

Well you can become super-rich early in the game by pickpocketing the same few guys and selling and reselling to the jeweler, but money doesn't matter very much in ToEE. You can also rescue that dude in the temple pretty early and get megabucks.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Title should be "Fluent wants to play X game but doesn't know how to Google"

 

[Black]

better than archery

Archery? Who said anything about archery?

 

[Mustawd]

better than archery

Archery? Who said anything about archery?

Calling an expert...

Gregz

 

[Gregz]

better than archery

Archery? Who said anything about archery?

Calling an expert...

Gregz

Never did archery much in ToEE, I was always about whoring Scather and Fragarach.

 

[Cael]

My big gripe with Improved Invisibility is in it being level 4 spell, which means you have to give up valuable spell slot for effects that are available much earlier and done more efficiently by level 1/2 spells, most of which aren't from Illusion either. And no matter how much I try, there's no working around the fact that melee buffed with Enlarge Person is plain better than archery and doesn't require ludicrous feat investment just to be kinda usable (level design combined with unavoidable cover penalties hurts a lot). When casters have locked everything down, you can just mop up with melee/evocation/enchantment even faster. Archery is a pretty bad backup since it lacks damage and accuracy until very late game (can't use it as backup in first place because you either dedicate feats to archery or ignore it in favor of non-crippled alternatives).

No. I meant you can't move to engage the enemy in melee combat because of area denials, and you are a non-caster or want to conserve spells. Just shoot the enemy at range and wait for them to die to the area denials. I wouldn't sink any feats or resources into archery. It is a backup, not your primary.

 

[Max Damage]

Archery? Who said anything about archery?

Read post above one you quoted.

No. I meant you can't move to engage the enemy in melee combat because of area denials, and you are a non-caster or want to conserve spells. Just shoot the enemy at range and wait for them to die to the area denials. I wouldn't sink any feats or resources into archery. It is a backup, not your primary.

If for some reason I can't use Enlarge Person + non-short weapon (which never happened even in my very first playthrough), or can't do anything about spells I myself placed, I'd rather skip turn than waste time on shots that are almost guaranteed to miss. If you don't dedicate feats/ability scores/cash, bows/xbows are extremely weak options that don't even hit their targets most of time, and have long animations (which ticks me off the most). Spells are cheaper than dirt in ToEE, where most classes are spellcasters, and you can easily get your slots back with Rest and prepare more with Scribe Scroll.

 

[Cael]

Archery? Who said anything about archery?

Read post above one you quoted.

No. I meant you can't move to engage the enemy in melee combat because of area denials, and you are a non-caster or want to conserve spells. Just shoot the enemy at range and wait for them to die to the area denials. I wouldn't sink any feats or resources into archery. It is a backup, not your primary.

If for some reason I can't use Enlarge Person + non-short weapon (which never happened even in my very first playthrough), or can't do anything about spells I myself placed, I'd rather skip turn than waste time on shots that are almost guaranteed to miss. If you don't dedicate feats/ability scores/cash, bows/xbows are extremely weak options that don't even hit their targets most of time, and have long animations (which ticks me off the most). Spells are cheaper than dirt in ToEE, where most classes are spellcasters, and you can easily get your slots back with Rest and prepare more with Scribe Scroll.

I don't know why you'd think that. You use the same BAB. The only difference would be whether you have your melee weapon enchanted or you emphasized Str over Dex in your toon. That plus the fact that AC in ToEE isn't that high most of the time. I have killed a fair number of bad guys with arrows, bolts and sling stone, especially that big fight coming out of the Moathouse, where Meleny's Entangle basically immobilised every enemy and I didn't want my guys running into that mess.

 

[Max Damage]

Melee doesn't have crippling disadvantages against foes that are tripped/behind cover, and, when keeping BAB and AC in mind, don't forget that Improved Trip makes actually hitting stuff even better on top of that. I'll have to disagree with AC not being high most of time due to how many armored humanoids there are (gnolls/bugbears have jarringly high AC for Moathouse too). Ranged weapons also can't trip and can't perform attacks of opportunity, they're marginally better cantrips for non-mages that are still not worth using. That big fight from Co8 mod is finished many times faster with magic/magic+melee, Entangle is good spell, but Sleep/Charm/melee/summons is the obvious logical follow up, not x/bows (especailly when those archers are still free to shoot at you, with better odds for the situation). I also killed a fair number with cantrips/ranged attacks, it has nothing to do with the fact that there're much better, not crap options, especially for somebody who hasn't played the game before.

 

[Cael]

Melee doesn't have crippling disadvantages against foes that are tripped/behind cover, and, when keeping BAB and AC in mind, don't forget that Improved Trip makes actually hitting stuff even better on top of that. I'll have to disagree with AC not being high most of time due to how many armored humanoids there are (gnolls/bugbears have jarringly high AC for Moathouse too). Ranged weapons also can't trip and can't perform attacks of opportunity, they're marginally better cantrips for non-mages that are still not worth using. That big fight from Co8 mod is finished many times faster with magic/magic+melee, Entangle is good spell, but Sleep/Charm/melee/summons is the obvious logical follow up, not x/bows (especailly when those archers are still free to shoot at you, with better odds for the situation). I also killed a fair number with cantrips/ranged attacks, it has nothing to do with the fact that there're much better, not crap options, especially for somebody who hasn't played the game before.

I said that I wanted to conserve spells. If you want to talk spells, I'd be wiping the floor with everyone using Fireballs.

 

[Rivmusique]

And does anyone know what "set default Gold (500 GP)" is? Is that what the game is supposed to by set at, or should I just roll with the higher (about 800 GP) starting gold amount? Not trying to cheat or throw off the balance or something.

The general idea is to either use that starting gold to buy exactly the equipment you want from the chests in that starting area then set out with the remaining cash, or select the option to give your whole party the default starting gear (which is rarely ideal, will give you an appropriate weapon though if you gave anyone weapon focus) then set the starting gold to the default amount. It will hardly break your game, whatever you decide.

 

[Dux]

Low level D&D fighters missing consistently at the worst moments are literally squeezing my nutsack purple. Ahem.

On another note, what's up with the deities in this game? Granted I don't know much of D&D but I've played enough FR games to have a basic understanding of the pantheon. I've never heard of some of these supposed gods. Heironeous is apparently the god of valour. Literally who? I've heard of Moradin, Corellon Larethian, Yondalla and Carl Glittergold but then there's Boccob the god of magic. Who the fuck is Boccob?

 

[Black]

This is Greyhawk, not poofy FR.

 

[Dux]

Thought it might be something like that. Still strange how FR and GH share some gods but not others.

edit: Something you wanna say, luj1?

 

[Master]

I've heard of Moradin, Corellon Larethian, Yondalla and Carl Glittergold but then there's Boccob the god of magic. Who the fuck is Boccob?

C'mon, everybody knows Boccob. Good ol' Boccob. How can you not know him?