I dig this answer the most. Art is not something that cannot be criticized. A lot of things can be art. And I can appreciate a lot of art. There's also a shit ton of bad and/or lazy art.Yes but art isn't a mark of quality: There's lots of shit art. Art is a work made for entertainment, nothing more.
They have the potential as to be art, like every other medium.
The main problems are:
- Modern Art is absolute shit - so it's highly unlikely for something artistic to come out from a still very young medium in a age where people with actual knowledge of art a rare sight;
- again videogames are a very recent medium, so the criteria for which they can be artistically evaluated is not well defined (and due to the above problem, proper characterization won't happen any time soon);
- most developers that want to make artistic games (specially western ones), are ashamed by the fact they had to turn to videogames to ''express themselves''; this is quite clear as they never try to make actual games but cinematic/novel experiences and are more focused on delivering "muh feelz" than actual gameplay and content (you can even see on interviews that those kinds of devs never give ou other games as sources of inspiration, they always refer either to books or movies, and the few times they do say other games it's also artsy-farsty games like the ones they are trying to make); they are the same people that think pure action are preventing the medium from being taken "seriously" and becoming ''high art'', so they are people that in general don't like videogames.
- and finally they always try to make their games artistic not by playing to the medium's strengths and unique traits (that is the interactivity and reactivity) but rather by the visuals, script and audio (the strengths of other mediums)
Ultimately I would take a good, fun and challenging game that isn't afraid of being gamey and has very little artistic value. Over a serious, well written, "artistic" game with shallow mechanics and no replayability. Every time.
Modern art (at least when we are talking visual arts) is actually pretty clever. The problem with it is that most of it is very self referential, which means that one has to be well versed in art history to appreciate it.
Is shitposting art ?
Not only can games be art, it's possible --- though certainly rare --- for a game to be good both as a game and as art. A few examples, mostly replicating categories of traditional art:Software can be written that counts as art (though we haven't seen much of it) but you can't call it art and a game at the same time.
Art is a meaningless buzzword more often used by pseudo intellectuals to attempt to rationalize their behavior into being approved by their peers as "mature". People who call video games art are the people who are trying to kill video games.
Couldn't've said it better myself.I never once in my life questioned if the game I was playing was "art" or not, but whether I was having fun with it or not.
So I don't really care whether people think games are "art" or not, my enjoyment wouldn't be invalidated because of that.
Roger was taking the piss. I'm sure of that. He knows that people will be the most butthurt when what you tell them is true; especially if you don't elaborate. He also knows these ''games r art'' people would kill for his approval.That sucker bit more than he can chew and people challenge him to chew, and then he quit. But no, he wouldnt change his mind or opinion and still declare loudly games can not be art.Was Roger Ebert right?
Not only can games be art, it's possible --- though certainly rare --- for a game to be good both as a game and as art.
Looking at the standards for art these days, I have no doubt that games are art too.
Nah, he MIGHT know people would be most butthurt about it. But he could not have known how many people would call him out, challenge him to play a game they consider best proof of game being art. And when he tried to avoid playing any of it by saying he doesnt have computer to play, dont know how to set it up correctly to play (this is the days of Windows XP), dont have program to play, dont have those games to play... people volunteer to lend him a correct rig, a technician would have set it up for him, games being lent to him. He just need to click to play...Roger was taking the piss. I'm sure of that. He knows that people will be the most butthurt when what you tell them is true; especially if you don't elaborate. He also knows these ''games r art'' people would kill for his approval.That sucker bit more than he can chew and people challenge him to chew, and then he quit. But no, he wouldnt change his mind or opinion and still declare loudly games can not be art.Was Roger Ebert right?
Ah, but now you've moved from asserting that games can't be art to asserting that gameplay can't be art.No, they can't.
A game can have elements of art, like gorgeous graphics, melodic music and witty writing, and it itself may borrow upon artistic elements from established art styles, like Lemmings does with its frequent use of classical music.
My argument (which has popped up several times in various forms throughout this thread) is that games are meant to be fun and interacted with, while art is not. Art is a static item (an image, a shape, words or music) that is to appreciated as it is, and almost always not to be messed with in any way. There is no input except that of the artist, otherwise it's only output.
Games are fluid and dynamic by design, but most importantly they require the input of the participant, and gamers can, via their input, change the output of the game.
Both art and games can be enjoyed, but there's still a fundamental difference between the two that sets them apart (unless you subscribe to the godforsaken notions of post-modernism, in which case there's no point trying to explain art to you anyway).
I'll concede that this is only the current situation, the future may one day allow software (and possibly even games) to be counted as art.
Did you know that The Brothers Karamazov was serialized? It was, in fact, sold piecemeal to readers throughout its first publishing. No wonder it's so long.I won't define what makes a game art, but anything that has DLC can't be art. No artist would allow their art to be sold piecemeal any more than an author would allow a rough draft of their book to be sold or George Lucas would allow a copy of Star Wars with Han shooting first to exist.
Did you know that The Brothers Karamazov was serialized? It was, in fact, sold piecemeal to readers throughout its first publishing. No wonder it's so long.I won't define what makes a game art, but anything that has DLC can't be art. No artist would allow their art to be sold piecemeal any more than an author would allow a rough draft of their book to be sold or George Lucas would allow a copy of Star Wars with Han shooting first to exist.
Pretty much, most of the people extremely butthurt by "Roger Ebert", whinging about it in dozens of articles or holding grudges and bringing them up at inopportune moments:Art is a meaningless buzzword more often used by pseudo intellectuals to attempt to rationalize their behavior into being approved by their peers as "mature". People who call video games art are the people who are trying to kill video games.
"Welcome to an existential nightmare."
- Patrick Klepek, Giant Bomb
"The time I spend with Mountain feels slightly more real to me than anything else inside my computer."
- Leigh Alexander, Gamasutra
"Mountain upends expectations, refusing to fit into preexisting categories."
- Justin Cone, Motionographer
"I don’t like to talk emotions but this game genuinely is so uplifting."
- Alice O'Connor, Rock Paper Shotgun
"The only experience that has ever made me feel sad about a geological phenomenon."
- Andrew Webster, The Verge
Awards & Recognition
Press
- “Independent Games Festival ‘Excellence in Narrative’ Nominee”
- “Independent Games Festival ‘Nuovo’ Honorable Mention”
- “IndieCade 2017 Developer’s Choice Award”
- “SXSW 2017 Gamer’s Voice Award Nominee”
- “AMAZE Award Nominee”
- “IndieCade 2017 Official Selection”
- “Best of the MIX LA 2017”
- “IGN Best of Show E3 2017 Nominee”
- “RPGFan.com Best of Show E3 2017”
“There’s this gloriously intense illustrated style which works alongside the soundtrack to give me chills every time I see the trailer or visit the website.”
— The ‘shining lie’ at the heart of Where The Water Tastes Like Wine Rock, Paper, Shotgun
“This promises to be a surreal and interesting find…”
— E3 2017’s Most Anticipated Games The Guardian
“Dim Bulb Games is looking to push the envelope even further with their collaboratively written, narrative game”
— The Collaborative Storytelling Of Where The Water Tastes Like Wine Cliqist
“This wasn’t just my favorite game of the show, I have a feeling it will be one of my favorite games of all time.”
— The Ten Best Games at E3 2017 Paste
“Between the music, the pace, and the stories, Where the Water Tastes Like Wine taps into the roots of America and its folklore in a natural and compelling way.”
— The Most Awesome Indies of E3 2017 Mashable
“Thoughtful, melancholy, and filled with incredible writing, Where the Water Tastes Like Wine is quite different from any game I’ve played before.”
— The Best Indie Games Of E3 2017 Game Informer
“Delicious like a good wine.” (Translated)
— Nos 10 meilleurs jeux vidéo de l’E3 2017 Le Monde
“The way stories morph and blend in these campfire exchanges is unlike any I’ve seen in a narrative video game.”
— E3 2017’s brightest indie games, cataloged in words and video Ars Technica
“Where The Water Tastes Like Wine is a giant leap forward for video game storytelling”
9/10 – The Washington Post
“Where The Water Tastes Like Wine is a surprisingly beefy adventure game, offering over 20 hours of content and a treasure trove of stories that never cease to entertain. I laughed, reminisced about my own life, and enjoyed meeting the colorful cast of characters who opened up to me as time went on.”
9/10 – Game Informer
“There's nothing quite like it, and it's doubtful that there ever will be.”
8.5/10 – Destructoid
"As a statement that games can express emotionally resonant stories, Gone Home is a triumph. 9/10" EDGE
"I could cry—did cry—with the relief of knowing a game like this even exists." Kotaku
"I never expected to see myself—or such a strong reflection of myself and my own life—in a video game. 10/10" Polygon
"After completing the game, I sat in spellbound, smiling silence for nearly an hour" Polygon
"As the credits roll I burst into tears. I have Gone Home and I have gone home but I am not home." PCGamer
"Gone Home is the greatest video game love story ever told." The New York Times
"A remarkable achievement. 9.5/10" IGN
"A captivating and deeply poignant journey of discovery. 9.5/10" GameSpot
"Epic, personal and revelatory. 5/5" Giant Bomb
Bit by bit, I have seen our community growing, broadening, opening. For years, narrative titles fought a long and bitter battle to be included in the indie scene, and now we honor games like Gone Home and Depression Quest. We fought about whether games needed to have challenges and goals in order to be games, and now we honor titles like Panoramical, Dear Esther, and The Stanley Parable.
Of course video games are art, I thought we established that back in 2012:
They will never surpass the high arts though:
https://www.boredpanda.com/art-gallery-glasses-prank-tj-khayatan/