Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Tse Tse Fly]

Lutte, Tuco Benedicto Pacifico thank you both. I am more inclined to try Sekiro. Now, how varied are the enemies in the game? By variety I mean not only physical appearance of the enemies, but also manner they oppose the player, types of attacks, ways of handling/treating them etc (for example, if there are only/mostly enemies that attack at close range, it is not very good). Have you to deal with a lot of plain, regular enemies (both in number and variety) or you mostly fight 'bosses' in Sekiro?

 

[Jasede]

Like every other Souls game.

 

[Cromwell]

Now, how varied are the enemies in the game?

In the first half of the game enemies are mostly the same, you have your usual samurai with swords spears and rifles, you have ninjas, and more elite samurais you deal with them by hitting them with your sword and avoid getting hit, You also have monks unarmed and with spears, hit them with the sword. Theres also some dogs and monkeys and, I am sure you guessed it, hit them with your sword.

Its mostly the same, you either deflect or dodge then you hit until they deflect or dodge and they hit. Movements are more or less the same aside from the ninjas on roofs which tend to jump around a lot so the formula is follow them and hit them with your sword. I havent met any normal enemy that needs a more complex description.

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

Like every other Souls game.

The problem is that I haven't played any Souls game much. If it's like that the bosses are pretty creative and varied, but the regular enemies are plain and basic, then it'd be rather disappointing. And Lutte mentioned there isn't much in terms of exploration in Sekiro.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Normal enemies are more or less just like normal Dark Souls.

Sekiro highlights vs Dark Souls are the bosses, you can't really roll, roll, hit 3 times, roll, roll, run around until enemies AOE attacks are finished, hit 2 times, roll roll until the boss is dead like in in Dark Souls.

 

[Lutte]

Regular dogs/wolves/monkeys die in a single hit of a shuriken btw, they're far less of a threat than they used to be in groups in older souls.
The game gets creative with regular enemies at the last area of the game, but that's about it. It's the only area where using stealth is actually not a waste of time (in the early game it's more larp than real use) because of a certain ranged mechanic enemies have.
Otherwise if you're doing stealth on anything except minibosses, you're just larping because you could just run up to them, kill one, jump like a monkey and hit another etc.
Or run far enough and lose aggro, then run back and backstab. Enemies don't notice you fast enough when you run to their back, meaning you don't need to crouch stealth to backstab kill one of them.

I wouldn't say the boss variety is like any souls game either. The content reuse is stronger than other people here are willing to admit, to an extent that's really damning. Area variety suffers the same issue and the storyline makes you retread ashina not once but twice (removes your bonfire idols access and make you get back to them). All souls game had content reuse but the amount in Sekiro is extremely damning. I'm now 33 hours in, completed most content despite myself (skipped all the headless shit and demon of hatred), haven't killed the end boss yet but mastered the first two phases to the point of doing them no-hit no-heal and I felt like there was about only 15 hours of real content, with the rest being padding to dramatically lengthen it.

Spoiler

And that's exactly what's wrong with the game right there. So much shit is repeated. You die often to a phase of a boss but have to retread the same previously mastered moves ad nauseam. What I found bearable because it was just one spectacle boss in Friede in DS3 is now a standard fare and many enemies will be met multiple times.
It's a bittersweet game because there's a decent amount of positive about the combat. I don't dislike learning the final boss and I didn't dislike many other bosses. But the tedium of phases and length of fights gets to you.

Spoiler

Owl

second encounter takes like 10 minutes. That sort of thing was already testing my patience really hard in Dark Souls 3's DLC ( Gael and Midir )

If the next From game is anything like this it'll be no-buy for me.

 

[Wunderbar]

I fucking the game for making me fight this worthless sack of shit Genichiro each time before facing Isshin Sword Saint

 

[cvv]

The problem is that I haven't played any Souls game much. If it's like that the bosses are pretty creative and varied, but the regular enemies are plain and basic, then it'd be rather disappointing.

Dude, stop fucking posting and go play the games. Jesus christ.

 

[cvv]

I don't dislike learning the final boss and I didn't dislike many other bosses. But the tedium of phases and length of fights gets to you.

Spoiler

Owl

second encounter takes like 10 minutes. That sort of thing was already testing my patience really hard in Dark Souls 3's DLC ( Gael and Midir )

100% this. Make the bosses even harder. Even more frenetic with even more combos to learn. But for fucks sake don't make me nibble them to death.

THE most stupid mistake is to make trash mobs tanky in a Souls game. That's what killed Surge (plus the samey environment). Trash mobs that constantly respawn must be dangerous but at the same time you've to be able to dispatch them quickly. That's Souls 101. The same thing is true about bosses, only turned to 11.

 

[Lutte]

I fucking the game for making me fight this worthless sack of shit Genichiro each time before facing Isshin Sword Saint

Genichiro's longest slash spam reminds me of.. the spastic hollow of DS1 (you know, the ones who goes all wack wack wack wack wack wack) but even more desperate because genichiro self destructs his posture bar with this.
If the RNG jesus blesses you, sometimes you may be able to kill him really quickly if he does :
a follow up dark slash after his first initial charge (you can keep wacking him really hard during those things while he charges up) and then does the spastic combo.. GG.
Making the fight always start with this first move that gives you so many free hits was a nice consideration but I'd rather they just don't make you fight him once you've defeated him for good.

 

[Cromwell]

The problem is that I haven't played any Souls game much. If it's like that the bosses are pretty creative and varied, but the regular enemies are plain and basic, then it'd be rather disappointing. And Lutte mentioned there isn't much in terms of exploration in Sekiro.

then you wont like it, normal enemies die with button mashing, the only ones I saw that dont are guys with spears because they deflect and block a lot. The only issue you may have with normals is that they may rush you. You also have upgraded versions of normals like the blue samurai which are equally easy to dispose of but not by simple button mashing. Compare it to a standard jrpg and everything except mini and real bosses is Sekiros version of trash mobs.

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

The problem is that I haven't played any Souls game much. If it's like that the bosses are pretty creative and varied, but the regular enemies are plain and basic, then it'd be rather disappointing.

Dude, stop fucking posting and go play the games. Jesus christ.

Eh, I was optimistic about playing Sekiro specifically, primarily because of the setting and (as I heard) different combat. I played some of the previous Souls games, and didn't quite like the described

roll, roll, hit 3 times, roll, roll, run around

fashion fights are done (this was my impression after a few hours into the games, I could be wrong). BUT now that I learnt exploration in Sekiro isn't one of the outstanding points, I think I'd better off with previous Souls titles for the moment.

 

[Matador]

Completely agree with the HP bloat issue. I remember how I liked when I discovered Dark Souls 1 and Demon Souls the dangerous and hard hitting trash mobs with little health. One of the design successes of the series. This combined with environmental hazards and places designed to endanger the enemy encounters, which are absent from sekiro due to high mobility.

The same with bosses. Fights were tense, a test of skill, not endurance (except Gaping dragon).

 

[Cromwell]

BUT now that I learnt exploration in Sekiro isn't one of the outstanding points, I think I'd better off with previous Souls titles for the moment.

Sekiro is mostly linear and I dont have a Problem with that but If you like to explore AND like to find cool shit I wouldnt touch it. I remember one prosthethic you only get if youre going out of your way and I think a praer bead or two or a gourd seed. It seems like the world is a bit more open but in the end even if you get every item itsd just more and more consumables you dont really need in the first place. Theres no cool new weapons or skill texts to be found and no secret bosses or areas.

 

[Lutte]

Theres no cool new weapons or skill texts to be found and no secret bosses or areas.

The game goes out of its way to tell you there's something new in areas by disabling your idols too. Like, going back to the outskirts in the end game is fully optional but you know something is up when you see those idol teleports greyed out in the menu so you go and kill some more mucks to get your pearls. When a new shichimen appeared where the double ape fight happened the idol greyed out too.

 

[Cromwell]

The game goes out of its way to tell you there's something new in areas by disabling your idols too. Like, going back to the outskirts in the end game is fully optional but you know something is up when you see those idol teleports greyed out in the menu so you go and kill some more mucks to get your pearls. When a new shichimen appeared where the double ape fight happened the idol greyed out too.

ah ok I am not at this point so I didnt know

 

[Sentinel]

I don't dislike learning the final boss and I didn't dislike many other bosses. But the tedium of phases and length of fights gets to you.

Spoiler

Owl

second encounter takes like 10 minutes. That sort of thing was already testing my patience really hard in Dark Souls 3's DLC ( Gael and Midir )

100% this. Make the bosses even harder. Even more frenetic with even more combos to learn. But for fucks sake don't make me nibble them to death.

THE most stupid mistake is to make trash mobs tanky in a Souls game. That's what killed Surge (plus the samey environment). Trash mobs that constantly respawn must be dangerous but at the same time you've to be able to dispatch them quickly. That's Souls 101. The same thing is true about bosses, only turned to 11.

Trash mobs aren't tanky in Sekiro. And adding more moves to bosses won't solve anything - people alreay complain about the current number of moves because it can feel a bit too random/guess work what the boss will pick next. If bosses have 10 melee moves and 5 ranged ones it's almost impossible for a player to keep up. The way From has been doing it is correct - boss moveset progression through phases. However the phase system is already starting to show its cracks, in that it can be very annoying on repeat attempts having to go through all the phases over and over again, so they'll need to come up with a new system soon.

 

[Lord Romulus]

 

[Mojobeard]

Quit at the end of my second playthrough. It's a really good game, but the replayability just isn't there.

Here's some bitching about readability of enemy moves:
1) Camera not doing anything, just like in Souls, doesn't work in this faster beat'em'up style game. We need to clearly see our opponent all the time and not waste time trying to see their skinny figures past our own character. Our character being slightly off-center, or the camera turning a bit on lock-on, would alleviate things a lot.
2) Enemies aren't big enough. Take God Hand, the enemies were gigantic compared to Gene there, so you could always focus on them. As were the enemies you were "meant" to parry in Dark Souls 1, Silver/Dark Knights. It is alright for your videogame to be videogamey like this.
3) But it is wrong to be videogamey like this; the DANGER warning doesn't really tell us anything. When is the attack happening? What type of attack? Why is the warning blocking even more of the screen? And you know this came up in playtesting. Because it's a very lazy way of trying to correct...
4) Pointless wooshy animations, or enemies that are otherwise too covered to really know when the attack is going to happen. Especially bad on enemies that do both thrust and sweep unblockables.
Everyone died to Genichiro, because he is the culmination of all these problems. Some of the purple enemies are the same. He's the same size as you, has a giant hat, drooping clothes, his slash/sweep happens while he's crouched down, and he also kicks up dust sometimes. Guarantee you, the first times you died to him you thought "what the fuck is happening?". Isshin on the other hand is a harder fight, but doesn't really suffer from these problems, because his animations and model are so much clearer.

 

[Multidirectional]

I started that infamous petition to bring it on PC few years back.

That's infamous? I thought it was the only online petition in human history that actually worked.

 

[Multidirectional]

The problem is that I haven't played any Souls game much. If it's like that the bosses are pretty creative and varied, but the regular enemies are plain and basic, then it'd be rather disappointing.

If you haven't played it then stop acting like you know shit about it.

 

[Raghar]

I defeated silver knights without parrying. Why would anyone simplify rather difficult fight by parrying them?

 

[Multidirectional]

If the next From game is anything like this it'll be no-buy for me.

This is what worries me too, that they might feel like they have to increase difficulty with every damn game until they become unbearable. I know some people found Dark Souls III too easy (not sure why, maybe I didn't figure out a proper way to play) but it was already too hectic for my taste with bullshit spammy enemies that never seemed to run out of stamina. No doubt it would look like a pretty easy game to me now though, after getting utterly raped in Sekiro.

 

[mogwaimon]

I defeated silver knights without parrying. Why would anyone simplify rather difficult fight by parrying them?

I used to try when I was new to Souls. Black Knights and those blue/red eyed demon soldiers in DeS used to kick my ass all the time. After Anor Londo, though, I learned you can just bait them into backstabs all day long and now they're practically trivial.

 

[Ivan]

he's making the classic mistake of trying to get more licks in. Sekiro is all about not being too greedy when you DO manage to get a lick in.