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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
Well the game obviously favours classes with endless resources as the hard fights are the ones that last long.

I agree with druid having little flavour, not counting shapeshifting but that's mostly causing by yours truly deciding wizards having to carry grimoires with prepared spells and per rest uses is poop poor for balance purposes. I've only played release date version of PoE and iirc. wizard was really bad there, so maybe there was a good reason for it. So yeah I have fury druid/evo wizard for ultimate AOE nuke char and sometimes I forget which spells are wizard's and which are druid's.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Out of all the retarded complaints Lacrymas conjured in both PoE threads, complaining about lack of options in a game with 50 fuckzillion class combinations takes the cake.
Are there options when all the options lead to the same result? Inb4 PoE's system is a faithful representation of compatibilism. Classes played like reskins of each other in PoE1 and the streamlining made this worse in 2. Naturally, this leads to the classes with better spells or just plain better numbers to be preferable to the other ones. Druid played like discount Wizard, Monk and Barbarian like gimmicky versions of the Fighter, Ranger like a ranged Rogue without the sneak attack. The useful feats were very few, causing 90%+ of builds using the same ones, exacerbating the problem even more. This doesn't even include the same items they used. When you get down to the actual practical application of PoE's system, it's quickly clear the alleged options are illusions with very few exceptions.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
not to defend him(because I do not like him)

but it can be a reasonable argument if the balance is so out of the window that there are clear cut choices that are simply /better/ than the alternatives

And what would those clear cut choices be? I've done 3 full runs and about 5 half-starts on top of that. So that's 8 different party combinations, and it still doesn't cover even 5% of possible builds. If you look on Obsidian forums, people have come up with lots of cool shit, but it's all in two categories - solo builds that rely on cheese, and one trick pony builds for the player character when it's either glass cannon DPS or unkillable tank.

Once you get into party synergies and custom companions, the amount of combinations is beyond colossal. I don't know what best builds are. Nobody does. Like FreeKaner rightfully pointed out, Empower and Power Level mechanics do really good job at driving min-maxers crazy, because their impact can be monumental but can't be easily laid out in a spreadsheet.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
but it can be a reasonable argument if the balance is so out of the window that there are clear cut choices that are simply /better/ than the alternatives

It can be but in this case it isn't. The Balancemaster really did a pretty good job of eliminating cheesily OP win button classes/combos.

(Parties not so much, the all-Chanter Unstoppable Lenin Sex Orchestra is still unstoppable. But that's okay.)
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
whoever designed the penetration system in this game deserves to be hanged(doesn't even deserve the dignity of being beheaded or the honour of being shot by a firing squad)
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I like how everyone is complaining about the Penetration mechanic one by one, while it being shit has been known since the beta. It's a good idea kinda, but the implementation is terrible. Well, now that I think about it, maybe it isn't even a good idea. It's basically impossible to balance in regards to bosses.
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
i didnt know anything about this game until a week ago give me abreak

i dont follow autistic disucssion in thread about games i dont play

I sure as hell dont read a backlog of 250 pages either

jeez
 

entr0py

Scholar
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
100
Location
Always a step ahead of you...
Don't know.... penetration helps to further differentiate between weapon types. It helps devs not to make HP-sponge bosses -> high armor should take care of difficulty instead (even though there are some hp-bloat enemies, its far lesss obnoxious as in other games).
You can raise penetration multiple ways and there are a few things which disregards armor (raw damage, minoletta's spells). The only thing I don't like about penetration is its binary nature. Having one less penetration than enemy armor -> you are doing shit damage, same as if you had 5 less penetration. Then there is the other treshold, havin 128% penetration over enemy armor? Okay nothing happens. Now you have 130%? Double damage all the way.... I think given how everything has %-based increments, this should be more of a continuum of results as well, instead of these binary outcomes.
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
Don't know.... penetration helps to further differentiate between weapon types
yeah dude

it differentiates between usable and unusable

bravo sawyer

It helps devs not to make HP-sponge bosses -> high armor should take care of difficulty instead (even though there are some hp-bloat enemies, its far lesss obnoxious as in other games).
ends up being same thing

You can raise penetration multiple ways and there are a few things which disregards armor (raw damage, minoletta's spells).
this literally just funnels down possible viable builds for no reason other than sawyer's incurable autism

Then there is the other treshold, havin 128% penetration over enemy armor? Okay nothing happens. Now you have 130%? Double damage all the way.... I think given how everything has %-based increments, this should be more of a continuum of results as well, instead of these binary outcomes.
no how pen works, you need double pen for armor for the 130% dmg bonus btw
 

entr0py

Scholar
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
100
Location
Always a step ahead of you...
Then there is the other treshold, havin 128% penetration over enemy armor? Okay nothing happens. Now you have 130%? Double damage all the way.... I think given how everything has %-based increments, this should be more of a continuum of results as well, instead of these binary outcomes.
no how pen works, you need double pen for armor for the 130% dmg bonus btw

Yeah, right, sorry, my bad mixed up the two thresholds, thats basically not achievable on PoTD against tougher enemies.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
It forces builds to work around Penetration; it's too binary in a gaming genre which doesn't thrive on binaries; it's impossible to balance in regards to bosses, it either makes armor beyond the minimum pointless or trivializes fights; it's a mandatory stat to stack in a game which already has a mandatory stat to stack (accuracy); I don't think there's a way to influence Pen on spells; makes some subclasses better than others; like Jessica said, it differentiates the weapons between usable and unusable; the early game on PotD is iffy, it's almost solely due to Pen that the Drake fight is difficult for melee; and the most damning thing of all, it isn't better than what PoE1 had.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I don't think there's a way to influence Pen on spells

nup, but there are lots of ways to reduce enemy Armour with spells :M

(I agree that it's a kind of a shit mechanic, but it's not that shit; it just means that if you're using low-Pen weapons you need to use enemy armour debuffs more.)
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
ok actually I can think of 4 right now

but like some are STRICTLY better than others its not even funny

and still like a relatively small nnumber of spells beieng fucking mandatory is horrible design for build diversity
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
fucking sawyer piece of shit I cant belive I have ben tricked into havign fun for like 30 hours over multiple character concepts only to eventually come to the realizatoin that the game is garbage and compeltely draining my spirit and desire to finish it and explore the story

i fuckiing hate obsidian retarded pieces of shit literally trickign me into having fun wrong I hate them so much

FUCK, there were some cool characters even

this is s ounfair
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
PoE as a franchise very strenously fights with your desire to enjoy it, neither 1 or 2 are outright bad and are at times enjoyable, but that comes with very many compromises and caveats. And the more you play, the more obvious the flaws become.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Penetration is no issue until endgame, where on PoTD and with scaling you simply run out of ways to penetrate anyone's armor normally even with top gear and combat just becomes spongy.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
PoE as a franchise very strenously fights with your desire to enjoy it, neither 1 or 2 are outright bad and are at times enjoyable, but that comes with very many compromises and caveats. And the more you play, the more obvious the flaws become.

I feel this way about just about every cRPG ever.
 

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