Game News Queen's Wish: The Conqueror gets trailer and Steam page, coming Fall 2019

[Excommunicator]

I thought this was a joke post before I realised it was Jeff Vogel's RPG

Game has mobile shovelware written all over it.

Opening scene "Mom has a job for you" just lol

 

[Infinitron]

That's the weird thing, though: Yes, it looks mostly the same, with a slight change of perspective. So... where did the money go?

Increasingly I suspect the Kickstarter funds weren't meant to be some extra investment to make his next game notably better, but a replacement for revenue his previous games failed to earn.

Which raises the question what happens when this game is released with 2000+ of his most hardcore fans already owning it.

Opening scene "Mom has a job for you" just lol

A lot of people probably find that cute in a Chrono Trigger JRPG opening kind of way.

 

[Elephantman]

Jeff copying Pillars BEST FEATURES!

 

[mfkndggrfll]

That's the weird thing, though: Yes, it looks mostly the same, with a slight change of perspective. So... where did the money go?

Increasingly I suspect the Kickstarter funds weren't meant to be some extra investment to make his next game notably better, but a replacement for revenue his previous games failed to earn.

Which raises the question what happens when this game is released with 2000+ of his most hardcore fans already owning it.

Opening scene "Mom has a job for you" just lol

A lot of people probably find that cute in a Chrono Trigger JRPG opening kind of way.

Did he even mention why he made it a kickstarter? Considering he has been making games for years without the need for that, why did he judge that this project required a kickstart?

 

[Morkar Left]

Did he even mention why he made it a kickstarter? Considering he has been making games for years without the need for that, why did he judge that this project required a kickstart?

My wild guess would be money...

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Did he even mention why he made it a kickstarter? Considering he has been making games for years without the need for that, why did he judge that this project required a kickstart?

My wild guess would be money...

I know that but what excuse did he use to ask for money?

 

[Morkar Left]

Did he even mention why he made it a kickstarter? Considering he has been making games for years without the need for that, why did he judge that this project required a kickstart?

My wild guess would be money...

I know that but what excuse did he use to ask for money?

The same excuse others have to ask for money?

Kidding aside, it's just more comfortable, especially in a bigger and harsher competing market, to have money secured upfront. Especially when you do something you know you can deliver because you are doing what you are doing already the last 20 years for every year. And it's a good indicator for him if a kickstarter should fail that his sales will decline and maybe he has to look out for something new before he runs out of money...

 

[Terra]

Did he even mention why he made it a kickstarter? Considering he has been making games for years without the need for that, why did he judge that this project required a kickstart?

My wild guess would be money...

I know that but what excuse did he use to ask for money?

Pretty sure he said it was largely to cover the cost of new art assets for the new setting in the original pitch.

Which leads onto another question; will Jeff be asking for more KS money for a Geneforge remake or will the... "classic" assets be returning for the "remake"?

 

[Pope Amole II]

Which leads onto another question; will Jeff be asking for more KS money for a Geneforge remake or will the... "classic" assets be returning for the "remake"?

He'll make KS and, using that money, he'll recreate them 1 by 1, in all their full glory. That's the biggest injustice around nu-Avernums, btw - people accuse him of reusing the same models when all the models in them were remade from the scratch.

 

[taxalot]

I just saw his GDC speech about how to stay in business.

This is pretty sad.

 

[corvax]

That is one awful trailer. Mom? Seriously? I've been playing Spiderweb games since Geneforge series and even those games look better. I'm one of the Kickstarter backers so I reserve a full right to bitch and moan. It seriously looks like a step-back. When Vogel said he was working on a new engine I had hopes that the game would look less stiff than the others. Also, I really wish some of that Kickstater money went towards character animations because at this point the look is no longer old-school but just old.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

That is one awful trailer. Mom? Seriously? I've been playing Spiderweb games since Geneforge series and even those games look better. I'm one of the Kickstarter backers so I reserve a full right to bitch and moan. It seriously looks like a step-back. When Vogel said he was working on a new engine I had hopes that the game would look less stiff than the others. Also, I really wish some of that Kickstater money went towards character animations because at this point the look is no longer old-school but just old.

https://youtu.be/stxVBJem3Rs?t=1802

 

[Terra]

https://youtu.be/stxVBJem3Rs?t=1802

That's one of the most astute observations I've ever seen Jeff make and he's spot on tbh. Probably the part of his talk that stuck with me since I first watched it. Heck, ask any number of ex-BioWare fans who've found their way to the Codex.

Edit: The "cutting it out" and ignoring negative feedback part is bad & short-sighted though.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

https://youtu.be/stxVBJem3Rs?t=1802

That's one of the most astute observations I've ever seen Jeff make and he's spot on tbh. Probably the part of his talk that stuck with me since I first watched it. Heck, ask any number of ex-BioWare fans who've found their way to the Codex.

Edit: The "cutting it out" and ignoring negative feedback part is bad & short-sighted though.

There's some good and bad in that talk, a reflection of his games. I do find large portions of his talk make him appear unlikeable, perhaps its his staunch commitment to racing to the bottom. Not sure.

 

[Excommunicator]

He's completely right about the whole "fine line between love and hate" and the way the people who complain the most are often the people who love previous games the most. But he's playing a very dangerous game when he starts moving into this discussion about completely cutting yourself off from criticism, removing people who appear to be "starting trouble".

The other side to that coin is that the people who care about what you do enough to go onto a forum to complain are usually the ones who understand what you do best and understand your strengths and weaknesses.

Sometimes they're trolling but sometimes they're complaining because they truly care about the game and their opinions will be more honest and accurate than anyone else who offers it. Ignoring everyone like that might protect your ego but it's a recipe for disaster when you start shutting out the most passionate people in that fanbase in favour of anyone who will blindly praise every little thing you do.

The blind supporters are usually the ones that will allow you to drive yourself off a cliff and try to convince you it's the right decision even when you're in a burning heap at the bottom.

 

[HoboForEternity]

the quickslot bar is the most functional in all vogel games so far.

 

[BlackGoat]

Spoiler

 

[Aemar]

 

[AdolfSatan]

 

[Dayyālu]

I've seen porn games with a better presentation (and better writing than that).

He's completely right about the whole "fine line between love and hate" and the way the people who complain the most are often the people who love previous games the most. But he's playing a very dangerous game when he starts moving into this discussion about completely cutting yourself off from criticism, removing people who appear to be "starting trouble".

See, this is the point. I won't reiterate for the nth time the basics of Vogel's problems, but they are widely known:

+ Complete lack of creativity in worldbuilding and game building. After finishing Geneforge and starting Avadon he pretty much dropped the ball and started throwing out low-tier Bioware clones. Avadon is mediocre at best. I do understand all his experimental stuff like Nethergate failed, but it's not an excuse for dropping the ball completely bar the fact that it's his only job.

+ He's tired and he keeps saying it, and his output kinda proves it. No ideas, stale business model, "I am older than you and a industry veteran so shut up". Vogel was completely wrong about Steam and he borderline managed to get on the Indie train before the crash. I seriously doubt the later Avadons made a good buck on the Steam market (also Steam was evil for Vogel until it wasn't, "industry veteran" my ass).

+ He's doing the minimum and this shows a complete lack of love for his craft. Why improve the graphics? We need the borderline minimum. Why improve the writing? We need the borderline minimum. Why make a good trailer? We need the minimum. Buying a game on brand recognition (Geneforge was good, buy this one must be also) is terrible.


Yes, maybe after so many years I will at last agree with the man itself: he's old, tired, and he has no fucking love for his craft anymore. Being the game equivalent of a Harlequin press writer isn't being a industry veteran. That talk is merely sad. And he doesn't deserve my money.

Get fucked, Jeff. Hope your retirement funds are good, because you aren't getting money from this customer. Good you are willing to ignore them!

 

[Pope Amole II]

and he borderline managed to get on the Indie train before the crash.

Y'know, that's the best illustration of Vogel being right about not reading feedback. You start your post in a seemingly intelligent manner and then you instantly disqualify yourself by posting sensationalist drivel like this. Avadon was fucking killing it in 2011. By the time the crash arrived, his own games have already imploded by a separately different reason - normies were ok to experiment with this shit once or twice but they weren't as interested in buying the same game over and over as his sperglord fans.

 

[Dayyālu]

Y'know, that's the best illustration of Vogel being right about not reading feedback. You start your post in a seemingly intelligent manner and then you instantly disqualify yourself by posting sensationalist drivel like this. Avadon was fucking killing it in 2011. By the time the crash arrived, his own games have already imploded by a separately different reason - normies were ok to experiment with this shit once or twice but they weren't as interested in buying the same game over and over as his sperglord fans.

Why are you agreeing with me, then?

Avadon managed well on Steam because it was his first game on the platform and the market wasn't completely stuck into the nevereding Indie garbage we get today. After the novelty wore off, he got in the same problems as all other cheapo indies, no one was willing to buy his low-efforts game anymore and he failed to gain the same sales (a problem he approached by aggressive Bundle-ing). Furthermore, Vogel at first hated Steam and its business model, before backpedaling hard when he realized the pros.

If you are saying the timing is "off" and that Vogel games already failed to make a dent on the market before the indie crash, well, that depends on what you mean as "indie crash" and when you locate it. Vogel's game got hit by the basic indie plague nonetheless: being stale, not attractive and repetitive on a saturated market where for the same price you can get far better value for your money. Interestingly enough, this means you agree with my position!

Vogel doesn't need the feedback of his customers to be wrong: he can be wrong and fail entirely by himself.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

I think I figured it out: I just don't like Jeff's attitude in general in that talk. I don't actually disagree with most of his points, but really, he's no better than any AAA out there. Similar cynical attitude, yet without the success, and he has that chip on his shoulder that he wears like a badge of honour.

He should up his game (no pun intended).

 

[HoboForEternity]

I've seen porn games with a better presentation (and better writing than that).

He's completely right about the whole "fine line between love and hate" and the way the people who complain the most are often the people who love previous games the most. But he's playing a very dangerous game when he starts moving into this discussion about completely cutting yourself off from criticism, removing people who appear to be "starting trouble".

See, this is the point. I won't reiterate for the nth time the basics of Vogel's problems, but they are widely known:

+ Complete lack of creativity in worldbuilding and game building. After finishing Geneforge and starting Avadon he pretty much dropped the ball and started throwing out low-tier Bioware clones. Avadon is mediocre at best. I do understand all his experimental stuff like Nethergate failed, but it's not an excuse for dropping the ball completely bar the fact that it's his only job.

+ He's tired and he keeps saying it, and his output kinda proves it. No ideas, stale business model, "I am older than you and a industry veteran so shut up". Vogel was completely wrong about Steam and he borderline managed to get on the Indie train before the crash. I seriously doubt the later Avadons made a good buck on the Steam market (also Steam was evil for Vogel until it wasn't, "industry veteran" my ass).

+ He's doing the minimum and this shows a complete lack of love for his craft. Why improve the graphics? We need the borderline minimum. Why improve the writing? We need the borderline minimum. Why make a good trailer? We need the minimum. Buying a game on brand recognition (Geneforge was good, buy this one must be also) is terrible.


Yes, maybe after so many years I will at last agree with the man itself: he's old, tired, and he has no fucking love for his craft anymore. Being the game equivalent of a Harlequin press writer isn't being a industry veteran. That talk is merely sad. And he doesn't deserve my money.

Get fucked, Jeff. Hope your retirement funds are good, because you aren't getting money from this customer. Good you are willing to ignore them!

the thing is, the shit you say he didn't do is the part that keep his company afloat, and his family fed.

 

[Dayyālu]

the thing is, the shit you say he didn't do is the part that keep his company afloat, and his family fed.

And?

We're not talking about a plumber here (no disrespect for plumbers, great guys and here they make a shitton of money). We're talking about a guy who supposedly does a "creative" job. Has any of the last Vogel games shown any love or creativity? Vogel endlessly complains about his age and lack of motivation, shit talks his customers if they dare to complain (or even dare to review his games) and I should have mercy on him because "he's keeping his family fed"?

We're on a RPG forum and we don't run a charity. His last trailer is objectively worse than one for some Patreon porn game, and Patreon porn game makers (as shown by threads on the Codex itself, surprising me quite a bit) are less toxic than Vogel. Yes, I'm unironically using toxic.

Effort and proper community management should be rewarded. Not "bare minimum because tired" and "fuck yourself I don't want to hear you because effort". Do we run a charity here?

"but he has a community of people who keep buying his games"

So has Chris Roberts, and the fuck sells .jpgs.