Are procedural stories the future of RPGs?

[Jedi Master Radek]

Procedural anything is a conspiracy among game devs. It's like a trap they lure other suckers into it. Only devs fall for it, not gamers.

Why? Because gamers like to play things that are made by people, not machine or codes. Only developers would be lured by the "beauty" of procedural anything, be it story, chain quest, world generator, etc...

It aims so precisely at game developers, psychologically, I am surprised they dont recognize it.

Any dev that thinks procedural generation is a good idea should quit making games. They can't comprehend how games work on a higher level.

 

[Lacrymas]

One of the main draws of replaying an RPG is seeing how different characters will fare in the same environment. That's what C&C is all about, but also the mechanical differences in the same fights. This also doesn't take into account that hand-crafted things are better because they can go beyond the moment-to-moment. So no, procedurally generated stories aren't the future of RPGs.

 

[Big Wrangle]

Make some surreal comedy RPG with procedually generated dialogue nonsense for the NPCs, like Oblivion at its best moments.

 

[Makabb]

Did no one actualy watch the video with Tarn Adams?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I think procedural gen is part of the future, but not the whole future. You're still going to need pieces being handcrafted in a game like an RPG, or at least a serious RPG/CRPG. But more can be done with radiant questing and level design, yeah. So it's just a part of the future.

 

[Exhuminator]

A long time ago in the far distant year of 2004, some very smart dudes made a kickass procedurally generated FPS. Now I understand RPGs are quite a bit more complicated (well depending on the developer), but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that a good procedurally generated RPG is possible. I mean, I love me some roguelikes and they work off that principle. Having story elements, sidequests, and overarching campaign goals be procedurally generated is possible with today's technology already. The trick is making high quality algorithms that will generate entertaining text that maintains a cohesive narrative. I don't think we're far from that at all honestly. Lots of online news articles are already procedurally generated for instance.

 

[Makabb]

he trick is making high quality algorithms that will generated entertaining text that maintains a cohesive narrative. I don't think we're far from that at all honestly

Dwarf fortress will have this with the 'villains' update that is coming pretty soon.

Dwarf Fortress will be the first game ever to have a 'procedural story'.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

And I'll be buying DF as soon as it goes on sale on Steam.

 

[Makabb]

And I'll be buying DF as soon as it goes on sale on Steam.

It will be only 20$, and the 'villains' come before steam, so steam release will already have them.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

It will also be a graphical version with a tileset. Well worth paying for.

 

[Makabb]

Tarn Adams got PHD in mathematics, so he knows his algorithms bretty gud.

 

[Tweed]

It will also be a graphical version with a tileset. Well worth paying for.

More importantly it will finally add transsexual dwarves.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Procedural has its uses, but it's mostly a buzzword to attract retarded newfags who:

1. Value quantity over quantity
2. Actually are retarded enough to not realize procedural most of the time means doing the same thing over and over again with some small variations and not "infinite content".

 

[anvi]

I think procedural stories will be used in most games after a while. The main reason is that companies today are all about finding ways to cut corners and cut costs. If they can release some half assed junk that fools enough people into thinking it is similar to their previous work, then they will do it. I could list 1000 games that are exactly like this. Eventually they will make a story generator and the people who like stories are dumb and childlike anyway, so most of them won't even be able to notice any difference with a procedurally generated story. And those games will still sell well enough that everyone will do it. Procedural worlds, procedural stories, and eventually there will be procedural content too. Kind of like "RPG Maker", companies will just pay a third party to procedurally generate a bunch of quests and locations and shit, and Bethesda or whoever will plop it into their game and sell 100 million copies.

Anyone who disagrees with this, think about GTA5. Do you really think any of that is unique? You could feed 20 crappy movie scripts into a machine and it could mass produce stories based on those fundamentals easily. GTA5 seems exactly like it was made by such a machine. Former bank robber, white collar criminal, struggling with family life after retiring, gets dragged back into the game for one last robbery to pay some debts and settle some scores, like Carlito's Way and a thousand other films. Meanwhile, Trevor is a psychotic nut that sees aliens and wants to kill everyone, like Natural Born Killers and whatnot, and lastly, token black guy, born in the hood, wants to be all gangster n shit and get rich n shit and smoke weed errr day in his mansion n shit.

 

[Lacrymas]

Nobody is denying it can technically work and be coherent, but a machine can't plan an odyssey, so at most we'll get very basic motivations and plot structures. AAA games are already dried up husks I can't subject myself to, so what they do is beyond irrelevant.

 

[111111111]

my proc gen ck2 stories were way better than anything obsidian came up so maybe u rite.

 

[mondblut]

So I hope. Muh story is cancer.

 

[luj1]

As far as RPGs go, down with algorithmic garbage really. Best worlds have been produced painstakingly, by hand.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Nobody is denying it can technically work and be coherent, but a machine can't plan an odyssey, so at most we'll get very basic motivations and plot structures. AAA games are already dried up husks I can't subject myself to, so what they do is beyond irrelevant.

Machine learning definitely can produce an odyssey.
The entire argument in this thread is "wow, simple algorithms are bad therefore all procgen will forever be bad", you sound like Luddites.

 

[Sacred82]

just ask yourself if procedural stories are the future for any kind of storytelling.

Literature and cinema will plummet to new lows, millenial agenda achieved

 

[Agame]

Tarn Adams got PHD in mathematics, so he knows his algorithms bretty gud.

Makabb its adorable that you have just discovered Dwarf Fortress, I guess the new casual retard graphics really have expanded its audience!

And to your OP, hmm...

NO.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I also think there's lots of room for emergent stories, personal stories and emergent gameplay like a game like Kenshi or Dwarf Fortress has. It has emergent storytelling in that the pieces meld together in a randomized but unique way that each player will have their own "story" told by the gameplay mechanics and their experience with them. This can often lead to far more interesting results than a typical handmade story in that it makes the game fresh each time you play it, even from session to session. I'd like to see more of this approach with handcrafted pieces fitting together randomly in a proc-gen puzzle, creating the emergent story.

 

[Lurker47]

 

[anvi]

Nobody is denying it can technically work and be coherent, but a machine can't plan an odyssey, so at most we'll get very basic motivations and plot structures. AAA games are already dried up husks I can't subject myself to, so what they do is beyond irrelevant.

A machine can do whatever you program it to do. They can easily program it to have a start middle and ending and piece together the specifics with parts of 10000 existing stories fed into it. I wouldn't even be surprised if it was better than most of the stories we get in games now. The bar is so low.

 

[anvi]

To me the biggest problem is that it doesn't cost them much to make a story anyway. If they were hiring professional writers for each game then a story generator would be really valuable. But most of the time I think it is an amateur writer at best, usually not even a writer, some programmer or artist that thinks they can write will give it a shot. And that's why you end up with so many weak stories in games.