KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

[Heretic]

Nice forum migration. All old posts have the same timestamp, the time of migration.

No. "Mar '15" means "March of 2015" with that shit forum software. You only get an exact date if the post is recent.

I forgot to mention I browse with Javascript turned off, and there Discourse really shows the time of the migration

 

[a Goat]

So yeah. Take money from KS, mentionning VR in your updates. Keep saying VR is coming while your game is releasing ( from december 2018 ):

VR is a failure, expect more situations like this.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I did and I will play the game once I receive it.

What? I haven't played the game yet... I will once I receive the collectors edition and the game is patched up. Don't conflate that with waiting for physical media.

 

[Nano]

What? I haven't played the game yet... I will once I receive the collectors edition and the game is patched up. Don't conflate that with waiting for physical media.

No, the Prosper was meant for the fact that the Collector's Edition apparently still hasn't been released after 5 months.

 

[Avonaeon]

The soundtrack is extremely underwhelming. 8 tracks, 17 minutes long, 4 minutes (across 2 tracks) of which are backer-specific songs that I can't imagine anyone but those specific backers caring about. Considering they mentioned "more music" as well as "enhanced music" on 2 separate stretch goals, that kinda stings. I was really hoping the soundtrack would have redeemed this a little, but

 

[MasterLobar]

Avonaeon

Re that kickstarter video, I am wondering: What happened to the music?

It's actually pretty cool, but they didn't use it in the game at all.

They still have it on their YT channel though.

I suspect that they would have to pay an additional fee to the composer if they used the music in the game. Once they saw what a mess their game is, it was clear that a cool soundtrack wouldn't make much of a difference and so they just recycled the 25 year-old Underworld music.

 

[Max Heap]

I wonder why they dropped the Ultima/Avatar font for the title and whether it was a legal problem or if they deliberately wanted to distance themselves from UUW.
I mean the easiest explanation could also be that they didn't like it anymore... apparently like the rest of the original.

 

[agris]

We know for a fact that they put the project on hold for half that time, and that less than 15 devs worked full-time on it, and the salaries certainly didn't amount to $100K/year.

I've got my own theories about how they funded this, but $100k/yr for an entry level programmer is low for Boston. Remember, that cost needs to include health insurance. It's probably more like ~$135k minimum per developer, plus rent, utilities, overhead (admin staff - that have health insurance as well), etc.

Codex cannot into running a business. I know some of these values seem crazy to those outside the US, or hell, even to those living in the southern parts of the US, but that's the market. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment near boston will cost you ~2.5k+/mo, easily. Shitty food is $12/plate. Welcome to the north east!

 

[Metro]

Can confirm. There were some parts of Boston that were reasonably priced about a decade ago but by now they've probably gentrified all of the outlying neighborhoods so it cost an arm and a leg to live there even if you're like twenty minutes outside of the city.

 

[MasterLobar]

On sale again for $14.99.

 

[BEvers]

OtherSide Plays Underworld Ascendant (Update 3)

Lead Engineer Will Teixeira, Community Manager Sam Luangkhot, QA Lead Brian Jennings and QA Amanda Rivett play through some areas of Underworld Ascendant to highlight changes from Update 3. This was originally streamed on Twitch.

 

[Feargus Jewhart]

I wonder why they dropped the Ultima/Avatar font for the title and whether it was a legal problem or if they deliberately wanted to distance themselves from UUW.
I mean the easiest explanation could also be that they didn't like it anymore... apparently like the rest of the original.

Its so they can resurface again in 10 years for another cash grab "REMEMBER ULTIMA?".

 

[udm]

Out of curiosity, have Paul Neurath and Tim Stellmach come forth to talk about the game after its release? We hear a lot from Joe Fielder and Warren Faggot, but what about the former two?

 

[JarlFrank]

We know for a fact that they put the project on hold for half that time, and that less than 15 devs worked full-time on it, and the salaries certainly didn't amount to $100K/year.

I've got my own theories about how they funded this, but $100k/yr for an entry level programmer is low for Boston. Remember, that cost needs to include health insurance. It's probably more like ~$135k minimum per developer, plus rent, utilities, overhead (admin staff - that have health insurance as well), etc.

Codex cannot into running a business. I know some of these values seem crazy to those outside the US, or hell, even to those living in the southern parts of the US, but that's the market. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment near boston will cost you ~2.5k+/mo, easily. Shitty food is $12/plate. Welcome to the north east!

It always boggles my mind why mid-sized game dev studios choose to locate themselves in such terribly overplaced locations where the costs of production are driven up astronomically just because you need to pay your employees twice as much as elsewhere if you want them to be able to pay for rent and food.

 

[thesheeep]

We know for a fact that they put the project on hold for half that time, and that less than 15 devs worked full-time on it, and the salaries certainly didn't amount to $100K/year.

I've got my own theories about how they funded this, but $100k/yr for an entry level programmer is low for Boston. Remember, that cost needs to include health insurance. It's probably more like ~$135k minimum per developer, plus rent, utilities, overhead (admin staff - that have health insurance as well), etc.

Codex cannot into running a business. I know some of these values seem crazy to those outside the US, or hell, even to those living in the southern parts of the US, but that's the market. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment near boston will cost you ~2.5k+/mo, easily. Shitty food is $12/plate. Welcome to the north east!

It always boggles my mind why mid-sized game dev studios choose to locate themselves in such terribly overplaced locations where the costs of production are driven up astronomically just because you need to pay your employees twice as much as elsewhere if you want them to be able to pay for rent and food.

Because good luck trying to get capable people to move into the middle of nowhere just because the rents are low there...

 

[BEvers]

Because good luck trying to get capable people to move into the middle of nowhere just because the rents are low there...

That's why a lot of inXile's employees work remote, and a big chunk of their design work is outsourced to studios in cheaper areas (rural North Carolina in BT4's case).

 

[Steamboat Willie]

Because good luck trying to get capable people to move into the middle of nowhere just because the rents are low there...

Yeah just think OSE would have never found all those "capable people" to create UA had they been somewhere other than Boston.

 

[thesheeep]

Because good luck trying to get capable people to move into the middle of nowhere just because the rents are low there...

Yeah just think OSE would have never found all those "capable people" to create UA had they been somewhere other than Boston.

Well, that just shows that even a higher profile location is not a guarantee. You still have to select the right people... Though in this case I think the fault lies with the management & leadership, not the artists & programmers.
A good artist given crappy direction won't suddenly produce something great.

That's why a lot of inXile's employees work remote, and a big chunk of their design work is outsourced to studios in cheaper areas (rural North Carolina in BT4's case).

If so, that just affirms what I wrote above, I think.

 

[MasterLobar]

Though in this case I think the fault lies with the management & leadership, not the artists & programmers. A good artist given crappy direction won't suddenly produce something great.

That's absolutely right. Joe Fielder sounds like he is a really nice guy who could have made a really cool game. Too bad those sociopaths at OS ruined his career.

 

[MasterLobar]

"We made so many improvements..."

7:36 - Skeleton is clipping through grating and can be attacked while behind it
14:15 - "You can summon a man. He will stab you immediately." Summoned man ignores player, walks away.
18:07 - Switch to open cage and free lizard is right next to cage, easily in reach of lizard, so why can't lizard free himself?
21:10 - Developer says you can lock yourself in the cage and open it from within (but the lizard can't ??)
31:15 - Skeletons ignore the player when attacked, get mowed down by magic without any response
...

Stopped watching. So boring.

 

[JarlFrank]

We know for a fact that they put the project on hold for half that time, and that less than 15 devs worked full-time on it, and the salaries certainly didn't amount to $100K/year.

I've got my own theories about how they funded this, but $100k/yr for an entry level programmer is low for Boston. Remember, that cost needs to include health insurance. It's probably more like ~$135k minimum per developer, plus rent, utilities, overhead (admin staff - that have health insurance as well), etc.

Codex cannot into running a business. I know some of these values seem crazy to those outside the US, or hell, even to those living in the southern parts of the US, but that's the market. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment near boston will cost you ~2.5k+/mo, easily. Shitty food is $12/plate. Welcome to the north east!

It always boggles my mind why mid-sized game dev studios choose to locate themselves in such terribly overplaced locations where the costs of production are driven up astronomically just because you need to pay your employees twice as much as elsewhere if you want them to be able to pay for rent and food.

Because good luck trying to get capable people to move into the middle of nowhere just because the rents are low there...

I'd rather work somewhere with lower living costs than higher living costs, so I actually have more money left over to spend on luxuries, save on my bank account, invest, etc, than live somewhere ridiculously expensive.

 

[thesheeep]

We know for a fact that they put the project on hold for half that time, and that less than 15 devs worked full-time on it, and the salaries certainly didn't amount to $100K/year.

I've got my own theories about how they funded this, but $100k/yr for an entry level programmer is low for Boston. Remember, that cost needs to include health insurance. It's probably more like ~$135k minimum per developer, plus rent, utilities, overhead (admin staff - that have health insurance as well), etc.

Codex cannot into running a business. I know some of these values seem crazy to those outside the US, or hell, even to those living in the southern parts of the US, but that's the market. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment near boston will cost you ~2.5k+/mo, easily. Shitty food is $12/plate. Welcome to the north east!

It always boggles my mind why mid-sized game dev studios choose to locate themselves in such terribly overplaced locations where the costs of production are driven up astronomically just because you need to pay your employees twice as much as elsewhere if you want them to be able to pay for rent and food.

Because good luck trying to get capable people to move into the middle of nowhere just because the rents are low there...

I'd rather work somewhere with lower living costs than higher living costs, so I actually have more money left over to spend on luxuries, save on my bank account, invest, etc, than live somewhere ridiculously expensive.

Maybe you do.
Most people with highly sought after skillsets don't. Why do you think city rents are exploding? Because most people want to live in (big) cities. Debating the reasons for that serves no real purpose. It is what it is.

 

[agris]

We know for a fact that they put the project on hold for half that time, and that less than 15 devs worked full-time on it, and the salaries certainly didn't amount to $100K/year.

I've got my own theories about how they funded this, but $100k/yr for an entry level programmer is low for Boston. Remember, that cost needs to include health insurance. It's probably more like ~$135k minimum per developer, plus rent, utilities, overhead (admin staff - that have health insurance as well), etc.

Codex cannot into running a business. I know some of these values seem crazy to those outside the US, or hell, even to those living in the southern parts of the US, but that's the market. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment near boston will cost you ~2.5k+/mo, easily. Shitty food is $12/plate. Welcome to the north east!

It always boggles my mind why mid-sized game dev studios choose to locate themselves in such terribly overplaced locations where the costs of production are driven up astronomically just because you need to pay your employees twice as much as elsewhere if you want them to be able to pay for rent and food.

Let me inject some more reality into these conversations.

From a purely fiscal point of view, you're obviously correct. From a logistics point of view, Otherside as a company only exists, and thus was funded, due to the names attached to it. Those industry "veterans" (given what we know now, the PTSD / disability connotations may be the most appropriate) mostly lived in Boston, and are of an age to have spouses with significantly developed careers in the area, children in the school systems, significant property ownership, and family and friends that make up their support network. These are not your unattached 20-somethings fresh out of school / the basement who are happy to move to Austin, Kansas City, or New Orleans for cheaper OPEX.

Given their veteran status, such significant start-up costs could be understandable based on an anticipated ROI. Given hindsight and the objective state of their work product, it was clearly pouring money down a drain to support the continued livelihood of people who do not understand how to make a game.

To me, the real interesting question that comes out of this whole fiasco is: what is missing from the old days that enabled UU and the LGS of old? Some may say it's age, lack of inspiration or drive to really put in the work and create something new, but as I personally age and work with older folks - I find the opposite to be true. Often the older people get, the more they relish in using their skills to great effect. I find the 'burn out has-been' excuse too pat. So: what changed between the old games and the new? My guess is that there were some key people involved in the old games that don't have the same name recognition (edit) and were not part of Otherside. Doctor Sbaitso Infinitron anyone you can think of from the Underworld and Thief days that may have been a key creative or pragmatic driving force that wasn't involved with this current hot mess?

 

[Infinitron]

Often the older people get, the more they relish in using their skills to great effect.

I think they found that their skills and experience were no longer relevant given the constraints they'd set for themselves (budget and design goals). Coding an "evolved" late 1980s blobber (basically what Ultima Underworld was) turns out be different from trying to twist the Unity Engine into the Ultimate Action RPG with Dark Messiah combat, Thief stealth and Arx Fatalis magic (or whatever).

As I've said, the thing about this game isn't that they "failed to recapture the magic" or some cliche like that. It's that they plunged into the abyss (heh) apparently unaware until the last minute that they had no idea what they were even doing. Coming from this team, it's got to rank as one of the strangest and most terrible things that's ever happened in the gaming industry.

 

[MasterLobar]

18:07 - Switch to open cage and free lizard is right next to cage, easily in reach of lizard, so why can't lizard free himself?
21:10 - Developer says you can lock yourself in the cage and open it from within (but the lizard can't ??)

I have now learned that the lizard in the cage was added in Update 3 as part of the introduction of new NPCs the player can "rescue" and who then help them fight the other monsters (indeed, the lizard attacks the skeletons with magic once freed).

But seriously, who made this update? Has that person been thinking about what they were doing? Why didn't they place that f**ing switch two meters to the right so it can't be used from within the cage????

This is so dumb it hurts.