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KickStarter Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption - adventure-RPG from the creators of Quest for Glory

Blackthorne

Infamous Quests
Patron
Developer
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
981
Location
Syracuse NY
Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
We all make mis-steps in making games. I often think that a lot of it is just luck - the lottery phenomenon. I mean, you have to have a decent game - even a good game. (There's still some shitty ones that squeak through and are somehow successful) and there's always a list of things you did wrong... having infrastructure and discipline is key to a good project. Good organization of duties and clear objectives are a must. You also HAVE to be solid on your design - I think Hero-U was a bit too amorphous and allowed to change too much. Also, honestly, I think the $35 price point hurt them WAY above almost all other considerations. They really screwed the pooch with that move.... out the gate, if it sold for $19.99 with an opening sale of $14.99 they probably would have sold more copies especially with the "new game buzz". Now they're trying to play catch up, and I don't mean to sound overly cynical, but they will NEVER catch up. It'll chug along for a couple years, with a steady tail and more players... but never a big glut.

I look back on my own adventures and I never wanted to be like ridiculously successful, I just wanted to be able to make enough to make more games. That was always my goal - be able to make more games. I'll never be able to make a game with the size and scope of Quest for Infamy, but now I keep it smaller and it's now my hobby, not my job. I'm happy in that.
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
After all, Quest for Infamy was developed for $60k.

Honestly, that was only possible because of how much of a passion project it was for us at the time. You'd never get professionals in the industry to work full-time on the budget we had. I would absolutely do it all over again if I could, as I imagine would most of us who worked on the game, but we were all basically adventure game superfans in it for the love of the project. I absolutely wouldn't hold us up as an example to suggest that games of this type don't need a more significant budget. We were the exception rather than the rule.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
After all, Quest for Infamy was developed for $60k.

Honestly, that was only possible because of how much of a passion project it was for us at the time. You'd never get professionals in the industry to work full-time on the budget we had. I would absolutely do it all over again if I could, as I imagine would most of us who worked on the game, but we were all basically adventure game superfans in it for the love of the project. I absolutely wouldn't hold us up as an example to suggest that games of this type don't need a more significant budget. We were the exception rather than the rule.
Well, the very next part of what you quoted is:
After all, Quest for Infamy was developed for $60k. I've written before about how indie projects' Kickstarters/budgets can be misleading -- since so much of the labor is underpaid or unpaid -- but in this case, it seems like funny business in the other direction.
I didn't think it was necessary to repeat all I'd said on that subject (for example, here), but I think we're generally on the same page.

However, I think this is an exceptional case since, among other things, there's no evidence that Hero-U was made by "professional in the industry ... workin[ing] full-time" on the game. My The question really is whether, for the money they got, they could have made a QFG IV-like game. Does anyone seriously believe that they wouldn't have been able to? Let me be more blunt about it. If the Coles had asked me to work for free on the project, I would have said yes. I suspect the same is true for Blackthorne, perhaps for you, likely for Vic (Primordia's artist), likely for Primordia's coder. And I'm sure many others. And if they'd offered some relatively small sums, $5k here and there, I bet they could've had a team of folks like you guys, Matt Frith, Ben Chandler, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they could've hired WEG to do the VO for <$10k.

So the idea put forth in the post-mortem -- that a QFG IV-like game helmed by the Coles could not have been made in 2012 using AGS for $409,150 -- strikes me as patently absurd. I cited the $60k figure for QFI not to say that a commercial QFG IV-like game can easily be made for that sum, but to suggest that when the Coles had 6.7 times that amount, plus their own prestige and experience, they could have made a game like QFG IV by leveraging an existing engine, artists and designers with actual experience making adventure games like QFG IV, and fans of QFG who would love to help them out. That's all!
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
The question really is whether, for the money they got, they could have made a QFG IV-like game. Does anyone seriously believe that they wouldn't have been able to? Let me be more blunt about it. If the Coles had asked me to work for free on the project, I would have said yes. I suspect the same is true for Blackthorne, perhaps for you, likely for Vic (Primordia's artist), likely for Primordia's coder. And I'm sure many others. And if they'd offered some relatively small sums, $5k here and there, I bet they could've had a team of folks like you guys, Matt Frith, Ben Chandler, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they could've hired WEG to do the VO for <$10k.

So the idea put forth in the post-mortem -- that a QFG IV-like game helmed by the Coles could not have been made in 2012 using AGS for $409,150 -- strikes me as patently absurd. I cited the $60k figure for QFI not to say that a commercial QFG IV-like game can easily be made for that sum, but to suggest that when the Coles had 6.7 times that amount, plus their own prestige and experience, they could have made a game like QFG IV by leveraging an existing engine, artists and designers with actual experience making adventure games like QFG IV, and fans of QFG who would love to help them out. That's all!

Excellent points. I agree completely. In fact, I seem to recall many exasperated behind-the-scenes chats in the Infamous Quests developer forums on exactly this topic! :)
 

Blackthorne

Infamous Quests
Patron
Developer
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
981
Location
Syracuse NY
Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Excellent points. I agree completely. In fact, I seem to recall many exasperated behind-the-scenes chats in the Infamous Quests developer forums on exactly this topic! :)

Boy, so true. Also, there was about 20k of additional money from personal soruces in the QFI development too, I'd really put it near 80k... but still, if we had the money the Cole's had, we could have made like three QFI games, and actually paid people okay. Not great, but ok. Like Lambonius said - we were a group of superfans working on a passion project.


Bt
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
I honestly can't fathom where they have wasted the money. Must have hired some AAA devs to do some part of the game or something similar. Where else they could have been wasted? When you get a far superior product for a twentieth of the money. I am tired of all those magic developers of old that make a bunch of money on a promise and end up spend it creating something that nobody wanted. People gathered money for a quest for glory-esque game and not for a shitty harry potter fanfic.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
When Corey posted here claiming making a Quest for Glory game was impossible unless you somehow "exploited" people (As if "Hey guise, do you wanna your work seen on a Quest for Glory spiritual successor that will appear on the media as so? so you can paste all those juicy pixel art from indie recognizable game on your freelance site of choice?" Nope, we won't do it because it is "exploitation".), of course the average salary for a programmer on the US is 70.000 dollars a year and it is lower for indie game programmers, so even if you don't pay "peanuts" as Corey claimed and wanted to pay full time, you would hardly burn that cash that way they did.

One thing that made wiser about kickstarter projects is that developers claim not enough budget when they actually mean development hell so they don't have enough of a budget, they, of course, always do that little omission of forgetting that little development hell part, that is just a detail.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
In fairness, the post mortem is quite candid about development hell, which is why I think it’s overall quite good
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
They're still clinging on. In 2019, they've gotten 19 reviews, 78% of which are positive. That's not nothing. The game can still but up a solid 10+ simultaneous players every couple of weeks, which is also not too bad for an indie adventure. (Primordia, for instance, hasn't broken 10+ players since mid March.) My guess is that they're still selling a couple dozen copies a week. It doesn't sound like much, but every player they reach is an achievement, I think.

My instinct would be for them to do a 75% or even 90% off sale and just try to generate some buzz for the next game.
 

Taluntain

Most Frabjous
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Messages
5,439
Location
Your Mind
My instinct would be for them to quit what they're doing because it's more likely that they'll dig themselves deeper in debt than out of it.
 

Boleskine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
4,045
Is it me or does this game have a Hero-U feel to it?



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About This Game
A light Tactics RPG inspired by Final Fantasy Tactics and Steven Universe. Fight for survival in thrilling tactical combat! Unravel the sinister mysteries behind the bizarre tournament! And don't forget to make some new friends.

It was hard enough for Alicia to make friends at prestigious Wintermoor Academy before the whole school erupted into a snowball tournament! Now, her tiny Tactics Club must transform from nerdy nobodies into the heroes they play in their tabletop campaign, or they'll be disbanded forever.
Features
  • Tactical Combat: Play Curses & Catacombs, the premier roleplaying game of 1981.
  • Explore the School: Make friends and solve mysteries in an evolving environment.
  • Meet the Clubs: Young Monarchists. Psychic Detectives. Your opponents burn with conviction and uncanny snowball prowess.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/2498875

Keeping Up With Hero-U
Posted by Corey Cole (Creator)


We're doing a livestream tonight (May 4, 2019) on YouTube starting at 6 pm PDT (3 a.m. UTC on May 5) and ending at midnight (9 a.m. UTC). Corey and Lori will play partway through Quest for Glory III: Wages of War (aka Seekers of the Lost City) and answer questions. Roberta Vaughan is hosting and will be running contests and giving away several amazing prizes donated by Himalaya Studios, artists, and the Coles.


May the Fourth Be With... Lori and Corey Cole


The stream is supposed to be at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJLMIcRLZWw. If you don't find it there, find the Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption channel on YouTube and look for the livestream there. We'll also be saving the entire livestream as a video so you can watch it later. Subscribe to the channel to keep up with all of our YouTube content posts.

While you're at it, subscribe to our Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/TheSchoolForHeroes/ - to keep up with Hero-U projects including next year's Summer Daze at Hero-U.

We've also created a Discord server for discussion of our games and related topics. Join us at https://discord.gg/Z7dp47M. This will be our main discussion forum in the future.

Finally, after many requests, Corey and Lori have set up a Patreon page for fans who would like to help us afford to continue making games. We'll be posting a lot of unique content there including comics and articles from our 1980's fantasy gaming newsletter, The Spell Book. We'll also include articles from Corey and Lori's Quest Blog on the original School for Heroes website as well as new articles, artwork, and art photography.

The Patreon page is https://www.patreon.com/coreyloricole . Our tiers are $2/month, which will get you most of the Patreon material and access to a special Discord channel for patrons, and $10/month, which will also include a new desktop wallpaper each month and occasional special rewards.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/2505373

Hero-U Shipping Status May 2019 - Important!
Posted by Corey Cole (Creator)


John at Geekify has notified me that they have completed Hero-U physical rewards shipments. If you expected a shipment and did not receive it, send email to support@hero-u.net and a copy to fulfillment@geekifyinc.com. And check the list of names below.

I am still getting occasional emails from Hero-U backers who do not know how to get their game keys. We released the game 10 months ago, and the final patch went out in February, 3 months ago. To get your downloads, log on to https://hero-u-adventure-role-playing-game.backerkit.com/backer/digital_rewards. This applies to backers of both our 2012 and 2015 Kickstarter campaigns, as well as people who ordered the game from the https://www.hero-u.com website.

Missing Pieces
We still haven't posted the "Art of Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption" digital book. Lori is splitting her time between getting that done and directing Summer Daze at Hero-U.

We also have not yet completed the Yearbook; a volunteer is finishing it for us. When it's done, we'll upload the digital version to all backers. Then we'll start the laborious process of printing physical copies and mailing them with autographs on bookplates to backers with the autographed Yearbook reward.

The last missing digital piece is the Hint Book. We've actually had that "almost done" for several months. It just needs some verification from me that I plan to finish in the next two weeks. It will be web-based, and we plan to make it available to all backers and purchasers of Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption.

Remaining to be shipped are the Yearbook and autographed boxes. I forgot that we promised autographed boxes to some backers. Fortunately, these are mostly the same backers who are getting Yearbooks. When the Yearbooks are ready, Lori and I plan to include two autographed stickers - One as a bookplate for the Yearbook, and one appropriate to put on your game box or manual. Of course, anyone to whom we owe an autographed box, but not a Yearbook, will get the latter sticker in the mail.

Incidentally, Lori and I just mailed out autographed postcards to everyone who ordered them. We sent them in padded envelopes, so hopefully they all arrived in pristine condition.

Bounced Shipments
Here’s the list from Geekify of all returned shipments. If your name is on this list, email support@hero-u.net and fulfillment@geekifyinc.com immediately. If you see a friend’s name, point them to this update.
  • Ivan Yagolnikov
  • Patrick Stansky
  • John kernast
  • Greg Kahn
  • Dominic Torruellas
  • Alex Kain
  • Kimmo Knutars
  • Colin Davis
  • Alvin Tan
  • Christina McCarthy
  • Martin Moen
  • Rachel Johnson
  • Catherine Howell
  • Adam Rippon
  • Jer Wallis
  • Joseph Emory
  • Seth Paul
  • Charles Dorger
  • Colin Mclaughlin
  • Caingillespie
  • Zack Finer
  • Christopher Martin
  • Thor Howe
  • Dan Baxter
  • Oscar Cepero
  • Joshua Kissel
  • John Kernast
  • Donny Todd
  • Erik Novak
  • Benjamin Wyatt
  • Jlykens
  • Joshua Day
  • Nathan Williams
  • Ben Lindelof
  • Joshua Day
  • Blair Smith
 

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