World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

inb4 we'll get activities - "kill 100 ghouls!", "sabbat rampage!", "ventrue tower jumping!".

 

[Prime Junta]

Man, I was waiting for a game to finally implement proper updrafts. I mean I can barely keep my dog from floating away because of all the updrafts in my town. I'm sure those updrafts will be implemented organically during level design and not include giant floor fans for no reason.

Does Seattle have a subway system?

 

[Cael]

inb4 we'll get activities - "kill 100 ghouls!", "sabbat rampage!", "ventrue tower jumping!".

Tremere:

Toreador:

Assamite:

 

[True Ukrainian]

I am more curious to see whether Paradox can keep the hype train going for an entire year before the game actually comes out.

 

[FreeKaner]

They don't even need to, the hardcore fans of VTMB are already in a permanent state of hype until the game comes out.

 

[Zombra]

I am more curious to see whether Paradox can keep the hype train going for an entire year before the game actually comes out.

HYPETRAIN x 1

 

[Tweed]

It's what happens after the hypetrain pulls into the station that I'm more concerned with, deep down in my black, cynical, heart of hearts I'd like for this to be a good game.

 

[Storyfag]

They don't even need to, the hardcore fans of VTMB are already in a permanent state of hype until the game comes out.

You exaggerate. I basically worship VTMB, but I am definitely not hyped about VTMB2. Esp since the Thinblood "Clan" reveal. Ugh.

 

[FreeKaner]

They don't even need to, the hardcore fans of VTMB are already in a permanent state of hype until the game comes out.

You exaggerate. I basically worship VTMB, but I am definitely not hyped about VTMB2. Esp since the Thinblood "Clan" reveal. Ugh.

I don't mean the people here.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

From a narrative persective making the PC at least start off as a Thin-Blood makes a lot of sense, it's probably the most natural way of giving that "grand tour" of things in the setting from bottom up and give a clear sense of character progression.

I'm more curious that they seem to have dug up Kineticism from some attic it was left buried in.

Thinbloods are not a clan are they??

Not really, of course. They just tend strongly to be Caitiff because no one will have them, so they're sort of, unofficially, their own clan. In game terms, anyway, not in-world.

Also kind of important Caitiff are not defined by Generation and are not necessarily thin-bloods.

Love how thinbloods get abilities that Clan kindred would kill to get. It seems that being a thinblood in wokeVamp is better than being part of a Clan. Must be the "muh oppreshun" factor.

Well yes and no really, Thin-Bloods have less of a bad time with the sun but conversily they have a much worse time with bullets without a merit, and while they can temporarily gain disciplines via Blood Resonance they cannot learn disciplines at all (and with a merit they can learn *one* discipline). Thin-Bloods also have to take additional flaws compared to others (aforementioned two merits require this, Thin-Bloods take additional flaws specific to them, and for each up to three an additional merit specific to them). Basically as a whole it's part of the overall shift to try and move Vampire to a more lower level of perspective, cutting down on the number of superpowerful NPCs around while trying to make Thin-Bloods and 13th Generation more useful and viable instead of basically NPCs-Only stuff (because let's be honest, nobody would NOT have Generation 5 in their background if they weren't making some bullshit RPing excuse for themselves; come to think of it, Generation is also removed from background options).

Blood Alchemy is basically an example of why nobody should ever be allowed to come up with ritual systems because they'll come up with silly shit like three years to research a formula. I personally don't like this potion shit much, but they wanted a vampire meth lab so they gots them a vampire meth lab. I still like it more than the sort of bullshit they cook up for how old characters are. Neonates in 2019, embraced in nineteen-fucking-forty? This sort of bullshit of passage of time being utterly irrelevant was always dumb with Vampire. Then again, in Bloodlines Strauss calls LaCroix (embraced in 1815) a neonate, just so your head can explode.

 

[Cael]

From a narrative persective making the PC at least start off as a Thin-Blood makes a lot of sense, it's probably the most natural way of giving that "grand tour" of things in the setting from bottom up and give a clear sense of character progression.

I'm more curious that they seem to have dug up Kineticism from some attic it was left buried in.

Thinbloods are not a clan are they??

Not really, of course. They just tend strongly to be Caitiff because no one will have them, so they're sort of, unofficially, their own clan. In game terms, anyway, not in-world.

Also kind of important Caitiff are not defined by Generation and are not necessarily thin-bloods.

Love how thinbloods get abilities that Clan kindred would kill to get. It seems that being a thinblood in wokeVamp is better than being part of a Clan. Must be the "muh oppreshun" factor.

Well yes and no really, Thin-Bloods have less of a bad time with the sun but conversily they have a much worse time with bullets without a merit, and while they can temporarily gain disciplines via Blood Resonance they cannot learn disciplines at all (and with a merit they can learn *one* discipline). Thin-Bloods also have to take additional flaws compared to others (aforementioned two merits require this, Thin-Bloods take additional flaws specific to them, and for each up to three an additional merit specific to them). Basically as a whole it's part of the overall shift to try and move Vampire to a more lower level of perspective, cutting down on the number of superpowerful NPCs around while trying to make Thin-Bloods and 13th Generation more useful and viable instead of basically NPCs-Only stuff (because let's be honest, nobody would NOT have Generation 5 in their background if they weren't making some bullshit RPing excuse for themselves; come to think of it, Generation is also removed from background options).

Blood Alchemy is basically an example of why nobody should ever be allowed to come up with ritual systems because they'll come up with silly shit like three years to research a formula. I personally don't like this potion shit much, but they wanted a vampire meth lab so they gots them a vampire meth lab. I still like it more than the sort of bullshit they cook up for how old characters are (Neonates in 2019, embraced in nineteen-fucking-forty? This sort of bullshit of passage of time being utterly irrelevant was always dumb with Vampire).

Mist is a level 5 Protean ability and you can't even get to that level unless you are 8th gen or something like that. A thinblood getting it off the bat? Woke oppreshun factor.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm more curious that they seem to have dug up Kineticism from some attic it was left buried in.

One of the few things that give me a little bit of hope for the game is their choice of disciplines. If they're at all as described, they will materially affect gameplay in quite ambitious ways. Turning into mist is not the same as floating down from a building or using TK to grab an object or float an enemy. This is a good deal more sophisticated than the original, where most of the disciplines were fairly straightforward numbers adjustments -- buffs, debuffs, ranged damage, crowd control etc. (This shouldn't be construed as a criticism of VtM:B btw, the disciplines were really well done and did wonders for replayability, despite their relative simplicity.)

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

There's also to note that the disciplines aren't derived from the PnP game at all. They should be looked at first and foremost as "is this interesting for vidya" PC abilities, since vidya is not the same as running a PnP campaign.

EDIT: Though one criticism to be had of original Bloodlines disciplines is that Celerity and Obfuscate were way better than all other disciplines combined. This isn't exactly it's fault tho, the balance of disciplines has been wacky in PnP too. Mist Form is a good example, it's kind of a "fucking really" five-dot compared to the fact Protean breaks the game at two-dot (well, broke, the claws don't deal aggravated anymore in V5).

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

I don't mean the people here.

Don't be mean, we like some good things once in a while

 

[Lord Andre]

I'm not an expert on wod faggotry and shit but doesn't this mean two of the classic clans are out ? Nossie and gangrel probably ?

 

[Prime Junta]

Celerity and Obfuscate were way better than all other disciplines combined

In my opinion Presence and Auspex are better than either of these.

 

[Storyfag]

Then again, in Bloodlines Strauss calls LaCroix (embraced in 1815) a neonate, just so your head can explode.

I think this is rather a missing comma from the script, taken at face value by the voice actor. Or a missing dot.

"La Croix is a Prince, neonate. And a Ventrue on top of that."

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Can be seen as either way. It's either a gross oversight, or poor form, considering that Gary was embraced in 1957 (which btw is IMO doing it right).

I'm not an expert on wod faggotry and shit but doesn't this mean two of the classic clans are out ? Nossie and gangrel probably ?

Nah they're out and about. It isn't that hard to work Animalism around the bat thing, and as mentioned Protean could do a lot better for five-dot than Mist Form.

Celerity and Obfuscate were way better than all other disciplines combined

In my opinion Presence and Auspex are better than either of these.

Tertiary I would say (since even Celerity takes secondary priority to the top requirement in Bloodlines: Persuasion, Lockpicking and Hacking). Auspex provides a handy increase to Hacking for much of the game to help you conserve XP, and it can provide a benefit at endgame due to Perception bonus, but it isn't anything compared to Celerity (and in fact, it too is better seen as a subsidiary of Celerity in combat due to the way Celerity amplifies basically everything else). Presence is neat, but again doesn't really compare to Obfuscate, but it does work as the alternative to Fortitude but has more efficiency at low levels than most disciplines since the speed debuff is there from get-go, the dialogue use added in Plus Patch isn't really enough of a carrot IMO considering how you are naturally funneled to using Persuade due to skill books and occult items. The thing with Celerity is really just that it's by far the most multi-purpose discipline, with highest amount of mayhem per blood point used, and the one that can act as a force multiplier. Main drawback it has is that it is a slow burner, you need to get it up to 4 before it reveals just how strong it is.

Obfuscate is more of a cheat mode that lets you skip most combat with low investment, since you only really need 2 points in it and the others are just extra on top. Celerity is the top dog hands down, but Obfuscate is the one with the most competing amount of utility.

 

[Storyfag]

Can be seen as either way. It's either a gross oversight, or poor form

Gross oversight in a game rushed out the door? Nay, say it is not so!

considering that Gary was embraced in 1957 (which btw is IMO doing it right).

Iii don't know. Age and cainite society ranks are messed up in the PnP, but 50 years of unlife to become the Primogen of your clan? Even for a city as young as LA, this is stretching it. Ideally, the city's Elders should be connected to the gold rush of the 1850s, excepting obviously imported cases such as LaCroix and Strauss.

Personally, I believe the meat of the setting is in close proximity of a city's Primogen council and the Prince, so players should by default have the option of being their trusted retainers, ie: experienced Ancillae or perhaps even Elders. How those ranks should translate to years of unlife is a secondary consideration.

 

[Delterius]

Iii don't know. Age and cainite society ranks are messed up in the PnP, but 50 years of unlife to become the Primogen of your clan? Even for a city as young as LA, this is stretching it. Ideally, the city's Elders should be connected to the gold rush of the 1850s, excepting obviously imported cases such as LaCroix and Strauss.

the older nossies got lost in the sewers

 

[Sailor Woedica]

Ugh is anybody else disappointed with the fashion we've seen so far? It's all suits, or old dresses??? Where's the cool lewks!

Like dude is dressed like Captain America in his casual clothes here:

Not to be totally biased, but vampires should lewk more like this:

At least let me dress in an oversized puffer jacket and slay a sporty lewk underneath!!!!!!

One thing I loved about Bloodlines was how stylish things were, like everything came from a UNIF lewkbook! (Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll be totally stunning outfits in the final game!!!)

 

[fantadomat]

Ugh is anybody else disappointed with the fashion we've seen so far? It's all suits, or old dresses??? Where's the cool lewks!

Like dude is dressed like Captain America in his casual clothes here:

Not to be totally biased, but vampires should lewk more like this:

At least let me dress in an oversized puffer jacket and slay a sporty lewk underneath!!!!!!

One thing I loved about Bloodlines was how stylish things were, like everything came from a UNIF lewkbook! (Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll be totally stunning outfits in the final game!!!)

No wonder you spend your time on the codex and not with a man....phew that sense of fashion.

 

[Delterius]

when Sailor Woedica is disappointed, my heart just breaks apart

 

[Sailor Woedica]

No wonder you spend your time on the codex and not with a man....phew that sense of fashion.

 

[FreeKaner]

It is true actually. I hope the people in the game won't have the video game dev uniform of cargo shorts and t-shirts with text on them in big fonts.