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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

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Italy
yeah, i used the meme just for its value, i can't know and never will what it means to have first world problems.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
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Messages
28,024
If that were true, then selling direct from your own website would be the best deal ever (for the developers) and neither Steam nor Epic would be able to compete with that[...]

Nice strawman, most people don't want DRM free archive file, they want convenience of a store platform with more than one title on it....
That was in response to "if only gamers cared about the developers' bottom line". Since you agree that most people prefer the convenience of store platforms, surely you can see why they'd prefer a more convenient one, with nice toxic features?

There are free games every two weeks, if Epic got an exclusive of Metro, or Borderlands 3 callibre every few months and few smaller ones in between and they were permanent and such state continued long enough, most gamers would end up having an account there.
Or not. Epic's treating gamers like cattle and forcing them to switch pastures with exclusives. I don't see it as a viable strategy to get "most gamers". Epic needs goodwill and right now it's not generating any.

End game would be a lower cut for the whole industry, everyone could release their exclusives on Steam, once it'd got pressured into lowering the cut.
Steam won't be pressured to do anything until Epic starts selling games like hotcakes. If Epic fails to grab more than 10-15% of the market, it will only reinforce Steam's position as the top market.

Why bother buying two full price copies of AoD on BMT with fake address, so goverment and Steam don't snatch half of your revenue, when I can just get it in a bundle like this https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/fantasy-legends-bundle ?
Very convenient, nice price, such satisfied customer, Steam key ! I'll buy colony ship rpg in a bundle like this, be grateful, I pay your bills.
We started doing bundles (it's the second bundle for both games) 3 years after AoD release, when the effective price dropped to $3-4 dollars. At this point we don't expect anyone but the most enthusiastic supporters to buy AoD directly from us. Most of our revenues come from Steam, GOG, and now Fanatical. Eventually, Colony Ship will also be sold in a bundle, so anyone willing to wait 3 years will be able to buy it for a few bucks. That's business as usual, no?
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Steam is getting clever. Unless I've been blind for a while, they've just introduced a Changelog button on the Friends list. Might be to show that they're constantly working on features while Epic has fuckall.

Steam has always been working on new features and introducing them without big fanfare.
 

passerby

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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For the record I didn't advise you to go Epic exclusive, because the reality of current situation and an average gamer mindset is obvious and you would loose money with this move. I argue only about principles, I'm aware of reality.

Or not. Epic's treating gamers like cattle and forcing them to switch pastures with exclusives. I don't see it as a viable strategy to get "most gamers". Epic needs goodwill and right now it's not generating any.
Steam won't be pressured to do anything until Epic starts selling games like hotcakes. If Epic fails to grab more than 10-15% of the market, it will only reinforce Steam's position as the top market.
Except customers are a cattle that care more about the store then about you, if they weren't the fact that developers of their niche entertainment can earn 20% more on Epic would be enough to go there, it's a fucking launcher, not a 300$ hardware that takes space in your place.
You either lead the cattle, or follow it. The reason Epic will fall is because it failed to convince publishers to go all the way with permanent exclusives. The only digital entertainment distributors that had any success competing are the ones with exclusives, it's not just gaming.

If the company that try to provide you a platform to sell and promote games at barely above operation costs and the best engine on the market for free is "toxic" and idiots that circlejerk under my posts with shitty ratings are your buddies, then I rest my case.

We started doing bundles (it's the second bundle for both games) 3 years after AoD release, when the effective price dropped to $3-4 dollars. At this point we don't expect anyone but the most enthusiastic supporters to buy AoD directly from us. Most of our revenues come from Steam, GOG, and now Fanatical. Eventually, Colony Ship will also be sold in a bundle, so anyone willing to wait 3 years will be able to buy it for a few bucks. That's business as usual, no?
Yeah, bussiness as usual, it'll end like mobile market.
 
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JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
We started doing bundles (it's the second bundle for both games) 3 years after AoD release, when the effective price dropped to $3-4 dollars. At this point we don't expect anyone but the most enthusiastic supporters to buy AoD directly from us. Most of our revenues come from Steam, GOG, and now Fanatical. Eventually, Colony Ship will also be sold in a bundle, so anyone willing to wait 3 years will be able to buy it for a few bucks. That's business as usual, no?

Have you considered also going on the smaller stores like itch.io and Discord Store? And what about the Humble Store?
 

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1121218551342350336

Tencent Epic says that if Valve matches its 12% cut and some other conditions then it will stop buying exclusives.

If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.

The key “no major strings attached” points are: games can use any online systems like friends and accounts they choose, games are free to interoperate across platforms and stores, the store doesn’t tax revenue on other stores or platforms (e.g. if you play Fortnite on iOS+PC)...

More “no major strings attached”: if you play the game on multiple platforms, stuff you’ve bought can be available everywhere; no onerous certification requirements. Essentially, the spirit of an open platform where the store is just a place to find games and pay for stuff.

That’s a loaded question! But Epic will stay the course. 30% store dominance is the #1 problem for PC developers, publishers, and everyone who relies on those businesses for their livelihood. We’re determined to fix it and this is the one approach that will effect major change.
It seems like they are trying to push them in to position where they could outlive them in attrition war. 12% is running at a loss from the looks of it.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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Messages
5,105
It's funny that despite all the drama and hollering for them to do something all Valve has to really do is bide their time. Epic's money sack is not bottomless and these games are coming to Steam anyway in a year or less.
 

Delterius

Arcane
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Entre a serra e o mar.
Epic has 10 trillions of zoomer dollars as well as the full backing of Tencent's president Xi Jinping.
Doesn't mean they're going to run it at a loss for 10 years.
Yes, it means they can run it at a loss for one thousand years!

Whoever controls the games, controls the gamers. Whoever controls the gamers, controls the world.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
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Messages
28,024
For the record I didn't advise you to go Epic exclusive, because the reality of current situation and an average gamer mindset is obvious and you would loose money with this move. I argue only about principles, I'm aware of reality.
Well, if we're in agreement that the exclusivity is a bad move, then what are we arguing about? I'm not against Epic, we'll gladly sign up on a non-exclusive basis, and we do need more viable stores.

Except customers are a cattle that care more about the store then about you, if they weren't the fact that developers of their niche entertainment can earn 20% more on Epic would be enough to go there, it's a fucking launcher, not a 300$ hardware that takes space in your place.
You either lead the cattle, or follow it. The reason Epic will fall is because it failed to convince publishers to go all the way with permanent exclusives.
How the fuck could they possibly convince publishers to abandon the biggest fucking market (85%) and hope for the best? If Epic fails it will be because they focused on pleasing developers and turning Epic into a 'safe store' rather than toxic, no-good customers, you know the very fucking people who actually buy shit.

If the company that try to provide you a platform to sell and promote games at barely above operation costs...
A platform without millions of paying customers constantly buying games is a dead platform. That's my point. Steam isn't a store that charges developers 30% god knows why. It's the biggest gaming market that dwarfs its competition, which is why it charges 30%. No platform would be able to change that without catering to the players and seeing them, not the developers, as the most valuable asset.

We started doing bundles (it's the second bundle for both games) 3 years after AoD release, when the effective price dropped to $3-4 dollars. At this point we don't expect anyone but the most enthusiastic supporters to buy AoD directly from us. Most of our revenues come from Steam, GOG, and now Fanatical. Eventually, Colony Ship will also be sold in a bundle, so anyone willing to wait 3 years will be able to buy it for a few bucks. That's business as usual, no?
Yeah, bussiness as usual, it'll end like mobile market.
Not sure what your point is. Games are discounted over time. Most games end up at 75-80% off after 3-4 years (the super hits have longer staying power, of course), which usually means under 5 bucks on sale. This business model didn't change in the last 30 years; if anything digital stores have increased games' longevity as in the olden days games could hit the bargain bin much faster and stay there for good.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Realtalk from...RPS? https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...ves-if-steam-gave-devs-larger-cut-ceo-claims/

Epic Store would end exclusives if Steam gave devs larger cut, CEO claims

90


Epic Games would halt their plan of paying for games to launch exclusively on their Store if Valve committed to taking a smaller cut of Steam sales, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney has claimed. That’s quite a remarkable claim – and one he can probably make feeling confident he won’t be called on it any time soon. I’d like the public record to show that if someone paid me £6 million, I would chop off one of my own fingers. CALL MY BLUFF, I DARE YOU.

Epic launched their shop in December with a lineup of mid-sized indie exclusives but since they have swayed several big publishers, paying for games including Borderlands 3, The Division 2, Metro Exodus, and Anno 1800 to skip Steam.

One of the main benefits of the Epic Games Store for developers and publishers is that Epic only take 12% of proceeds from each sale, versus Steam’s starting cut of 30% (scaling down to 20% for really big games). The other is that, y’know, Epic are apparently spaffing huge amounts of cash to buy up exclusives and keep games off Steam and other stores. That contentious practice, Sweeney seems to be claiming now, is altruistic – they simply want Valve to match their deal.

“If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organise a retreat from exclusives (while honouring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam,” Sweeney said on Twitter overnight amidst a big long thread about the store.

“Such a move would be a glorious moment in the history of PC gaming, and would have a sweeping impact on other platforms for generations to come,” he continued. “Then stores could go back to just being nice places to buy stuff, rather than the Game Developer IRS.”

Which… is a nice idea, but I can’t say I believe him. A clear intent of Epic paying megabucks for exclusives is to bootstrap their own Store, to try to become a profitable rival to Steam by securing big games from big developers and publishers. They’re burning huge amounts of cash now to gain users and make even more in the future. Sweeney’s implication that they’re only doing it to pressure Steam into treating developers better is laughable. Their store, as a store for customers to use, is worse than most of its rivals – scloosies are its saving grace.

I certainly support Valve giving developers a larger cut of Steam sales, to be clear. I’d love for my scepticism to be proven misplaced. I’ll also point out that Epic going on about caring for developers while reportedly massively overworking their own employees is iffy at best.

Epic’s longing to be seen as saviours of PC gaming is frustrating. Their pretence that they’re not trying to straight-up buy a share of PC gaming is daft. The over-enthusiastic (and disingenuous-feeling) hyperbole from Sweeney and other connected industry figures makes me feel they think we’re rubes. God, don’t even get me started on Gearbox boss Randy Pitchford saying their next boring game being Epic-exclusive will end Steam’s supposed monopoly. I know that you’re running businesses and that businesses both need and want money. Please abandon this television evangelist act.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,927
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1121218551342350336

Tencent Epic says that if Valve matches its 12% cut and some other conditions then it will stop buying exclusives.

If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam.
But if EGS had no exclusives then nobody except Fortnite kids would use it. Is this guy retarded?
 

passerby

Arcane
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
2,788
But if EGS had no exclusives then nobody except Fortnite kids would use it. Is this guy retarded?

This is exactly the point. If Steam cut was small enough, there would be no point in competing with it at all and everyone, even the biggest players, would be happy to sell there instead of trying to maintain their own platforms.
 
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passerby

Arcane
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Nov 16, 2016
Messages
2,788
How the fuck could they possibly convince publishers to abandon the biggest fucking market (85%) and hope for the best? If Epic fails it will be because they focused on pleasing developers and turning Epic into a 'safe store' rather than toxic, no-good customers, you know the very fucking people who actually buy shit.

It somehow works for EA and many MMOs. Do you seriously believe there is any amount of pleasing that would make people willingly go outside of Steam ?
After reading this thread, or with being aware what GOG market share is ( that gathered initial customer base with offering exclusive old games btw ), or witnessing HB switching to selling Steam Keys, etc ?
It is close to perfect and everyone is already there, they don't care about your bottom line, the money they have to spent is limited and they'll rather wait for a sale, than buy anywhere else.

There are at least three things they did really wrong, though:
1) All social media communication we witnessed should be kept private and be directed only at publishers. It only keep the flames alive. Average gamer is offended by the very idea that game producers would expect any loyalty and don't deeply believe they're customers bitches.
2) Everyone who decided to go exclusive route shouldn't announce in advance it's timed, but wait this year to see what happens. Terrible mistake, it only makes even supportive, or indifferent people shrug their shoulders, go play something else and wait for a complete edition on Steam.
3) Everything from the store features roadmap should be ready before they started.
 
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Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
How the fuck could they possibly convince publishers to abandon the biggest fucking market (85%) and hope for the best? If Epic fails it will be because they focused on pleasing developers and turning Epic into a 'safe store' rather than toxic, no-good customers, you know the very fucking people who actually buy shit.

It somehow works for EA and many MMOs.
I guess that's what every failed MMO publisher said. It works well for Blizzard (WoW), surely it would work for us too? It doesn't just work *somehow*. There are different, specific reasons and they don't apply to Epic.

Do you seriously believe there is any amount of pleasing that would make people willingly go outside of Steam ?
If by pleasing you mean developing a better store with better features that people would want to use, then yes, absolutely.

After reading this thread, or with being aware what GOG market share is ( that gathered initial customer base with offering exclusive old games btw ), or witnessing HB switching to selling Steam Keys, etc ?
This thread is about people being upset that Epic snatched games from Steam at the last min, which in some cases broke earlier promises and commitments. Nobody likes this kind of shit. Had Epic invested into developing their own exclusives, nobody would have said anything.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
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Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Epic can afford burning money for exclusives until the sun collapses, so we can bitch about it for another 200 pages but I don't expect for a second they're gonna change this idiotic strategy.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
Epic can afford burning money for exclusives until the sun collapses, so we can bitch about it for another 200 pages but I don't expect for a second they're gonna change this idiotic strategy.
Remember that these are cyclic fads that usually last 3-5 years and "Battle Royale" is already showing its age. There's at the most another 2-3 years here till this particular moneywell dries up and something new comes along: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-goes-bankrupt-rip.121181/page-6#post-5575917
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
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Messages
4,092
Radical Heights dying isn't the result of anything else but that Radical Heights was just bad. Your post was also inaccurate, MMOs and MOBAs are still popular as hell. BRs will be the same way, one or two BR games will become to go-to for everyone (i.e. what WOW and some gook MMOs are for MMOs and what League of Legends and Dota 2 are for MOBAs) and they'll stick around with good popularity for the next 5-10 years.
 

DalekFlay

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Remember that these are cyclic fads that usually last 3-5 years and "Battle Royale" is already showing its age. There's at the most another 2-3 years here till this particular moneywell dries up and something new comes along: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-goes-bankrupt-rip.121181/page-6#post-5575917

Yes there's obviously a time limit on it, but it's longer than most people are acting like. Fortnite just shrugged off its best competitor yet in Apex Legends, it's gonna be making them money hand over fist for a long time to come. If consumers hold firm they will eventually be "defeated" in their goal, but exclusives have worked many times before with gaming shit so I wouldn't be that optimistic.

His bullshit today about this all being altruistic is amusing though.
 

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