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In Progress Let's defeat the Romans battle after battle without ever taking Rome in Field of Glory II

ValeVelKal

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It is always a bit of a clusterfuck, but here it got pretty confusing due to the massive amount of skirmishers that the Spaniards have.

If it helps, all units with white banners are routing so you can mostly "erase them" mentally. They had a lot of confusion to the untrained eye.

I will try to mark the "frontline" in later messages I guess
 

ValeVelKal

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So here is a clearer situation.



- In general, units with white flag = routing. You can erase them from your mind.
- The one unit isolated facing the large yellow force is Teepasthènes. As you can see, he keeps alone the rest of the enemy unable to support the 2 remaining Spanish units in contact with the Pnic forces.
- There are some infantry "behind" Teepasthènes, but that infantry cannot turn without immediately behind attacked and overwhelmed from its back - which saves Teepasthènes.

- I think it is quite clear why I think Anderbal is in trouble, and you Baudon after that. At least Anderbal bought some time to you, but even if he survives, the rest of the Spanish line will now be able to totally surround your cavalry.
- Likewise, it is also pretty clear why the Spanish cavalry is in a bad situation.
- I will probably have to rotate the left part of my line to face the main (rest of) the Spanish force.
 

ValeVelKal

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221 BC - BATTLE FOR ALITHIA - APPROX 14H00

As you may remember, this was the situation :





Both right wings were pivoting and getting ready to solve it out in the middle, while liquidating the last remains of the opposition on their side.

To this effect, the Punic routed the last element of Spanish infantry still fighting, while surrounding the Spanish cavalry :







Teepasthènes was meanwhile holding alone in the center. He was holding so many enemies that he had to give ground :



Finally, Lamabal, against his officers best orders, decided it was the last moment to bring glory to his name. He rotated his fragmented forced and readied to charge the skirmishers :



Anderbal's unit had by that point being thoroughfully broken. Baudon had only one axis of retreat - straight ahead through the Spanish scutarii…

… and it worked. The Spaniards broke and retreaited, and Baudon pursued, very happy to leave some distance between him and the hive of skirmishers.

As for Lamabal, pelleted by the Spanish javelins, his cavalry - and critically the horses - refused to turn, and instead preferred to flee as far as possible.



In the middle, Teepasthènes hoplines were exhausted, battered. Suddenly, they saw panic seize the Spaniards they were fighting, and then the bearbed barbarians faces disappeared, replaced by the familiar helmets of TheLoneGisco's fellow hoplites. On their right, Narval's cavalry. And behind them, Andjordal. They had done it. They had held enough. They had held as much as could be requested for them, and then some. They could not fight a minute more. Sure that they had done their duty, they broke formation, and moved behind Andjordal's warbands line. The time for stubborn discipline was over, now it was the time for the ferocity of the warbands.



The Spaniards saw the writing in the wall. They gave everything in a last effort to stop the Punic line from being formed. And indeded they did force TheLoneGisco hoplites to give ground. But this was not enough, and too late. In that effort, they only managed to get more surrounded than they were...



...and ultimely, their line gave way by the center :



It was over. The Spanish had been beaten. The skirmishers realized that there would be no line to protect them from the cavalry anymore, and they fled. The few warriors not yet engaged knew it had no reason to do so anymore. The whole army collapsed, and fled.




The loss were higher than expected, especially among the cavalry. Of course, the Spaniards had lost thousands more - and they also lost their city, Alithia.



Among the dead, surrounded by the body of many Olcades, the Carthaginians found the body of Averno - the first dead commander of Hannibal.



Averno's warband dispersed after the battle. They had had their share of pillage, now they headed back home to choose a new warchief. Hannibal and Narval agreed that Andjordal had proven up to task of leading the heavy troops, and he would lead them again.

In addition, Hermbral from the Pillars of Melqart had proved itself a fool and a coward. He had fled the battlefield without losing one man to combat ! Seeing him on the battlefield. Many started to doubt his claim to have travelled beyond the Pillars of Melqart, well beyond, to a land lush with vegetation like the forest of Germania and where the Natives wore gold.
This was irrelevant, Hannibal had him executed. Hannibal next target was to cross into Gauls, and from there into Cisalpine Gaul. For this, he needed men he could trust.

Who among you - not already enlisted - believe they can be one of these men ?
 

Tigranes

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I believe!

I have zero idea about units in this game, but whatever infantry type you like.
 

ValeVelKal

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Andjordal had proven up to task of leading the heavy troops, and he would lead them again.
Is there any gameplay consequences to you saying or is it just fluff?

Keep going boss, this is really fun.
Sub-commanders like Averno, Teepasthenes, Baudon,... give a morale and combat bonus to their unit and a manœuvrability bonus to units around them.
After Averno's death in battle, transferring command to you was fluff :). For next battle it won’t.
 
Last edited:

ValeVelKal

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Welcome, Tigranax. Next time I will play Armenia or Pontus you'll keep your name.
We have two slots left of Phoenician-style infantry and 3 slots of skirmishers (javelinmen and slingers).

Whether the slots are filed or not, I start in half an hour, so quick :)
 

ValeVelKal

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218 BC : The Battle for the Rhône - Early morning

The year is 218 BC, and Hannibal has crossed into Gaul. His force has already lost a large number of men, critically losing his scutarii (their leader executed) and one of the warband (while they elect a new leader).

New commanders had emerged, joining the old ones. We will talk about them soon enough.

As Hannibal approaches the Rhône, he is met by the Volcae, a pro-Roman Gallic tribe. He needs to defeat them decisively, so he does not have to get involved into some "Battle of Rhone Crossing" in the future.

Here is the field of battle today :



While it seems flat enough, it is actually not great ground for cavalry at all :



There are as you can see two hills between the Volcae and the Punic. Between the hills, there is small marsh that is terrible ground for both men & horses. The top of the hills is pretty rough, but behind the marsh the ground suddenly opens and become flat.

Given this, and expecting a Gallic frontal assault, Hannibal decided the following :
- On the left wing, unlike what is usual, the heavy infantry, led by Teepasthènes, will advance as much as possible and hold the position right of the lake.
Teepasthènes will be given command of the Elephants, which will be used against any attempt from the Volcae to flank the infantry (for instance by going around the lake).
As this group is at risk of being heavily overwhelmed, Hannibal will take position there.

- All the heavy cavalry and the light cavalry will be on the right flank, held by Baudon - who proved his courage against the Olcadès. Their objective is to cross the swamps as fast as possible to find the open ground, deploy there, and ideally destroy the enemy from the flank.
As speed is key, Baudon's will be supported in the initial advance by the skirmishers under Badadabon's command, himself under's Andjordal's command.

- The center will be led by Andjordal's. His warband will be the center of his center, and he will be accompagned by numerous medium African infantry.
His objective is to hold for the presumably short time necessary for Baudon to be in position, then push forward while Baudon turn the Gallic army - winning the war.




The order of battle is thus :


- Hannibal, with Narval's cavalry (commander-in-chief)
* Left wing, under command of Teepasthènes
** Teepasthènes's own mercenary hoplites
** TheLoneGisco's mercenary hoplites
** Balitim's African spearmen
** Nostra's African spearmen
** Swuulibal's elephants
***Alxon's elephants

*Center, under command of Andjordal
** Andjordal's own Spanish warband
** Zeppax's Phoenician-style infantry
** Westbral's Phoenician-style infantry
** Tigranax's Phoenician-style infantry
** Bolkonim's Phoenician-style infantry
** Tindrlal's light infantry
** Badadabon's CCCXVI balearic slingers
*** More balearic slingers
*** Javelinmen
*** More Javelinmen

*Right (cavalry) wing, under command of Baudon
** Baudon's own Armored noble cavalry
** Grimgravim's veteran noble cavalry
** Itebal's noble cavalry
** Lammo's noble cavalry
** Oscal's Light Javelin Horses
*** Hym's Light Javelin Horses
*** Andrebal the Magnificient's Light Javelin Horses

[in addition to Narval/Hannibal, only Teepasthènes, Baudon and Andjordal are leaders in game term and really bring bonus but let's ignore that]

The newcomers are :
- Zeppax, Tigranax, Hym and Bolkonim, who had distinguished themselves at the head of their troops against the Olcadès,
- Westbral from the Pillars, who had not really distinguished himself in battle but had asked Hannibal the authorisation to execute his brother himself - a demand granted by Hannibal,
- Itebal, related to the late Averno. Hannibal wanted to "thank" from which Averno came by giving a command to one of his relatives,
- Lammo, brother of Lamabal, well-known to be just as good a warrior as the later - but a better leader,
- Nostra, leader of reinforcements sent by King Syphax himself,

The Gallic army was not fully visible as the sun rised. To the Carthaginians, it seems that there was a strong left with cavalry, and a wall of men in the center - but a weak right :



As the Carthaginian advanced into battle, Hannibal and Teepasthènes saw that the right Gallic wing was stronger with expected with - surprise - light war chariot in addition to twice the expected cavalry :



Yet, the Volcae were not moving, allowing Hannibal deployment to go unimpeached :




The swamp was soon cleared, and Hannibal order his left and center to go further than expect, and take position on top of the hill, leaving the rought ground behind them :



The position of the cavalry on the right was now perfect, as they had passed the difficult terrain and were now only facing open fields. This is only at this moment, that the Gallic army advanced.
The two armies were now about to clash :



All commanders knew what they had to do.



 

Andnjord

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Looks like you'll win the right flank pretty handily, all that cav and skirmishers should make short work of the opposition there. The left flank....heh, Theepasthenes is gonna have to work hard for his pay. Are elephants any good against heavy cav?
 

ValeVelKal

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Looks like you'll win the right flank pretty handily, all that cav and skirmishers should make short work of the opposition there. The left flank....heh, Theepasthenes is gonna have to work hard for his pay. Are elephants any good against heavy cav?
Elephants are really good against heavy cavalry, as the horses panic when confronted with elephants, the problem being that cavalry retreats rather than being engaged by elephants, so they can be hard to corner.
 

ValeVelKal

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218 BC - The Battle for the Rhône - Around 11:00

The two armies are now moving toward each other, but, strangely, the Gallic cavalry is staying put - allowing Baudon's cavalry to take an even better position. So does Andjorbal in the middle, as he advances his infantry until the edge of the hill - on top. Satisfied by the fact that his right is covered by the cavalry, he narrows his line and moves his warband behind the Punic line. If any unit would falter, he will come and replace them.



Meanwhile, Badadabon opens the combat itself by pelleting some isolated warbands by stones and javelins, and Teepasthènes orders to form a defensive formation facing all directions.

Sensing the threat, the Gallic cavalry finally move to face the Punic & allied Spanish cavalry. In the center, the Spanish warbands charge, and Westbral's infantry is hit by an horde of ferocious warband. Westbral, the only infantry commander not chosen for his experience in previous battles - falters already :



On the left wing, Swuulibal discovers his elephants have a weakness against javelins. 5 of the huge beasts fall, but the other stay calm. Gallic cavalry also try to turn Teepasthènes, but the view of Alxon elephants put a stop to his attempt.

The movement of the Gallic cavalry acts as a signal for Baudon, and he orders the full charge :



While the cavalry facing him break before contact, Lammo's cavalry is unable to dent the enemy line, forcing Itebal and Grimgravim to spread their own cavalry along a large line.
Meanwhile, Hym and Andrebal follow Baudon in the gap, while Oscal tries to support the heavy cavalry.

On the left flank, the Gallic are hesitant at charging uphill a wall of Greek and Africa pike. This hesitation is used by Swuulibal, who charges downhill some of the warriors. Meanwhile, Alxon tries to chase the cavalry flanking Teepasthènes, but the cavalry flees. The surprise is total for the skirmishers they were covering and that were pelleting Swuulibal's elephants with javelins. They found themselves immediately trampled by elephants, and their immediate survival only comes from the difficulty the elephants have in a rough ground.



But the first decisive action is - again - brought in by Andjorbal. Sensing Westbral difficulties, he orders Tigranes to make way and cover him by advancing, and charges by surprise the infantry engaged with Westbral :



The Gallic line immediately wavers, and the infantry which was engaged in a quite literal uphill battle they were winning found themselves push back by an horde as brutal as them. The reinforcement brought him by another Vulcae horde coming to their help on their right does nothing to help them on their left, and they break and flee. Another warband behind them, more disciplined and in closed order, manage to intercept the pursuit, but the situation looks grim already for the Gallic center.



While the situation looks great in the center and solid still on the left, the cavalry perfect plan on the right seems in shamble with the disruption of Lammo's cavalry.

@Baudon : You are commander of the cavalry. Do you carry on looking for battle against the enemy cavalry, do you turn back (at the risk of being charged on your back) to help the rest of the heavy cavalry, or do you immediately fall on the rear of the Gallic center ?
In addition, you might choose to transfer to Lammo's unit to help him put some order in his line, though at the risk of being more removed from the battlefield.
@Hym @Andrebal : The moment of glory has come. Do you support Baudon in whatever he chooses to do , do you come back to help the heavy cavalry, or do you attack the enemy from the rear?
@Badadabon : Do you carry on attacking the infantry, or do you order your slingers & javelinmen to engage the horsemen ?
 

Tigranes

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The incompetent Westbral may falter to the left, but Tigranax shall be the heroic supporting act to the actually decisive moves in the battle!

If only we had a unit in reserve, but it looks like we might have to smash the centre fast and help the right.
 

ValeVelKal

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218 BC - The Battle for the Rhône - Around 12H00

As you may remember, this was the situation, with the center of the Gallic line being pierced, while the left was stable and the right was overwhelming the enemy cavalry.
Fin_zpskd98yga7.png





As time passes, the left remains stable, with Teepasthènes and his wing resisting to the Gallic hordes :




On the right though, the situation was moving strongly in the favour of Carthage, the cavalry was pushed back and totally disrupted while Catanos's personal retinee is pinned under the volume of fire



In the center, Hannibal decided to join the rank of Westbral's infantry to make sure it would hold. If It would hold, the battle is won. Against Andjorbal's order, and common sense, Tigranax's reserves jumped into action as well.


Warchief Tamusubugos of the Volcae realized the situation was not doing so great, so he decided to commit personally to the battle, and moved toward Baudon's pursuing cavalry. On the gallic right wing,, Vectios's elite ["superior"] warband finally charged Teepasthenès.
For all their experience, Teepasthenès's hoplites could not expect to withstand such an assault without giving group by the sheer strength of the impact - and they were physically push back by several feets. Hundreds of them, who fell, were trampled by their comrades or killed on the ground by the barbarian warriors.



The Gauls know little about how to economise their energy, and Teepasthenès and enough experience to know that it would last only a few minutes before he could push back again. At his signal, all the hoplites and spearmen on his line pushed again, and the human horde was pushed back in front of him and of Nostra. TheLoneGisco's line was too disrupted already for such a feat.



Meanwhile, some of the Volcae tribes engaged against the elephants routed - it suddenly seemed like the left wing would not only resist, but triumph !

On the left wing, the triumph was more and more apparent. First, after Badadabon had reduced the Warchief's retinee to an handful of bloody men and horses, Grimgravim charges them.
The noble cavalry was at this point in no condition to fight, and it fleed in panic. Pursuing, Grimgravim came into contact with another Gallic cavalry trying to reform - that cavalry was in no condition to resist and fleed as well



The last resisting Gallic cavalry then saw the writing in the wall and folded, opening the whole Gallic center to a charge on the flank.



The first infantry to "receive" the Punic cavalry was a mob of men who had followed the army. Within second, the mob was dispersed.

The Gallic center was now an handful infantrymen overrunned by a mix of warriors and cavalry. They would collapse anytime.
Meanwhile, on the Gallic right, the situation was clear for the Gallic leaders, they had to break Teepasthenès line to have a chance to wheel around on time to receive the incoming Punic center and right.
Vectios, in the push-back ordered by Teepasthenès, had identified the one unit that could not do it : TheLoneGisco's hoplites. It was the weak point, and he ordered his warriors to charge the close-order phalanx from the side. Success was immediate, and TheLoneGisco's men routed in panic.



Tamesubugos's effort to help his men is blocked by the threat of Baudon's cavalry.

The advance of the Punic calvary from the left to the right was slowed down by the number of retreating men. Meanwhile, the elephants were now getting totally isolated from Teepasthenès infantry :



Tamesubugos and what is left of his cavalry try to charge Baudon and Oscal, but they pull back toward Badadabon, who was making himself quite the reputation as cavalry-killer.
Meanwhile, what is left of the Gallic center collapses - except one unit. Westbral's infantry has had also enough of the battle, and flees the battlefield - with Hannibal and Westbral trying to rally them in their flight.



On the left wing, the Gallic forces attack the elephants from all sides, and finally rout them. Swuulibal's elephants rout first, but the panic then infects Alxon's elephants.

But, critically, Teepasthenès is still standing, and hampers the Volcae from doing a clean rotation toward the rest of the Punic force.

Tamesubugos, who had followed Baudon, fell into the ambush. Badadabon's light skirmishers suddenly surrounded them from all parts, and pelleted them with so many projectives that the Warchief felt it as a solid rain.
Meanwhile, Baudon turned his horses, and Grimgravim was also coming back from an hot pursuit :

.


Teepasthenès ordered Nostra to support Balitim, so Balitime would not rout before the rest of the Punic force arrived :



This was the final decisive action. Now unsupported, their leaders out of view, with a massive army coming from their back, the warbands facing Balitim fled. The one facing Nostra knew it would be the next, and one after the other, the Gauls fled the battlefield :



Once again, Teepasthenès had held just enough time !





This had been a short battle [only 6 turns of "battle"] but Hannibal has now crossed in Italy, and would be facing real Roman consular armies.

But first, we have some decisions to take :

First :


Second : I will have to reduce the size of my army, so I need to take out units. I will pick them among those people who haven't manifested themselves since the beginning of the first battle against the Olcadès, so if you are one of these, now is the time to state that you still follow this :)
 

Tigranes

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Common sense never won us battles!

Tigranax resents the role of reserve, and will continue to charge bravely for glory at every opportunity.
 

Andnjord

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Glory be to Narval Hannibal Carthage! Roma Delenda Est!

I am quite pleased by the performance of my in-game avatar I must say. Hopefully that will keep up.

I guess we can wait for our own boys? There is no other consequence than the number and types of troops, right? The 'waiting' is just text fluff I presume?
 

ValeVelKal

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I have no idea for the consequences.

Tigranes / Tigranax : I guess see with Andjordal about being in reserve.

I have to say that overall RPGcodew outperforms OT Paradox Interactive Forum, with only Teepasthènes and Badadabon standing out from them, and some serial routers there :)
 

ValeVelKal

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Well, there are some crossing that I had to do.

Some posting I did on that other forum :

The real winner of the battle is the totality of the cavalry and Badadabon's skirmishers - except Lammo's nobles. Grimgravim's armored cavalry particularly stands out, having dispatched 2 enemy units, one alone and one with the help of Badadabon.
After the Gallic right broke, the light cavalry allowed to exploit faster indeed.

On the infantry side, in addition to Badadabon, Andjorbal really went beyond expectations and broke in large part the center before the cavalry could even flank it, and of course Teepasthenès // Nostra // Balitim did a great job holding the line against a superior force.


Sadly, checking the exact kill/loss ratio would be tiresome (I would need to note the kills as the battle moves forward), though the final losses of our units are recorded.
Hym's cavalry, for having only charged infantry in the back, and more often than not infantry about to break in the first place, managed to lose absolutely no one.
Anderbal has taken a lot more risks, having charged heavy cavalry at the critical moment (still in the back), and lost 20 cavalrymen out of ca 600, only a little less than Narval.
As for the last of the Light Cavalry units, Oscal - which charged enemy noble cavalry not once but twice, and not from the back, lost 80 men out of ca 600.
Also hard hit Westbral (700 dead or out of commission out of 2100 men), Teepasthenès (750 dead out of 2400) and TheLoneGisco's hoplite (800 dead out of 2400). Who keep the pay from the soldiers.
You ll be happy to know that
- Hym levelled up to "Superior quality", just like Oscal, while Anderbal is still "Average +" and Narval "Average".
- All the heavy noble cavalry (which started the campaign with "Superior" quality) is now "Elite", except Lammo at "Superior +"
- Almost all the infantry is "Superior", except Teepasthenès, Westbral and theLoneGisco whose losses brought down to "Average +".
- Badadabon is "Superior +", the rest of his skirmishers is Superior or "Average +"
- Finally, Swuulibal elephants are "Average+", whereas Alxon's elephants are still "Average". I plan to get rid of Alxon's horses if Alxeu does not spawn.
 

ValeVelKal

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oscar : I wanted to get rid of one of the elpehants because the Romans are not strong in cavalry, but both elephants "players" are active. Is going with Elephants vs Rome a good strat ? They are expensive.
 

oscar

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Elephants vs Romans are actually alright. Romans are scary (and reasonably numerous in this era compared to the ludicrously small early Imperial army lists) in close combat so elephants + your African spearmen are a good cost-effective mix to keep them at bay while your cavalry win the flanks. Keep them away from the velites however..

Happy to sign up as any unit you have unassigned.
 

ValeVelKal

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Elephants vs Romans are actually alright. Romans are scary (and reasonably numerous in this era compared to the ludicrously small early Imperial army lists) in close combat so elephants + your African spearmen are a good cost-effective mix to keep them at bay while your cavalry win the flanks. Keep them away from the velites however..

Happy to sign up as any unit you have unassigned.
You are already Oscal :)
 

ValeVelKal

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Wait for the reinforcements
Hym
Nostra
Teepasthenès
Badadabon
Andjordal

Use the Gauls :
Andrebal
Lammo
Itebal
Swuulibal
Baudon

soooo... I ll need an extra vote, or I will vote myself in 24 hours
 

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