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Grand Strategy Imperator: Rome - the new grand strategy from Paradox

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Even when you dig a bit deeper with Imperator, the mechanics are ass. The AI loves to declare superiority wars which have no war goal, so these wars turn into decades long slogs against larger nations. No side is able too reach enough war score from battles to end the war quickly.

Shocking! Johan and his little chorus of brown-nosers on the Paradox forum keep telling us this game is really "deep" and "complex", there is so much going on "under the hood" you just arnt aware of. We all just trolly haters cos we havnt played it for 1000 hours to truly appreciate the subtle complexities of this masterpiece of game design.
The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking. Johan did a good job when he had to translate other people's creativity(EU boardgame) in to a PC game. Now that they have to create new games,they are shit at it and all their dlcs are some bullshit mechanic that uses the same numbers mechanics that are prevalent in all of their games. Fuck,just make me a lead of those cucks for a year and will make the best grand strategy ever made!!!
 

Agame

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I cum from a land down under
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The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking. Johan did a good job when he had to translate other people's creativity(EU boardgame) in to a PC game. Now that they have to create new games,they are shit at it and all their dlcs are some bullshit mechanic that uses the same numbers mechanics that are prevalent in all of their games. Fuck,just make me a lead of those cucks for a year and will make the best grand strategy ever made!!!

Yes! You nailed it. Johan is a programmer, (maybe even a great programmer, I have no idea?) but he is creatively bankrupt, and I:R is the perfect example of a game created by someone with NO vision. Its a long running joke that paradox games are spread-sheet simulators, but CK, Vic, even HOI all have unique aspects that make them greater than the sum of their parts, and they are compelling and interesting to play.

And thats why we have this disconnect between Johan and a large part of the player base. He may genuinely think he did a good job with I:R and cannot understand the kickback from the community. But he is physically incapable of making something that has that creative spark to make it special. Look at the fixes they have planned to give the game more flavor, +% bonuses to different countries to make them unique... This game is doomed.
 

Raghar

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Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,500
The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking.
But, in garage games era these self-educated were also programmers and they were able to design new and interesting systems. In fact when designer was also a programmer it was massive advantage because he could do realistic design, and in worst case program these designs himself.

But of course not every programmer was a product of school education.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
Looks like pre-order and initial sales were not that bad. Playtracker's wild estimation is about 314K copies. (Stellaris, then fastest selling PDS game, has sold over 500K copies over two months) This was anticipated as the next grand strategy game from Paradox after all.

But now, it's sitting at page 5 of Steam's global top seller list. (Below Tropico 6 and Pathfinder: Kingmaker, both without discount.) Not expected for a new Paradox game to be honest.

I guess, aside from the negative word-of-mouth, Steam's visibility system is also doing its work. From Gunpoint developer's blog post:

Info: your user review rating doesn’t affect visibility, unless it’s ‘mostly negative’ or worse
This is straight from Valve, confirmed twice. User review % has no effect on when or where the Steam store promotes your game, unless it’s ‘mostly negative’ or worse. That’s not to say it won’t affect sales, of course: if I see something’s ‘mixed’ I at least scroll down to find out why. Steam also surfaces your user review rating in many places other than your store page, so while it won’t affect when it gets shown, it might affect how many people click through.

For one, I can't find Imperator: Rome in related game sections of other PDS games and Rome strategy games.
 

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking.
But, in garage games era these self-educated were also programmers and they were able to design new and interesting systems. In fact when designer was also a programmer it was massive advantage because he could do realistic design, and in worst case program these designs himself.

But of course not every programmer was a product of school education.
Most of those games were based on board games,and most of those were based on a medieval history and old legends. I would hardly call it original or creative.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Achievements are retardo cancer shit and caring about them either way is stupid

So is posting random youtube videos and nothing else and calling it a day

Guess not much else to beat about this dead horse until about 8 DLCs later, though
 

Fedora Master

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Edgy
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Messages
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Everyone is holding their breaths for the first big patch but from all we've seen from Paradox they won't be able to take the game in a good direction anyway. They refuse to see the core issues with the mana system.
 

Martyr

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Jan 28, 2018
Messages
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Bavaria
the achievements can't be that hard to achieve "correctly", can they?
I mean I literally learned how to play Imperator in about 5 minutes. checked the tutorial to see if there are some hidden mechanics that I didn't know of, but nope. seems like a rather simple game to me. or at least simple compared to earlier Paradox games like Crusader Kings. playing Crusader Kings 1 and 2 for the first time was rather intimidating and learning how to play them took time, even if you were familiar with Hearts of Iron and Europa Universalis. Imperator Rome seems like the most casual game of the bunch.
 

fizzelopeguss

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Messages
808
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Equality Street.
He fails to understand 2 very key issues for why the game isnt just panned by hardcore fans but everybody in a really extreme way.
First, that people arent asking for a full-dlc level content, but that people will compare the product on offer with other products on the shelf in some way, and failure to anticipate that is their failure and not the customers being crazy and irrational. It doesnt help that EU Rome isnt exactly a glowing beacon in the pdox portfolio historically.

And this is why paratards deserve everything they get. They should be asking for that. Otherwise what is the point of making sequels or new games?
 
Joined
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Messages
14,149
The game lacks even very basic EU4 shit. It's like EU:Rome was cryogenically unfrozen and mana was injected, EU4 never happened. AI diplomatic stances (friendly/hostile/etc)? Not there. Marking provinces of interest (so the AI gives you what you want and you can see whether taking x will piss off an ally)? Gone. AI Trust indicator? Gone. All of this shit is almost certainly in the game, they've existed but been mostly hidden in all of the Victoria/EU games up until EU4 where the devs exposed and let you strategize around them. Now they are back hidden, like Johan hasn't paid any attention to the last half decade of EU4 development. I suppose we should be thankful that you can change control of occupied provinces to begin with, that's DLC in EU4.
 

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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"Don't you guys like painting maps!?"
The map painting is not the problem,the way you do it is. Lets not pretend that people play those game so they could dev push a fucking city in to orbit without expanding. Everyone plays paradox games for the war and conquest,only old people and retards play tall,and that is because they can't keep up.
 

normie

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Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
He fails to understand 2 very key issues for why the game isnt just panned by hardcore fans but everybody in a really extreme way.
First, that people arent asking for a full-dlc level content, but that people will compare the product on offer with other products on the shelf in some way, and failure to anticipate that is their failure and not the customers being crazy and irrational. It doesnt help that EU Rome isnt exactly a glowing beacon in the pdox portfolio historically.

And this is why paratards deserve everything they get. They should be asking for that. Otherwise what is the point of making sequels or new games?

Eh. I don't think a new paradox game has to have as much content as a full-DLC CK2. That's a lot of pure content in terms of the map, the events, and so on. I don't think that's necessary for the sequel to be worth the money, either.

What you do expect is for paradox to learn from the process of refining their mechanics over such DLC lifecycles that their consumers supported with $, and to come out with games that are more smartly made, and not basically a regression of their design.

Part of the answer seems to be that Johan really believes that this regressive mana infestation is 'improved' design.
 

Hoggypare

Savant
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
126
Eh. I don't think a new paradox game has to have as much content as a full-DLC CK2. That's a lot of pure content in terms of the map, the events, and so on. I don't think that's necessary for the sequel to be worth the money, either.

What you do expect is for paradox to learn from the process of refining their mechanics over such DLC lifecycles that their consumers supported with $, and to come out with games that are more smartly made, and not basically a regression of their design.

Part of the answer seems to be that Johan really believes that this regressive mana infestation is 'improved' design.

It would be also nice if they were different and at least making an attempt at depicting specific time period. CK2 does that with family/character based gameplay, Victoria II did so superbly with focus on socio-economical matters. For all the shit HoI4 gets, its production and supply system is great and very representative of the era that is WW2.
From what I've seen with imperator, it is just 'the paradox game'. Because of all the abstractions, mana, etc. there seems to be nothing there that actually tries to portray antiquity. People would be fine with less feature-heavy games if there were tailored for the period.
What Paradox seems to not understand (which is exemplified by Johann stating how he sees all similiar government-type nations being the same as 'good thing'), is that people don't play their games for great gameplay (which in most games is serviceable at best), balance, etc. but for history roleplaying. We seem to get less and less of it, with historical events gone from titles like EU and now a their new game stripped of all character and uniqueness of the period.
 

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